Montana wants FBS opponents, but...

[Screamin_Eagle174]

You girls are still bitching about this?

[AZGrizFan]

There is a push by the state to keep the money made from these sort of games in-state. Makes sense, I suppose.

Virginia and South Carolina have both taken that approach. UVA is rotating through Richmond and W&M and USC is rotating through SCSt, Wofford, Furman and El Cid.

USC really steppin' up huh?

[JALMOND]

[
Sounds like the Pflugrad is willing to schedule FBS as long as they are bottom level FBS paying top level FBS prices. Makes me wonder how he would feel if he had taken the PSU job. Still, there is a good point here. If you can get top level FCS to do a home and home, especially from this part of the country, then why also schedule FBS? Either way, it is better than playing Western State every year.

Pflugrad didn't say he wanted to play bottom level FBS teams. He said he wanted to be paid well for paying any FBS team, including the top teams. Learn how to read.

Me thinks you should use your Griz education for something other than cheerleading and grandstanding. Oh, where's that little paragraph. Oh, here it is, and what I take from it in parenthesis.

"But it has to be the right mix. (The game needs to be competitive, no Pac-10 level). And somebody has to say yes and has to pay us. (It has to be top dollar). We don't want to be cannon fodder for Nebraska or Florida or Alabama (funny he didn't say Boise State) just to say we went and played them (the team we play cannot be anywhere near the top 25). I think our players have to get something out of it (they can't just be satisfied with saying we played Notre Dame) and I want it to be a positive experience (the level needs to be close to our level and we need a legitimate shot at winning the game, which excludes at least the top half of FBS). And our administration needs to get something out of it in a paycheck (once again, we need to be paid top dollar to play the bottom half of FBS)."

We have played Pac-10 teams the last few years and have netted at least $1 million dollars in each game (that's after expenses). We also took a money game with Boise State when they were in the midst of their mega-home winning streak when no one (FBS or FCS) wanted to play them and Boise did not take the lead on us until halfway through the fourth quarter (how's that for a "positive experience"). We played at New Mexico for a paltry $300,000 and won the game.

Let me also repeat my closing comments so I do not ruffle many feathers of my Griz friends here. If you are able to secure a home and home with a top level FCS, as Montana has done with Appalachian State, then why would you try to schedule FBS, especially if you don't need the money. Due to the distance involved, not many Big Sky teams can get a home and home with the SoCon or the CAA. If the Griz can do it, then why look at also scheduling FBS? For the rest of us in the Big Sky, Cal Poly or Davis are the best shot we have at getting a home and home.

[GrizFan5]

For challenged readers and dishonest posters like Jalmond, I will show and interpret what Pflugrad said about playing FBS schools:

"... Do you go to just play them? No. You better be able to make more money if you leave Missoula, or straight across even."

[This means that UM has to make more money to leave Missoula to play an FBS school, or play a home-and-home.]

"I want to do a lot of it for recruiting purposes and go put our product on the market a little bit more than it's been done in the last few years."

[Outside of Montana, UM recruits primarily in California, Washington, Oregon, Arizona and Colorado.]

"When Don (Read) was here, we bumped up a whole bunch. I think more than anybody in the league, I really do. I think back, and we beat Oregon State twice. We played Oregon very well. We played Washington State twice. We played Kansas State. And those are all good teams. Washington State had a guy named Bledsoe. So we challenged ourselves, and I want to continue to do that."

[Note that all of those schools are in the PAC-10 and Big-12. Note that he said he wants to continue to do that.]

"And somebody has to say yes and has to pay us. We don't want to be cannon fodder for Nebraska or Florida or Alabama just to say we went and played them. I think our players have to get something out of it and I want it to be a positive experience. And our administration needs to get something out of it in a paycheck."

[This means that he will play these schools if they pay UM the right/big price. It means it has to be a good school and place where UM would enjoy going.]


Jalmond, feel free to list all of the "bottom level FBS" teams in UM's recruiting area that you think will pay UM more than it can make in Missoula.

