CA separates eldery gay couple, sells off possessions

[dbackjon]

This can't be real, can it?

http://www.bilerico.com/2010/04/sonoma_ ... le_and.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Clay and his partner of 20 years, Harold, lived in California. Clay and Harold made diligent efforts to protect their legal rights, and had their legal paperwork in place--wills, powers of attorney, and medical directives, all naming each other. Harold was 88 years old and in frail medical condition, but still living at home with Clay, 77, who was in good health.

One evening, Harold fell down the front steps of their home and was taken to the hospital. Based on their medical directives alone, Clay should have been consulted in Harold's care from the first moment. Tragically, county and health care workers instead refused to allow Clay to see Harold in the hospital. The county then ultimately went one step further by isolating the couple from each other, placing the men in separate nursing homes.

Ignoring Clay's significant role in Harold's life, the county continued to treat Harold like he had no family and went to court seeking the power to make financial decisions on his behalf. Outrageously, the county represented to the judge that Clay was merely Harold's "roommate." The court denied their efforts, but did grant the county limited access to one of Harold's bank accounts to pay for his care.

What happened next is even more chilling.

Without authority, without determining the value of Clay and Harold's possessions accumulated over the course of their 20 years together or making any effort to determine which items belonged to whom, the county took everything Harold and Clay owned and auctioned off all of their belongings. Adding further insult to grave injury, the county removed Clay from his home and confined him to a nursing home against his will. The county workers then terminated Clay and Harold's lease and surrendered the home they had shared for many years to the landlord.


Three months after he was hospitalized, Harold died in the nursing home. Because of the county's actions, Clay missed the final months he should have had with his partner of 20 years. Compounding this tragedy, Clay has literally nothing left of the home he had shared with Harold or the life he was living up until the day that Harold fell, because he has been unable to recover any of his property. The only memento Clay has is a photo album that Harold painstakingly put together for Clay during the last three months of his life.

With the help of a dedicated and persistent court-appointed attorney, Anne Dennis of Santa Rosa, Clay was finally released from the nursing home. Ms. Dennis, along with Stephen O'Neill and Margaret Flynn of Tarkington, O'Neill, Barrack & Chong, now represent Clay in a lawsuit against the county, the auction company, and the nursing home, with technical assistance from NCLR. A trial date has been set for July 16, 2010 in the Superior Court for the County of Sonoma.

[Col Hogan]

Absolutely unbelievable....

And an example of what happens when we give government so much power...

[dbackjon]

Absolutely unbelievable....

And an example of what happens when we give government so much power...

And discriminate against one set of the population. This would have have happened to a hetero couple.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Absolutely unbelievable....

And an example of what happens when we give government so much power...

And discriminate against one set of the population. This would have have happened to a hetero couple.

I'm not sure dback as there are some murky parts in the writing here. I can tell you that nothing you own except for your house & a vehicle seems to be off limits when one partner goes into the nursing home. I just watched my grandpa go through this over the last year and a half. Ironically, while my grandma was in the nursing home he too fell and had to go in to another nursing home for a couple of weeks. Not the same care facility she was in but another one and the fact that this is a town so fucking small that I couldn't even believe they had two homes. I would need more clarity on this to see if this any different because of the two being gay but I can't see that as of yet.

The fact that they had accumulated things together probably made it even tougher for one party to hold on to the property. Anything transferred between the two parties in the last 5 yrs. previous to admittance to a care facility is still up for grabs if I remember right.

[grizzaholic]

And people want MORE govt. control.

[native]

And people want MORE govt. control.

NOT ME, brotha!

And while I cannot agree with all of jonboy's agenda, I certainly agree that consenting adults in sound mind should be able to consummate contracts and make end of life arrangements as they themselves see fit.

[dbackjon]

And discriminate against one set of the population. This would have have happened to a hetero couple.

I'm not sure dback as there are some murky parts in the writing here. I can tell you that nothing you own except for your house & a vehicle seems to be off limits when one partner goes into the nursing home. I just watched my grandpa go through this over the last year and a half. Ironically, while my grandma was in the nursing home he too fell and had to go in to another nursing home for a couple of weeks. Not the same care facility she was in but another one and the fact that this is a town so fucking small that I couldn't even believe they had two homes. I would need more clarity on this to see if this any different because of the two being gay but I can't see that as of yet.

The fact that they had accumulated things together probably made it even tougher for one party to hold on to the property. Anything transferred between the two parties in the last 5 yrs. previous to admittance to a care facility is still up for grabs if I remember right.

The two items that stick out most are the fact that they were separated and not allowed contact - that would definately not happen if they were hetero married.

