Tonight I'm Embarrassed at our Government...

[FargoBison]

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congressional budget scorekeepers say a Medicare fix that Democrats included in earlier versions of their health care bill would push it into the red.

The Congressional Budget Office said Friday that rolling back a programmed cut in Medicare fees to doctors would cost $208 billion over 10 years. If added back to the health care overhaul bill, it would wipe out all the deficit reduction, leaving the legislation $59 billion in the red.

The so-called doc fix was part of the original House bill. Because of its high cost, Democrats decided to pursue it separately. Republicans say the cost should not be ignored. Congress has usually waived the cuts to doctors year by year.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Medicare- ... l?x=0&.v=2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That was just one exposed gimmick that was pointed out in the Op Ed from the NY Times. But that is a biased source that could never be accurate. Who is the dumbass, any Dem that liked this bill.

[FargoBison]

An opinion piece is a few paragraphs in the back of a newspaper.

The CBO estimate is a thick booklet with hundreds of man hours of research put out by a nonpartisan organization.

See the difference, dumbass............?

Oh, wait. You're the guy that posts chain emails as substance.

So, is the "opinion" wrong? Or would you rather, as usual, attack the messenger?

The answer, unfortunately, is that the budget office is required to take written legislation at face value and not second-guess the plausibility of what it is handed. So fantasy in, fantasy out.

In reality, if you strip out all the gimmicks and budgetary games and rework the calculus, a wholly different picture emerges: The health care reform legislation would raise, not lower, federal deficits, by $562 billion.

Yeah I would like to know if it is wrong as well. Skelly can write it off if he wants but the guy that wrote the Op Ed is the former director of the CBO. He might lean right but he brought up some points, one of which I just backed up in the AP article I posted.

[AZGrizFan]

What this government did is just really unbelievable. I'm not sure on either side on this issue but I am sure of this dawg ank skelly...you guys are not at all concerned that this was done against the wishes of the populace and since it goes along with what you have been advocating you are not only fine with it but gleeful over it.

This was done at a time when we are pretty short on cash and so deeply in debt that it ain't funny and the democrats did not do a good job of selling this before forcing the country to pay for it.

This was a huge mistake and I am pretty sure that going against the wishes of so many is gonna kill em'.

IT WASN'T DONE AGAINST THE WISHES OF THE POPULACE.

The populace gets to express their will by voting.

Obama and Democrats have not hidden their will to reform health care.

The Democratic primaries and general election bored the shit out of me with the hours and hours of rambling all the candidates did about health care reform.

Healthcare reform was a cornerstone of Obama's campaign. The American public elected him. Obama and the Democrats enact the policies they ran on. It's not against the wishes of the populace.

America didn't vote for this crap. And it's a whole different country than it was in October/November of 2008. Even a dumbass like you ought to be able to see that.

[AZGrizFan]

So, is the "opinion" wrong? Or would you rather, as usual, attack the messenger?

Yeah I would like to know if it is wrong as well. Skelly can write it off if he wants but the guy that wrote is the former director of the CBO.

KY will write it off because, much like the Rassmussen polls, they don't fit into his narrow little window of beliefs, so he blocks it out. For a 17-year old, he sure has a closed mind about things.

[Fresno St. Alum]

I have a question, I have family members that are an x-ray tech making 86K a year in Fresno and another that is a RN that makes over 100K a year. Since health care is being taken over by the government will they all take big pay cuts. I also have a couple of friends who are doctors, 1 in Australia. He said the residents make more there than in USA but the doctors here make a lot more than those in Australia. He's moving back to the US to make more money when he's finished his residency.

[Skjellyfetti]

America didn't vote for this crap. And it's a whole different country than it was in October/November of 2008. Even a dumbass like you ought to be able to see that.

America did vote for it. Obama campaigned on a much, much more liberal version of health care reform. And America (overwhelmingly) voted him to be President.

And it's not a whole different country than it was in 2008. Deep breaths, old man. Don't get too worked up.

[FargoBison]

America voted for Obama because the Republicans failed, not because they liked his health care plan. In fact the more they heard about his plans, the less the American people have liked them.