Jalmond, feel free to just admit that you were wrong, and that you posted very dishonestly about what Pflugrad said.

[putter]

WSU is playing Montana St this year. I wonder if they were contacted by Missoula for a game. That is a very winnable game for the Cats, as well as it would have been for the Griz..

[kemajic]

119-23 - Montana since 2000
59-10 - Montana through 2005-2009
10 playoff appearances, 1 NC, 5 NC appearances

101-33 - ASU since 2000
61-12 - ASU through 2005-2009
8 playoff appearances, 3 NC, 3 NC appearances

Those are the stats I put together.. Montana is the team of this decade, without question. More wins than any other team. I'm not saying App is a bad team, and not a team that you couldn't hang your hat on, but when it comes to FCS football, it's hard to argue that Montana isn't at the top. GSU has history behind it (a dominant 80s and 90s team), but they've fallen totally off the map. ASU.. they're real good now, but where will they be next year? Or the year after? It's all about sustainability. In similar respect, Grand Valley State is the gold standard of D2, Mount Union in D3.

Weigh your stats.

3 championships is far, far, far greater than 1....... The other stats don't really matter NEARLY as much, do they? Again, your number of "championship appearances" is impressive. But, no school other than Montana (and Ohio State in FBS) brags about "championship appearances." Your championship game win % is terrible. TERRIBLE.

And, every sports fan in the country has heard of Appalachian State. Outside of the Pacific Northwest... very few are familiar with Montana.

All time = Georgia Southern
Current = Appalachian State
Honorary = Nova
"Championship Appearances" = Montana

Montana and APPSt have played head to head this decade. What are the results?

Montana is in the top 50 of all NCAA FB programs for logo and gear sales. It follows directly that no one has ever heard of them.

[kemajic]

Ask 100 average fans across America who is the "flagship" FCS team and the answer will be ASU. If you look at ASU vs. Montana in the FCS it would be really close, as for team of the decade ASU - three titles and the all-time best FCS win over the FBS, nuf said.

Michigan only paid ASU $400K. LSU paid ASU $750K. ASU has accepted minimal payouts from Hawaii and Wyoming, so the distance excuse doesn't hold up.

News flash top 25 FBS teams aren't scared to play FCS opponents no matter the name. If Florida, Va Tech, UGA, etc. will schedule one of the top PAC 10 teams will schedule Montana, tell your AD to pick up the phone.

Like some other posters have said, I'm not sure if you ask 100 "average" fans if they can even name an FCS team, Montana and Appy St included, let alone know that they are in FCS (assuming they even know something like FCS exists).

But as for the article, teams aren't scared to play Montana - that's silly. Teams like Florida and the Penn St's will play anyone. Money, however, is the big deal, and it's understandable that Montana, who makes $600k per home game, would need more than that to go play an FBS team. That means the list of FBS teams who can pay that is significantly reduced. I'm sure a team like Wyoming might be scared to play Montana, but Montana wouldn't be getting more than $600k from them to play so it's a moot point anyway. The teams that can pay more than $600k aren't going to be running scared.

Wyoming is 13-0 against Montana. I'm sure they are petrified...

[SUUTbird]

Man its like watching a daytime soap opera reading this thread . Anyways it just seems that what Pflugrad is saying is near impossible to get. How many teams can you think of that Montana could be competitive with, get a big paycheck but arent in the upper tier of FBS? You are looking at a very narrow window if anything so if Montana is going to play an FBS team Pflugrad is going to have to tweak his standards a little . However i think if Montana can schedule a home and home with some very good FCS competition then i dont see the need for this to happen at all, its just when teams like Western State come along that something needs to change.

[GrizFan5]

Man its like watching a daytime soap opera reading this thread . Anyways it just seems that what Pflugrad is saying is near impossible to get. How many teams can you think of that Montana could be competitive with, get a big paycheck but arent in the upper tier of FBS? You are looking at a very narrow window if anything so if Montana is going to play an FBS team Pflugrad is going to have to tweak his standards a little . However i think if Montana can schedule a home and home with some very good FCS competition then i dont see the need for this to happen at all, its just when teams like Western State come along that something needs to change.