Second, the county would not be able to claim all of the possessions as belonging to only one - they lost EVERYTHING they owned.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I'm not sure dback as there are some murky parts in the writing here. I can tell you that nothing you own except for your house & a vehicle seems to be off limits when one partner goes into the nursing home. I just watched my grandpa go through this over the last year and a half. Ironically, while my grandma was in the nursing home he too fell and had to go in to another nursing home for a couple of weeks. Not the same care facility she was in but another one and the fact that this is a town so fucking small that I couldn't even believe they had two homes. I would need more clarity on this to see if this any different because of the two being gay but I can't see that as of yet.

The fact that they had accumulated things together probably made it even tougher for one party to hold on to the property. Anything transferred between the two parties in the last 5 yrs. previous to admittance to a care facility is still up for grabs if I remember right.

The two items that stick out most are the fact that they were separated and not allowed contact - that would definately not happen if they were hetero married.

Second, the county would not be able to claim all of the possessions as belonging to only one - they lost EVERYTHING they owned.

Those are two of the points that seem murky to me at this point. Did they own real property? It doesn't appear so as the house went back to the landlord. If the county took their possessions then it may have been under some sort of asset seizure to pay for the care facilities and as far as the keeping apart thing I am also not clear if this was done because someone had a problem with their preference or if they just needed different kinds of care and were separated on that basis. It seems there may be a couple of explanations for this and I am wondering how this will play out in court. I mean if both partners specifically want to see each other and have indicated that in the contract then how can they keep that from happening. It seems too easy that it could just be someone in the system prohibiting it but I'm sure we'll find out more.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I'm not sure dback as there are some murky parts in the writing here. I can tell you that nothing you own except for your house & a vehicle seems to be off limits when one partner goes into the nursing home. I just watched my grandpa go through this over the last year and a half. Ironically, while my grandma was in the nursing home he too fell and had to go in to another nursing home for a couple of weeks. Not the same care facility she was in but another one and the fact that this is a town so fucking small that I couldn't even believe they had two homes. I would need more clarity on this to see if this any different because of the two being gay but I can't see that as of yet.

The fact that they had accumulated things together probably made it even tougher for one party to hold on to the property. Anything transferred between the two parties in the last 5 yrs. previous to admittance to a care facility is still up for grabs if I remember right.

The two items that stick out most are the fact that they were separated and not allowed contact - that would definately not happen if they were hetero married.

Second, the county would not be able to claim all of the possessions as belonging to only one - they lost EVERYTHING they owned.

As far as losing everything they owned then as far as I know anybody will lose everything they own if their late life medical costs goes beyond their assets. You get to keep your car and your home (if you own it) off the table but everything else is up for grabs until/if medicare kicks in on the bill which doesn't happen until certain assets are depleted. Honestly Jon my Granpa had to write a $6,000 check every month for over a year and almost lost his mineral rights on a farm in E. Montana before Medicare came in with anything on it. It did kick in in the last few months of my Grandmother's life at the home.

[dbackjon]

Maybe you missed this:

The county then ultimately went one step further by isolating the couple from each other, placing the men in separate nursing homes.

Ignoring Clay's significant role in Harold's life, the county continued to treat Harold like he had no family and went to court seeking the power to make financial decisions on his behalf.

[bobbythekidd]

As far as losing everything they owned then as far as I know anybody will lose everything they own if their late life medical costs goes beyond their assets. You get to keep your car and your home (if you own it) off the table but everything else is up for grabs until/if medicare kicks in on the bill which doesn't happen until certain assets are depleted. Honestly Jon my Granpa had to write a $6,000 check every month for over a year and almost lost his mineral rights on a farm in E. Montana before Medicare came in with anything on it. It did kick in in the last few months of my Grandmother's life at the home.

That sounds cruel, but that is how it should be. You are responsible for your care and medicare kicks in only when you can't care for yourself anymore.

I'm still digesting this couples' story, so I won't comment on that just yet.

[travelinman67]

Absolutely unbelievable....

And an example of what happens when we give government so much power...

And discriminate against one set of the population. This would have have happened to a hetero couple.

Wrong.

Separating the two was the only mistake I see made.

In elderly law cases, if the two are not capable of caring for themselves, the state (county) takes over as conservators. As was in this case, it's common for the county to place the couple in a skilled nursing facility, though normally, the couple is kept together.

Unless they have insurance or the financial means to pay for the SNF care, the conservator (county) auctions off their possesions and the funds are turned over to Medi-Cal who then pays for the SNF care. I've witnessed this numerous times.

It's a tragedy the two were separated, but everything else appears to be SOP. This is the way California "rolls".