[AZGrizFan]

America didn't vote for this crap. And it's a whole different country than it was in October/November of 2008. Even a dumbass like you ought to be able to see that.

America did vote for it. Obama campaigned on a much, much more liberal version of health care reform. And America (overwhelmingly) voted him to be President.

And it's not a whole different country than it was in 2008. Deep breaths, old man. Don't get too worked up.

Yeah. We're only committed to ANOTHER $1.5 trillion that we hadn't planned on when he was elected.

No difference there, right?

Are you REALLY that naive?

[Fresno St. Alum]

I'm a Dem. but I tend to hate both sides because they are both dirty thieves. I remember Obama saying at the last state of the union that he was gonna put the health care plan on the back burner because the people have spoken and getting new jobs for the economy and erasing the debt were important to us but he fuckin lied like I knew he would to push his agenda.

[Skjellyfetti]

Yeah I would like to know if it is wrong as well. Skelly can write it off if he wants but the guy that wrote the Op Ed is the former director of the CBO. He might lean right but he brought up some points, one of which I just backed up in the AP article I posted.

Well, the main sticking point in the AP article is the so called "Doctor fix"... a problem with Medicare that needs fixing and has needed fixing since the 90's. It's a totally separate issue from health care reform. And Democrats decided to deal with it separately... and they put it in the Jobs Bill from a month or so ago. So, if you want to criticize that, criticize that... but, it's separate from this health care reform bill.

[Skjellyfetti]

I remember Obama saying at the last state of the union that he was gonna put the health care plan on the back burner because the people have spoken and getting new jobs for the economy and erasing the debt were important to us but he **** lied like I knew he would to push his agenda.

Obama never said he was going to put health care on the back burner... not sure where you got that.

He staked his entire presidency on health care reform. No way in hell he would have ever said that.

[Fresno St. Alum]

I remember Obama saying at the last state of the union that he was gonna put the health care plan on the back burner because the people have spoken and getting new jobs for the economy and erasing the debt were important to us but he **** lied like I knew he would to push his agenda.

Obama never said he was going to put health care on the back burner... not sure where you got that.

He staked his entire presidency on health care reform. No way in hell he would have ever said that.

I voted for him.
He said it at his last state of the union. he may have said for now at the end of the sentence, but boom its done. Maybe he's such a smooth talker you didn't notice. I also noticed that he can't spell Syracuse either

[Skjellyfetti]

He said it at his last state of the union.

...No he didn't...

Here's the transcript:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/State_of ... 572&page=3" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

But he did say this:

Here's what I ask of Congress, though: Do not walk away from reform. Not now. Not when we are so close. Let us find a way to come together and finish the job for the American people.

He never said anything close to backtracking from health care...

[Fresno St. Alum]

fair enough skj. He focused on econ. and for the most part left out health care. I believe who ever the fuck I was listening to on CNN/CBS/ABC equated him leaving it out and focusing on jobs was because the peeps wanted jobs way more than anything and Obama was leaving health care out until he got the ball rolling on jobs. They're talking about people wanted Jobs over HC right now too on CNN.

Remember, I'm not here to take sides, I just want to make sense of it, and know what it will cost me, as in how much will my taxes go up to pay for others I don't give a fuck about. I'm someone w/health ins. and a $10 co pay, who didn't get thrown off my blue cross when they thought I might have liver cancer at the age of 32.

[T-Dog]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'll wait and see on this one. I like to see things put into practice before forming an opinion.

[travelinman67]

So, is the "opinion" wrong? Or would you rather, as usual, attack the messenger?

Yeah I would like to know if it is wrong as well. Skelly can write it off if he wants but the guy that wrote the Op Ed is the former director of the CBO. He might lean right but he brought up some points, one of which I just backed up in the AP article I posted.

Don't waste your time debating politics with Jellydonut. He's a pure "blind" ideologue who'd defend Obama/Pelosi/Reid if they were caught killing puppies.

[Skjellyfetti]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'll wait and see on this one. I like to see things put into practice before forming an opinion.

Fair enough. But, you're going to be waiting until 2014 at the earliest for everything to be put into action.