SUUBird, Montana's coach didn't say those things. That's what Jalmond said.

Pflugrad didn't say the UM wanted or needed to play teams not in the upper tier of FBS. In fact to the contrary, he said he wanted to play where UM recruited. UM's primary recruiting areas are California, Washington and Oregon. That's largely PAC-10 territory.

Pflugrad didn't even use the word "competitive", or say anything about the quality of opponents.

[Saint3333]

As for the $$$ aspect of playing these games, ASU makes between $450K-$600K per home game based upon ticket revenues doing the quick math, yet they continue to play FBS teams each year which are less or equal to these amounts (before travel costs). Why does ASU do this? It is because there are intangibles to playing these games for both the fans and the players. Given the demand for the prior FBS games there is a premium placed on obtaining these tickets which are given out based upon Yosef points (awarded for donations and life-time giving). They also help with recruiting in 2009 Jerry Moore walked into recruits homes and was able to tell them they'd have an opportunity to place at the Swamp, UGA, and Va Tech and historically we've played Michigan, LSU, NCSU, and ECU. Sounds pretty good for those tweener lower level FBS/high FCS recruits.

[GrizFan5]

As for the $$$ aspect of playing these games, ASU makes between $450K-$600K per home game based upon ticket revenues doing the quick math, yet they continue to play FBS teams each year which are less or equal to these amounts (before travel costs). Why does ASU do this? It is because there are intangibles to playing these games for both the fans and the players. Given the demand for the prior FBS games there is a premium placed on obtaining these tickets which are given out based upon Yosef points (awarded for donations and life-time giving). They also help with recruiting in 2009 Jerry Moore walked into recruits homes and was able to tell them they'd have an opportunity to place at the Swamp, UGA, and Va Tech and historically we've played Michigan, LSU, NCSU, and ECU. Sounds pretty good for those tweener lower level FBS/high FCS recruits.

Let's see your math on that estimate of home game net revenue for App St. That can't possibly be accurate. It's way too high. Were you estimating revenue or net revenue? Any App St fans who know?

That range looks close to what Montana makes for home games, and perhaps a bit on the high side (except for the MSU game). Montana had $4.7 million of football revenue in the '08-'09 fiscal year. App St has $3.3 million of football revenue that fiscal year. According to the Equity in Athletics DOE website.

[89Hen]

pay UM more than it can make in Missoula.

What is that amount?

[89Hen]

As for the $$$ aspect of playing these games, ASU makes between $450K-$600K per home game based upon ticket revenues doing the quick math, yet they continue to play FBS teams each year which are less or equal to these amounts (before travel costs).

Everyone points out travel costs for away games, but what about the costs for home games? Ticket takers, security, ambulance staff, press box staff/extras, transportation, trash collection, etc....

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

As for the $$$ aspect of playing these games, ASU makes between $450K-$600K per home game based upon ticket revenues doing the quick math, yet they continue to play FBS teams each year which are less or equal to these amounts (before travel costs).

Everyone points out travel costs for away games, but what about the costs for home games? Ticket takers, security, ambulance staff, press box staff/extras, transportation, trash collection, etc....

Montana CLEARED a little over $700,000 on last years Western State game.

[89Hen]

Montana CLEARED a little over $700,000 on last years Western State game.

Paying Western State $30,000 sure makes it cheap, doesn't it?

[Silenoz]

Montana CLEARED a little over $700,000 on last years Western State game.

Paying Western State $30,000 sure makes it cheap, doesn't it?

How else is UM supposed to pay rent to UM

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Montana CLEARED a little over $700,000 on last years Western State game.

Paying Western State $30,000 sure makes it cheap, doesn't it?

Yes.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

This is the thread that doesn't end. Yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people, just started talkin' shit not knowing what it was, and they'll be talkin' it forever just because this is the thread that doesn't end....

