Catholic Church gives D.C. ultimatum over gay marriage

[dbackjon]

The Catholic Archdiocese of Washington said Wednesday that it will be unable to continue the social service programs it runs for the District if the city doesn't change a proposed same-sex marriage law, a threat that could affect tens of thousands of people the church helps with adoption, homelessness and health care.

Under the bill, headed for a D.C. Council vote next month, religious organizations would not be required to perform or make space available for same-sex weddings. But they would have to obey city laws prohibiting discrimination against gay men and lesbians.

Fearful that they could be forced, among other things, to extend employee benefits to same-sex married couples, church officials said they would have no choice but to abandon their contracts with the city.

"If the city requires this, we can't do it," Susan Gibbs, spokeswoman for the archdiocese, said Wednesday. "The city is saying in order to provide social services, you need to be secular. For us, that's really a problem."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews

[Appaholic]

Does this mean they will close the churches as well? Perhaps I should start lobbying for same-sex marriage in Mills River......

[slycat]

Damn these churches are dumb. They can accept who they want.

[SuperHornet]

Damn these churches are dumb. They can accept who they want.

There are those who would change that. It's already happened in other countries.

[D1B]

Catholics do alot of good work, but never forget, for them, it's all about the church, period.

[dbackjon]

Damn these churches are dumb. They can accept who they want.

There are those who would change that. It's already happened in other countries.

Proof?

Even if true, those countries do not have our First Amendment, which is not going anywhere.

[mainejeff]

More B.S. from the Catholic Church.

When did it become acceptable for religions/churches in this country to dictate to local, state and federal governments what will and will not become law??? They want to CONTROL how we live AND not pay a DIME in taxes........how CONVENIENT!

[D1B]

More B.S. from the Catholic Church.

When did it become acceptable for religions/churches in this country to dictate to local, state and federal governments what will and will not become law??? They want to CONTROL how we live AND not pay a DIME in taxes........how CONVENIENT!

They are a private entity and can do what they want, if they're not receiving government grants. They have every right to do that, as long as they return the money.

This threat is real. Catholics do a shitload a of good work in communities. Catholic charities are typically the best run and best funded orgs. They also take on front line work such as chronic homelessness and housing programs for the poor, developmentally disabled and mentally ill. Any major community would be fucked without the catholics.

This has the makings of yet another public relations disaster for the catholic church.

[Col Hogan]

More B.S. from the Catholic Church.

When did it become acceptable for religions/churches in this country to dictate to local, state and federal governments what will and will not become law??? They want to CONTROL how we live AND not pay a DIME in taxes........how CONVENIENT!

Jeff....jeff...read the link....the Catholic Church is NOT dictating to the local government what will and will not become law...

What they have clearly said is IF you enact this law...WE will no longer participate in your programs because we oppose being forced to follow your law...

The law does not force the Catholic Church to perform same-sex marriages...but it would force the church, as a participant in the city programs, to provide benefits to the partners in same-sex marriages...a position they will not be in if they drop out of the city programs...

The church will continue to provide all the services they can under the auspices of Catholic Charities...it will just drop out of providing city services...

[Appaholic]

More B.S. from the Catholic Church.

When did it become acceptable for religions/churches in this country to dictate to local, state and federal governments what will and will not become law??? They want to CONTROL how we live AND not pay a DIME in taxes........how CONVENIENT!

They are a private entity and can do what they want, if they're not receiving government grants. They have every right to do that, as long as they return the money.

This threat is real. Catholics do a shitload a of good work in communities. Catholic charities are typically the best run and best funded orgs. They also take on front line work such as chronic homelessness and housing programs for the poor, developmentally disabled and mentally ill. Any major community would be fucked without the catholics.

This has the makings of yet another public relations disaster for the catholic church.

..& as a private entity, they should be forced to observe the law of the land or forego their tax exempt status..or quit operating as it appears the Catholic organizations are considering..& that goes for all organizations, not just Catholic ones.....need to cut off the gravy train for these self-important who receive taxpayer money while working to circumvent the law....who do they think they are? banks?

[Col Hogan]

They are a private entity and can do what they want, if they're not receiving government grants. They have every right to do that, as long as they return the money.

This threat is real. Catholics do a shitload a of good work in communities. Catholic charities are typically the best run and best funded orgs. They also take on front line work such as chronic homelessness and housing programs for the poor, developmentally disabled and mentally ill. Any major community would be **** without the catholics.

This has the makings of yet another public relations disaster for the catholic church.

..& as a private entity, they should be forced to observe the law of the land or forego their tax exempt status..or quit operating as it appears the Catholic organizations are considering..& that goes for all organizations, not just Catholic ones.....need to cut off the gravy train for these self-important who receive taxpayer money while working to circumvent the law....who do they think they are? banks?

