Diocese of Fairbanks agrees to pay 300 victims of abuse

[Cap'n Cat]

While it is proper that the diocese should compensate these victims, this fixation with the Catholic Church on the part of the media, attorneys, and anti-Catholic zealots concerning issues of child abuse is misplaced.

A Catholic priest is actually statistically less likely to be a child abuser than the average married man, as per the research of Philip Jenkins, a Penn State professor of humanities and the principal author of an authoritative study published by the Oxford University Press, Priests and Pedophiles. (Jenkins is not Catholic, by the way).

Children are abused by adults, teachers, civic leaders, and these incidents gather little or no attention because there is no deep pocket to sue, like a Catholic diocese.

rationalization

justification

Conkification.

[OSBF]

rationalization

justification

Conkification.

same thing

[JoltinJoe]

Conkification.

same thing

Translation: "We have nothing to say."

[D1B]

same thing

Translation: "We have nothing to say."

Translation: We feel sorry for you. Defending a massive catholic campaign to hide widespread child abuse at the hands of your priests. Defending the church protecting pedophiles and rapists by transferring them to other communities thus spreading the abuse like a disease.

Shame on you.

[OSBF]

Translation: "We have nothing to say."

Translation: We feel sorry for you. Defending a massive catholic campaign to hide widespread child abuse at the hands of your priests. Defending the church protecting pedophiles and rapists by transferring them to other communities thus spreading the abuse like a disease.

Shame on you.

isn't there something in the big book of morals about those who condone or enable sinners being just as guilty on the sin?

Serious question for joe: Why don't you think these monsters should be brought to justice?

[D1B]

Translation: We feel sorry for you. Defending a massive catholic campaign to hide widespread child abuse at the hands of your priests. Defending the church protecting pedophiles and rapists by transferring them to other communities thus spreading the abuse like a disease.

Shame on you.

isn't there something in the big book of morals about those who condone or enable sinners being just as guilty on the sin?

Serious question for joe: Why don't you think these monsters should be brought to justice?

He's a "Mob lawyer" for the Catholics - the world's greatest and most powerful crime family.

[OSBF]

isn't there something in the big book of morals about those who condone or enable sinners being just as guilty on the sin?

Serious question for joe: Why don't you think these monsters should be brought to justice?

He's a "Mob lawyer" for the Catholics - the world's greatest and most powerful crime family.

I understand that, but I'm more interested in is the moral conflict involved here.

Claiming to be a practicing catholic in good standing with the church would lead one to think he lives by a certain elevated moral code.

How does that mesh with the desire to see these monsters go un punished, to be un repentant, continue to prey on society, and be allowed to continue diddling kids?

I'm confused, priests can't marry, have kids, or lead an otherwise normal life. But they are pretty much allowed and encouraged to ass rape kids.

I'd like an explanation, not more meaningless dribble, rationalization, or justification.

What I'd love to hear him come out and admit to is this, "They have deep pockets, pay me damn good, I'll take whatever position will make me personally the most money."

'cuz that's what it appears to be.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

A Catholic priest is actually statistically less likely to be a child abuser than the average married man, as per the research of Philip Jenkins, a Penn State professor of humanities and the principal author of an authoritative study published by the Oxford University Press, Priests and Pedophiles. (Jenkins is not Catholic, by the way).

Joe, I have seen you reference this study many times before and I have to believe there is a large element of bullshit in Mr. Jenkins findings. When did this supposive study take place? It seems to me that a large percentage of victims have only come out in recent years. What percentage have still not be reported?

Even with the supposive findings, there is one obvious flaw in using this study to try to downplay the problem of pedophilia in the Catholic Church - even if a Catholic priest is less likely than a married man to be an abuser, he is in a position to have multiple times more victims than the layman sick fuck. It is the number of victims and how the Church has historically dealt with the perpetrators that should be the concentration, not the number of perpetrators or how they statistically fit in with to the rest of society.