[BearIt]

As for the $$$ aspect of playing these games, ASU makes between $450K-$600K per home game based upon ticket revenues doing the quick math, yet they continue to play FBS teams each year which are less or equal to these amounts (before travel costs). Why does ASU do this? It is because there are intangibles to playing these games for both the fans and the players. Given the demand for the prior FBS games there is a premium placed on obtaining these tickets which are given out based upon Yosef points (awarded for donations and life-time giving). They also help with recruiting in 2009 Jerry Moore walked into recruits homes and was able to tell them they'd have an opportunity to place at the Swamp, UGA, and Va Tech and historically we've played Michigan, LSU, NCSU, and ECU. Sounds pretty good for those tweener lower level FBS/high FCS recruits.

It's great that the ASU admin allows them to play those games. I would love to see Wyoming, Colorado State, Idaho, Utah state, ect. on our schedule, but with out the money our Admin won't do it. The University Admin won't allow it unless it equals or is greater that we make at home. I agree that there are advantages to playing those games, but the dollar is the bottom line at Montana. I think it's pretty easy to determine that from the article. When you look at how much money the U sucks out of the football program it's evident that they have to maximize their earning potential. The U does things like charge rent for the use of facilities, they charge fees to the atheletic department to support other building projects on campus that are not related to athletics and they certainly don't give the department any money earned from sales of Griz logo wear. I hoping some of this philosophy this changes with the new incoming president, but I won't hold my breath. Until then we'll be playing Western State until Washington state coughs up $750,000 for us to play them.

I forgot to add, those teams listed are scared of us anyway

[GrizFan5]

[quote="Ursus A. Horribilis
Montana CLEARED a little over $700,000 on last years Western State game.[/quote]

This is not true. In fact, it's not even close to being accurate. I believe the face value of a Western St. ticket last year was $29. The actual amount charged was more because of processing and costs related to actually printing the ticket. I believe there are about 5,000 or so non-revenue tickets that go to students (maybe 4,000 or so), players, others who get free tickets, sponsors, etc. I don't think the students are charged anything for tickets.

Okay, let's round and take 20,000 revenue seats times $30. (20,000 is probably slightly low and $30 is slightly high). That is $600,000 of ticket revenue--before paying related costs of having the game.

Obviously, there's no way that UM netted $700,000 for that game.

It's my impression that UM nets in the range of $400,000-$600,000 for games, except for Homecoming and the Bobcat games. For those games, tickets are $50 or $55, and thus there's more revenue and the stadium is extra-packed. The Cat game also nets tv revenue. In the past, I had heard that the Cat games nets about $1 million.

[grizzaholic]

[quote="Ursus A. Horribilis
Montana CLEARED a little over $700,000 on last years Western State game.

This is not true. In fact, it's not even close to being accurate. I believe the face value of a Western St. ticket last year was $29. The actual amount charged was more because of processing and costs related to actually printing the ticket. I believe there are about 5,000 or so non-revenue tickets that go to students (maybe 4,000 or so), players, others who get free tickets, sponsors, etc. I don't think the students are charged anything for tickets.

Okay, let's round and take 20,000 revenue seats times $30. (20,000 is probably slightly low and $30 is slightly high). That is $600,000 of ticket revenue--before paying related costs of having the game.

Obviously, there's no way that UM netted $700,000 for that game.

It's my impression that UM nets in the range of $400,000-$600,000 for games, except for Homecoming and the Bobcat games. For those games, tickets are $50 or $55, and thus there's more revenue and the stadium is extra-packed. The Cat game also nets tv revenue. In the past, I had heard that the Cat games nets about $1 million.[/quote]

Before you get on your stool and say that this or that is "not even close to being accurate" you might not want to use the words/phrases in your response.

I believe
probably
in the range
I heard
I think
Let's round



Just a suggestion.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

This is not true. In fact, it's not even close to being accurate. I believe the face value of a Western St. ticket last year was $29. The actual amount charged was more because of processing and costs related to actually printing the ticket. I believe there are about 5,000 or so non-revenue tickets that go to students (maybe 4,000 or so), players, others who get free tickets, sponsors, etc. I don't think the students are charged anything for tickets.