[Fresno St. Alum]

I rather they kill puppies than babies. This world is fuckin warped anyway. Dog killer Mike Vick gets 20 months. Person killer Donte Stallworth gets 30 days. 2 persons killer Lenard Little also did less lime.

[T-Dog]

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'll wait and see on this one. I like to see things put into practice before forming an opinion.

Fair enough. But, you're going to be waiting until 2014 at the earliest for everything to be put into action.

Yeah, except for these immediate effects. (I didn't compile this list, rather found it)

1. Adult children may remain as dependents on their parents’ policy until their 27th birthday

2. Children under age 19 may not be excluded from coverage by insurance companies for pre-existing conditions

3. No more lifetime or annual caps on coverage

4. Free preventative care for all

5. Adults with pre-existing conditions may buy into a national high-risk pool (later they will set up insurance exchanges where people can get more competitive rates).

6. Small businesses will be entitled to a tax credit for 2009 and 2010, which could be as much as 50% of what they pay for employees’ health insurance.

7. The “donut hole” closes for Medicare patients, closing a gap in coverage and making prescription medications more affordable for seniors.

8. Requirement that all insurers must post their balance sheets on the Internet and fully disclose administrative costs, executive compensation packages, and benefit payments.

9. Authorizes early funding of community health centers in all 50 states. Community health centers provide primary, dental and vision services to people in the community, based on a sliding scale for payment according to ability to pay.

10. No more rescission, ie effective immediately it ends the practice of insurance companies cutting off your coverage just because you get sick.

Granted it will be like a diesel engine in that it'll take a little bit to get it up and running, but I can wait a little while longer.

[eagleskins]

You have to love the Pubs that shed a tear over the most corrupt entity in human existence. The health insurance companies will only make millions instead of billions now. And 32 million people with the BS term of "prior conditions" will actually be allowed to be treated now. Rednecks are in the streets even though they don't make enough money to get pissed.

[ASUMountaineer]

Nah, but I don't give a **** about Rasmussen's poll and I don't think Obama or Democrats do either.

This healthcare debate has been over a year of absolute gutter politics (by both sides). There has been a ridiculous amount of misinformation spread (by both sides).

The public has been overwhelmingly for health care reform for the past decade.

When the dust settles and the public learns what the passage of the bill means I believe they will support it overwhelmingly. It's as big of a bill as Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid was. Those are overwhelmingly popular and I believe this healthcare bill will be as well.

Except it is health insurance reform, has nothing to do with reforming health care. Under this bill, health care could deteriorate...we'll have to see. Neither side has any idea how the passage of this bill will ultimately work out in a decade.

[ASUMountaineer]

The only thing I am embarrassed about is we are still the only Western country without universal healthcare.

Universal health insurance...

[ASUG8]

What really concerns me is that no one can tell us quantitatively what is happening with all this legislation.

* Did the stimulus create jobs? How many? Some say none, some say millions, yet the unemployment rate continues to rise - can that calculation even be trusted?
* Health care reform - what's the total cost? Does it save money or cost money? Seems like about $1B difference depending on who you ask. The CBO is supposed to be non-partisan, but why do they miss numbers so badly? Is their objectivity just a ruse, or are they simply incompetent?

I also have HUGE concerns over inflation and what's coming down the road. This will be my third year in a row of seeing across the board wage freezes where I work, and I'm not seeing my expenses fall.
I'm a fiscal conservative and I'll admit I haven't sat down to fully understand this bill. I do know that programs like this come at a cost, and our Congress continues to write checks that our Treasury can't cash - should be interesting to see what happens after the dust settles - I hope it's not like watching a massive pileup in slow motion.

[Pwns]

What a surprise...the most expensive and most likely to be popular portions of healthcare bill take effect immediately and the ones designed to cut costs take effect well after the 2010 and 2012 elections.

By the way, did Shrub ever pass a bill that didn't get a single donk vote?

[houndawg]

Oh stop it with the fiscal responsibility act. We can't afford two quagmires halfway around the planet either, but we manage to keep shoveling money at them for going-on-a-decade now.

The difference is, those can STOP. This is forever.

Theoretically they can stop, but it doesn't appear that that is going to happen anytime soon, unfortunately.