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Maybe you missed this:

The county then ultimately went one step further by isolating the couple from each other, placing the men in separate nursing homes.

Ignoring Clay's significant role in Harold's life, the county continued to treat Harold like he had no family and went to court seeking the power to make financial decisions on his behalf.

No I didn't miss that and is why I say I'm not sure what went down with this yet. It says isolated as if it was specifically to keep them apart (it may be but it could be something else also) and the going to court to take control of financial decisions is what is going to be a tough one to get around for the county since they had a contract in effect for this type of thing. They may not have a choice in the financial decisions anyway due to the costs that may have been accrued already. Like I said...can't tell what the story really is yet.

If they were kept apart because they were a gay couple then they will have to answer for that monetarily.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

As far as losing everything they owned then as far as I know anybody will lose everything they own if their late life medical costs goes beyond their assets. You get to keep your car and your home (if you own it) off the table but everything else is up for grabs until/if medicare kicks in on the bill which doesn't happen until certain assets are depleted. Honestly Jon my Granpa had to write a $6,000 check every month for over a year and almost lost his mineral rights on a farm in E. Montana before Medicare came in with anything on it. It did kick in in the last few months of my Grandmother's life at the home.

That sounds cruel, but that is how it should be. You are responsible for your care and medicare kicks in only when you can't care for yourself anymore.

I'm still digesting this couples' story, so I won't comment on that just yet.

It does seem cruel btk but I agree with you and that's in spite of the struggle I saw my Dad and Grandpa going through over the last couple years. It's tough but what else can be done.

[travelinman67]

Maybe you missed this:

The county then ultimately went one step further by isolating the couple from each other, placing the men in separate nursing homes.

Ignoring Clay's significant role in Harold's life, the county continued to treat Harold like he had no family and went to court seeking the power to make financial decisions on his behalf.

No I didn't miss that and is why I say I'm not sure what went down with this yet. It says isolated as if it was specifically to keep them apart (it may be but it could be something else also) and the going to court to take control of financial decisions is what is going to be a tough one to get around for the county since they had a contract in effect for this type of thing. They may not have a choice in the financial decisions anyway due to the costs that may have been accrued already. Like I said...can't tell what the story really is yet.

If they were kept apart because they were a gay couple then they will have to answer for that monetarily.

First of all, if their assets were separate, then the liquidated residual may have influenced the type and cost of the SNF chosen for each of them. Now, had they been married, and IF assets were combined (not a given, is dependent on any other type of community property situation where assets brought into the marriage or inherited are separate unless stipulated in a Durable Power of Attorney contract), their assets would influence placement. Remember, though, these same laws apply to hetero married couples. My own grandparents on my mother's side received different levels of care based upon their needs (not financial means), and as such, were at different facilities. This is not uncommon. (...and quite honestly, I think my grandmother appreciated not having her husband around to bother her... )

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

If these guys voted democrat all their lives and wanted bigger government and all the special treatment they think they deserve and this really happened then GOOD! Government shoves it in their ass and breaks it off.


If that isnt the case and these guys were decent conservatives then I feel really bad for them and this once again proves what we already know, government is in it for themselves and can take take take anytime they see fit.

As for this not happening to a hetero couple thats just stupid, similar situations have already happened many times it just doesnt get any play because nobody cares about straight people anymore.

[polsongrizz]

If these guys voted democrat all their lives and wanted bigger government and all the special treatment they think they deserve and this really happened then GOOD! Government shoves it in their ass and breaks it off.


If that isnt the case and these guys were decent conservatives then I feel really bad for them and this once again proves what we already know, government is in it for themselves and can take take take anytime they see fit.

As for this not happening to a hetero couple thats just stupid, similar situations have already happened many times it just doesnt get any play because nobody cares about straight people anymore.

These two were smarter than you think melon head. They were also the local leaders of the Triumphs Suck Club.

[death dealer]

I'm going through the same thing with my parents right now. They are both 70. My dad has early onset alzheimers (since he was 56), and my mom has ALS. My dad actually does very well, he has more physical limitations than mental, and he does take lots longer to process change than normal. But he knows who he is, knows who we all are, and can actually do pretty well. He also can't hear shit or see shit, but that's been that way forever and he won't wear glasses or a hearing aid. He also suffers from chronic stubborn-as-shit-itis. My mom is actually doing very well, but she can't speak or communicate very well and won't use her speech aids like she should, so people mistake her disability with communication with some sort of dementia. They also just get frustrated with her and treat her like shit.