[D1B]

A Catholic priest is actually statistically less likely to be a child abuser than the average married man, as per the research of Philip Jenkins, a Penn State professor of humanities and the principal author of an authoritative study published by the Oxford University Press, Priests and Pedophiles. (Jenkins is not Catholic, by the way).

Joe, I have seen you reference this study many times before and I have to believe there is a large element of bullshit in Mr. Jenkins findings. When did this supposive study take place? It seems to me that a large percentage of victims have only come out in recent years. What percentage have still not be reported?

Even with the supposive findings, there is one obvious flaw in using this study to try to downplay the problem of pedophilia in the Catholic Church - even if a Catholic priest is less likely than a married man to be an abuser, he is in a position to have multiple times more victims than the layman sick fuck. It is the number of victims and how the Church has historically dealt with the perpetrators that should be the concentration, not the number of perpetrators or how they statistically fit in with to the rest of society.

300 victims in Fairbanks Alaska alone! That's practically the entire town, outside of tourist season.

Joe often takes shots at me because he feels that people can have no morals or live an ethical life without a higher power pushing the issue. Even if Jenkins' contention is valid, deceiving but valid, what does this say about the catholic church and religion? One would think rape and pedophilia would be relatively non-existant, especially in the priesthood. At the very least, far less than the general pop.

Religion provides absolutely no guarantee of moral and ethical behavior - is it even worth it?

[JoltinJoe]

A Catholic priest is actually statistically less likely to be a child abuser than the average married man, as per the research of Philip Jenkins, a Penn State professor of humanities and the principal author of an authoritative study published by the Oxford University Press, Priests and Pedophiles. (Jenkins is not Catholic, by the way).

Joe, I have seen you reference this study many times before and I have to believe there is a large element of bullshit in Mr. Jenkins findings. When did this supposive study take place? It seems to me that a large percentage of victims have only come out in recent years. What percentage have still not be reported?

Even with the supposive findings, there is one obvious flaw in using this study to try to downplay the problem of pedophilia in the Catholic Church - even if a Catholic priest is less likely than a married man to be an abuser, he is in a position to have multiple times more victims than the layman sick ****. It is the number of victims and how the Church has historically dealt with the perpetrators that should be the concentration, not the number of perpetrators or how they statistically fit in with to the rest of society.

SunCoast, I want to congratulate you on making the only substantive response to my reference to the Jenkins' study. I would note the following: (i) Jenkins's study was published by Oxford University Press; (ii) was peer-reviewed; and (iii) and has never been critically challenged in any other peer-review forum.

According to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishop's study, about 4 percent of the priests or clergy who served between 1950 and 2002 were accused of at least one act of abuse; about 50% of the accused were cleared. So Jenkins's numbers appear to be holding up.

You are correct that the typical priest abuser has, on the average three to four victims. The USCCB identified about 11,000 claimed victims, and has verified about 6,700 claims.

I also think that a school teacher has just has much opportunity to molest children as a priest. There is no reason to think that if a comprehensive study of abuse of children by school teachers during the years 1950-2002 was conducted, you would not see a comprable rate of molestation.

[JoltinJoe]

Serious question for joe: Why don't you think these monsters should be brought to justice?

This isn't a serious question for me. I never said that they should not be brought to justice.

You are setting up a straw man.

[JoltinJoe]

He's a "Mob lawyer" for the Catholics - the world's greatest and most powerful crime family.

I understand that, but I'm more interested in is the moral conflict involved here.

Claiming to be a practicing catholic in good standing with the church would lead one to think he lives by a certain elevated moral code.

How does that mesh with the desire to see these monsters go un punished, to be un repentant, continue to prey on society, and be allowed to continue diddling kids?

I'm confused, priests can't marry, have kids, or lead an otherwise normal life. But they are pretty much allowed and encouraged to ass rape kids.

I'd like an explanation, not more meaningless dribble, rationalization, or justification.