Okay, let's round and take 20,000 revenue seats times $30. (20,000 is probably slightly low and $30 is slightly high). That is $600,000 of ticket revenue--before paying related costs of having the game.

Obviously, there's no way that UM netted $700,000 for that game.

It's my impression that UM nets in the range of $400,000-$600,000 for games, except for Homecoming and the Bobcat games. For those games, tickets are $50 or $55, and thus there's more revenue and the stadium is extra-packed. The Cat game also nets tv revenue. In the past, I had heard that the Cat games nets about $1 million.

You are incorrect. You are not adding in the boxes, the parking, etc..

There are reports filed after each game that show what the actual expenses are right down to the nitty gritty (i.e. police, ambulance, and every little expense) as well as what is truly made as far as each game goes. With all that taken into account we cleared somewhere around 3/4 million on the Western State game. If I can think of what the report is called I'll share it with ya. Chizzang can back me up on it's existence as he got a look at it himself.

You take great interest in these matters I've noticed and you talk from a point of view of someone that truly has an inside track on the information (at least you come off that way) so if you know somebody in the Athletic Dept. then I'm sure you could ask them about these reports. I assume they fall under public information.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

This is not true. In fact, it's not even close to being accurate. I believe the face value of a Western St. ticket last year was $29. The actual amount charged was more because of processing and costs related to actually printing the ticket. I believe there are about 5,000 or so non-revenue tickets that go to students (maybe 4,000 or so), players, others who get free tickets, sponsors, etc. I don't think the students are charged anything for tickets.

Okay, let's round and take 20,000 revenue seats times $30. (20,000 is probably slightly low and $30 is slightly high). That is $600,000 of ticket revenue--before paying related costs of having the game.

Obviously, there's no way that UM netted $700,000 for that game.

It's my impression that UM nets in the range of $400,000-$600,000 for games, except for Homecoming and the Bobcat games. For those games, tickets are $50 or $55, and thus there's more revenue and the stadium is extra-packed. The Cat game also nets tv revenue. In the past, I had heard that the Cat games nets about $1 million.

Before you get on your stool and say that this or that is "not even close to being accurate" you might not want to use the words/phrases in your response.

I believe
probably
in the range
I heard
I think
Let's round



Just a suggestion

And I hope I didn't use those qualifiers in my retort.

[clenz]

You are incorrect. You are not adding in the boxes, the parking, etc..

There are reports filed after each game that show what the actual expenses are right down to the nitty gritty (i.e. police, ambulance, and every little expense) as well as what is truly made as far as each game goes. With all that taken into account we cleared somewhere around 3/4 million on the Western State game. If I can think of what the report is called I'll share it with ya. Chizzang can back me up on it's existence as he got a look at it himself.

You take great interest in these matters I've noticed and you talk from a point of view of someone that truly has an inside track on the information (at least you come off that way) so if you know somebody in the Athletic Dept. then I'm sure you could ask them about these reports. I assume they fall under public information.

Ursus is right. People always assume university money stops at tickets. That isn't true. Other sources of revenue for the school include, but are not limited too: parking, programs, consessions, advertising during the game, advertising during radio/tv broadcasts, ATM fees, and the list can go on and on.


UNI doesn't charge for parking, but if we did I can promise we break even as a football program.

[GrizFan5]

I talked to the athletic dept right before I made my last post.

Tickets from the suites were included in my calculation. The suites are not leased by game; they are leased by the season. It's my understanding that a good chunk of non-ticket revenue per game does not go to the athletic department.

Feel free to show us the supposed game by game report of revenues and expenses.

Come on guys. How can the U possibly net more than it grosses?

Here's a quote from the UM AD in a 3/10/10 Missoulian article:

"This year, the UM football team played one less home game, which was a loss of $500,000, O'Day said."

That says to me that UM nets about $500,0000 for an average (non-Homecoming, non-Bobcat) game.