Anyway, they are attached at the hip. Been together for 52 years. They are common law married since their parents didn't approve of their union. They "ran off" when they were young. My dad comes from a scotch irish farmer background, my mom from a souther jewish merchant family. Since they are not "married" there have been some issues with living wills, medical rights, etc. Fortunately, they have us kids to handle it all, but if they didn't have us, I think they might be in a similar situation to this couple.

It's a damn shame. These guys sound like they got caught by several different biases. They're old, poor, gay, and have no family to advocate for them. Terrible story. Makes me sad for our society that this sort of shit happens.

[YoUDeeMan]

Fortunately, they have us kids to handle it all, but if they didn't have us, I think they might be in a similar situation to this couple.

It's a damn shame. These guys sound like they got caught by several different biases. They're old, poor, gay, and have no family to advocate for them. Terrible story. Makes me sad for our society that this sort of **** happens.

Death Dealer, it sounds as if your family is doing things right...you are there in some form or another to help out your parents. Good for you.

On the other side of the coin, the situation of today's older folks is a direct result of the "American Dream" where everyone has a house in the suburbs, several cars in every gargage, big screen TVs, etc. Yup, gather up all the possessions you can get while stressing individuality and breaking up the family unit.

People want to move away from home and then complain when their parents aren't taken care of by the government. Too funny!

[death dealer]

Fortunately, they have us kids to handle it all, but if they didn't have us, I think they might be in a similar situation to this couple.

It's a damn shame. These guys sound like they got caught by several different biases. They're old, poor, gay, and have no family to advocate for them. Terrible story. Makes me sad for our society that this sort of **** happens.

Death Dealer, it sounds as if your family is doing things right...you are there in some form or another to help out your parents. Good for you.

On the other side of the coin, the situation of today's older folks is a direct result of the "American Dream" where everyone has a house in the suburbs, several cars in every gargage, big screen TVs, etc. Yup, gather up all the possessions you can get while stressing individuality and breaking up the family unit.

People want to move away from home and then complain when their parents aren't taken care of by the government. Too funny!

I can't fault the emphasis on individuality Clucky. Without it, i wouldn't exist. My parents would have never been a couple if they had just towed the line of their parents wishes. My father's family didn't want him marrying some Jewish girl, and my mom's family sure didn't want her marrying some Irish goy. So they shacked-up without either family's consent (of course, by the time I came along, everyone had kissed and made-up). I never remember not being around all the family at holidays, etc.

But, it doesn't sound like these guys were unprepared. They had taken steps to insure that they would be able to help one another. This situatuion is very disturbing. It very much reeks of someone in a position of power taking exception to their lifestyle, and making thier lives hell. Sad. This si what you get when the govt. has so much power in your personal life.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

If these guys voted democrat all their lives and wanted bigger government and all the special treatment they think they deserve and this really happened then GOOD! Government shoves it in their ass and breaks it off.


If that isnt the case and these guys were decent conservatives then I feel really bad for them and this once again proves what we already know, government is in it for themselves and can take take take anytime they see fit.

As for this not happening to a hetero couple thats just stupid, similar situations have already happened many times it just doesnt get any play because nobody cares about straight people anymore.

These two were smarter than you think melon head. They were also the local leaders of the Triumphs Suck Club.

I hope the next mixed drink you order, is stirred with the bartenders cock.

Dont ever say another disparaging word about the finest sport touring motorcycles made.

[polsongrizz]

These two were smarter than you think melon head. They were also the local leaders of the Triumphs Suck Club.

I hope the next mixed drink you order, is stirred with the bartenders cock.

Dont ever say another disparaging word about the finest sport touring motorcycles made.

How do you think I stirred your drink at the last tailgate.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

I hope the next mixed drink you order, is stirred with the bartenders cock.

Dont ever say another disparaging word about the finest sport touring motorcycles made.

How do you think I stirred your drink at the last tailgate.

You wouldn't have done it though if Grizo weren't there to clean the straw.

[polsongrizz]

How do you think I stirred your drink at the last tailgate.

You wouldn't have done it though if Grizo weren't there to clean the straw.

That's true, but I had promised him earlier it was all his. Thanks for reminding me of that and bringing a crystal ball clarity to the occasion. It is food for thought though once football starts again.

[JMU DJ]

. My father's family didn't want him marrying some Jewish girl, and my mom's family sure didn't want her marrying some Irish goy. So they shacked-up without either family's consent (of course, by the time I came along, everyone had kissed and made-up). I never remember not being around all the family at holidays, etc.

Sounds just like my parents/family... except for the ailment issues. They're younger and Alzheimer runs on my fathers side of the family...



... I'm not a lawyer, nor do I know much about law, but with all the legal precautions these two set up, it seems like the county broke the law here.