What I'd love to hear him come out and admit to is this, "They have deep pockets, pay me damn good, I'll take whatever position will make me personally the most money."

'cuz that's what it appears to be.

Re-read your post, then focus on the bold part and the meaning of the word "irony."

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I also think that a school teacher has just has much opportunity to molest children as a priest. There is no reason to think that if a comprehensive study of abuse of children by school teachers during the years 1950-2002 was conducted, you would not see a comprable rate of molestation.

Right there is where I think you are totally off base, Joe. You don't think school teachers abusing children would garner the same attention and press as priests? They are scrutinized as much, if not more, than clergy figures for their indiscretions. You do hear a good deal about statutory cases (though wrong in their own right) involving teachers and older minors quite frequently, but not the pedophilia stuff. You kind of made a point against your argument with that statement, IMHO.

[OSBF]

I understand that, but I'm more interested in is the moral conflict involved here.

Claiming to be a practicing catholic in good standing with the church would lead one to think he lives by a certain elevated moral code.

How does that mesh with the desire to see these monsters go un punished, to be un repentant, continue to prey on society, and be allowed to continue diddling kids?

I'm confused, priests can't marry, have kids, or lead an otherwise normal life. But they are pretty much allowed and encouraged to ass rape kids.

I'd like an explanation, not more meaningless dribble, rationalization, or justification.

What I'd love to hear him come out and admit to is this, "They have deep pockets, pay me damn good, I'll take whatever position will make me personally the most money."

'cuz that's what it appears to be.

Re-read your post, then focus on the bold part and the meaning of the word "irony."

not going to give a meaningful answer, huh?

[OSBF]

Serious question for joe: Why don't you think these monsters should be brought to justice?

This isn't a serious question for me. I never said that they should not be brought to justice.

You are setting up a straw man.

so you agree they should face charges in the criminal courts instead of being sheltered by the church?

good, we have common ground

[JoltinJoe]

I also think that a school teacher has just has much opportunity to molest children as a priest. There is no reason to think that if a comprehensive study of abuse of children by school teachers during the years 1950-2002 was conducted, you would not see a comprable rate of molestation.

Right there is where I think you are totally off base, Joe. You don't think school teachers abusing children would garner the same attention and press as priests? They are scrutinized as much, if not more, than clergy figures for their indiscretions. You do hear a good deal about statutory cases (though wrong in their own right) involving teachers and older minors quite frequently, but not the pedophilia stuff. You kind of made a point against your argument with that statement, IMHO.

I think for the most part, and until recently, child abuse was virtually always swept under the rug. Plainly kids were getting abused at schools and churches throughout the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s, but we heard little about it.

The reason this issue has become so prevalent (particularly with respect to the church) is because, in 2001, an attorney in Boston filed a lawsuit on behalf of multiple victims of two area priests, hit the mother load when he discovered that the Boston Archdiocese actually maintained records of all such accusations (which school districts, no doubt, did not do), and then the media was all over the story in a heartbeat.

I'm not defending the way the bishops handled these claims. I'm only saying that what they did was really no different than what other churches, school districts, etc. were doing. As a member of the Church, I have every reason to say to the leadership that I expect more from them. But when anti-Catholic bigots start saying that, they are using it simply saying that as a pretext to continue their unbalanced attacks on the Church. If you believe that the Church is just another institution, no better than any other institution, you have no standing to say you "expect more from the Church."

[mainejeff]

The Catholic Church will continue to rail against gay marriage in order to deflect attention away from their pedophile priests.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I think for the most part, and until recently, child abuse was virtually always swept under the rug. Plainly kids were getting abused at schools and churches throughout the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s, but we heard little about it.

The reason this issue has become so prevalent (particularly with respect to the church) is because, in 2001, an attorney in Boston filed a lawsuit on behalf of multiple victims of two area priests, hit the mother load when he discovered that the Boston Archdiocese actually maintained records of all such accusations (which school districts, no doubt, did not do), and then the media was all over the story in a heartbeat.

I'm not defending the way the bishops handled these claims. I'm only saying that what they did was really no different than what other churches, school districts, etc. were doing. As a member of the Church, I have every reason to say to the leadership that I expect more from them. But when anti-Catholic bigots start saying that, they are using it simply saying that as a pretext to continue their unbalanced attacks on the Church. If you believe that the Church is just another institution, no better than any other institution, you have no standing to say you "expect more from the Church."

Then why aren't more people coming forward and suing the various school districts? I firmly believe that this has been a problem with the Catholic Church to a much, much greater degree than in ANY other organization. You hear about these things happening more in the Catholic Church, BECAUSE they happen more in the Catholic Church. You can try to excuse that away as much as you like, I ain't buying. Does that make Catholics or the idea of Catholicism bad? No. It means that that the Church and its governing practices are broken and in desperate need of fixing.

FWI, I, technically, am a Catholic, though not practicing. I had friends that were victims of abuse and I know how it was handled - 100% self-serving and completely unjust and unsympathetic. The Church's only goal was to protect the "good" name of the Church - screw the current and future victims. Very sad for an organization that claims to be the ear and voice of God. It certainly turned me away.

[mainejeff]

I bet that the Catholic Church wishes that it had a less educated/less questioning flock like the Baptists.

[OSBF]

I'm assuming the church wants this all to go away. They want to put an end to all the bad press and big $$ payoffs, and not likely have an overwhelming desire to for once in their history, not have history repeat itself.

It has to start with an admission that there is a problem that needs fixing. Then you work together to fix it, and make the changes necessary so it will never happen again.

As long as the faithful are in the same state of denial on this that joe is, it ain't gettin' any better any time soon.

[JoltinJoe]

I'm assuming the church wants this all to go away. They want to put an end to all the bad press and big $$ payoffs, and not likely have an overwhelming desire to for once in their history, not have history repeat itself.

It has to start with an admission that there is a problem that needs fixing. Then you work together to fix it, and make the changes necessary so it will never happen again.

As long as the faithful are in the same state of denial on this that joe is, it ain't gettin' any better any time soon.

The irony of the things you say ... you're the one in denial.

You are denying that the abuses which have happened in the church have occurred with at least equal frequency in other, secular institutions. Wake up and smell the

[andy7171]

Two things,

1- D1b - The Diocese of Fairbanks encompasses more than just the town, 54 churchs across Alaska(according to wiki) and 18,000 Catholics. Not that it excuses those 300 cases, in the least.

2- OSBF - These cases of abuse horrifies Catholic parishoners more so that it does you.

[OSBF]

2- OSBF - These cases of abuse horrifies Catholic parishoners more so that it does you.

put up or STFU

do something about it then

the abusers need to be in prison

allow criminal charges to be brought instead of protecting the monsters

[OSBF]

I'm assuming the church wants this all to go away. They want to put an end to all the bad press and big $$ payoffs, and not likely have an overwhelming desire to for once in their history, not have history repeat itself.

It has to start with an admission that there is a problem that needs fixing. Then you work together to fix it, and make the changes necessary so it will never happen again.

As long as the faithful are in the same state of denial on this that joe is, it ain't gettin' any better any time soon.

The irony of the things you say ... you're the one in denial.

You are denying that the abuses which have happened in the church have occurred with at least equal frequency in other, secular institutions. Wake up and smell the

why do you insist on deflecting instead of looking in the mirror?

must not like what you see looking back

[SunCoastBlueHen]

2- OSBF - These cases of abuse horrifies Catholic parishoners more so that it does you.

put up or STFU

do something about it then

the abusers need to be in prison

allow criminal charges to be brought instead of protecting the monsters

The Church is an oligarchy, OSBF. Ain't nothin' parishiners can do to influence much. Except, maybe, stop feeding collection plate, but then, as an example, your kid will all of a sudden get cut from the CYO basketball team...