But if the law is passed in DC, the Catholic Chruch has made it clear they will accept no tax-payer dollars...the only reason they are receiving them now is the city came to Catholic Charities (thanks D1B for the good plug...they get the biggest amount of my donations...) and asked them to run certain programs...BECAUSE THE CITY OF DC IS SO INEFFECTIVE...

[Appaholic]

..& as a private entity, they should be forced to observe the law of the land or forego their tax exempt status..or quit operating as it appears the Catholic organizations are considering..& that goes for all organizations, not just Catholic ones.....need to cut off the gravy train for these self-important who receive taxpayer money while working to circumvent the law....who do they think they are? banks?

But if the law is passed in DC, the Catholic Chruch has made it clear they will accept no tax-payer dollars...the only reason they are receiving them now is the city came to Catholic Charities (thanks D1B for the good plug...they get the biggest amount of my donations...) and asked them to run certain programs...BECAUSE THE CITY OF DC IS SO INEFFECTIVE...

If they are accepting no public money, then there's no problem IMO....Catholic Church can choose to help who they want to help with their money at these facilities...as long as they pay property taxes on those facilities....

[dbackjon]

Colonel is also failing to mention that they use city-owned facilities...

[Appaholic]

Colonel is also failing to mention that they use city-owned facilities...

...& surely Col, consistent with his conservative beliefs, would encourage the church to leave the city-owned facilities & return to church-owned property where they can conduct their business unfettered by government edicts...

[dbackjon]

One of the issues I have with the Catholic (or most Church's) postition is that they are being very selective over which "sin" they are refusing to serve/acknowledge.

Jesus never once mentioned homosexuality, but he did condemn divorce, and adultery. But the Catholic Church has no problem providing benefits for divorced/remarried couples, that unless certain things happened to cause the divorce, Jesus considered them adulters.

When Jesus provided his social services, he did not put any preconditions on it - no check in line to feed the 5,000, healed everyone.


Catholic Charities provide many, many wonderful services - but they are letting themselves (or the Archdiocese is) be taken away from what Christ would do.

[Appaholic]

One of the issues I have with the Catholic (or most Church's) postition is that they are being very selective over which "sin" they are refusing to serve/acknowledge.

Jesus never once mentioned homosexuality, but he did condemn divorce, and adultery. But the Catholic Church has no problem providing benefits for divorced/remarried couples, that unless certain things happened to cause the divorce, Jesus considered them adulters.

When Jesus provided his social services, he did not put any preconditions on it - no check in line to feed the 5,000, healed everyone.


Catholic Charities provide many, many wonderful services - but they are letting themselves (or the Archdiocese is) be taken away from what Christ would do.

What say you Catholic apologists? How does the church & it's members reconcile this inconsistent church position? Or, are you no better than the Southern Baptists?

[Col Hogan]

Colonel is also failing to mention that they use city-owned facilities...

For the city services, yes...if the law passes, they will not need those city facilities because they will not be providing those services...

[Col Hogan]

One of the issues I have with the Catholic (or most Church's) postition is that they are being very selective over which "sin" they are refusing to serve/acknowledge.

Jesus never once mentioned homosexuality, but he did condemn divorce, and adultery. But the Catholic Church has no problem providing benefits for divorced/remarried couples, that unless certain things happened to cause the divorce, Jesus considered them adulters.

When Jesus provided his social services, he did not put any preconditions on it - no check in line to feed the 5,000, healed everyone.


Catholic Charities provide many, many wonderful services - but they are letting themselves (or the Archdiocese is) be taken away from what Christ would do.

What say you Catholic apologists? How does the church & it's members reconcile this inconsistent church position? Or, are you no better than the Southern Baptists?

I'll answer a detailed question...but what jon posted is not complete in it's detail...such as, What services does the Catholic Church provide divorced/remarried couples? I'm not aware of any, but I'm open to hear what others know...

And as Jesus, who jon correctly points out, did not put a precondition on who received the services, Catholic Charities does not put preconditions on who receives the services they provide...ANYONE can walk into Catholic Charities and receive help...

Ironically, Catholic Charities must turn away people from the city-contracted services if they don't meet certain criteria...something that never happens if you walk into Catholic Charities for the services they provide...

The issue here is, they will not PAY to provide for a service that the Church is opposed to...in this case...it will not pay to provide services to same-sex married employees...

[dbackjon]

That is the point Colonel. The church does not turn away straight couples that married in violation of church doctrine.

[Col Hogan]

That is the point Colonel. The church does not turn away straight couples that married in violation of church doctrine.

And the Catholic Charities does not turn away gays seeking services they offer...They don't turn away non-catholics...

Don't mix two very different things....the services offered by Catholic Charities...and the civil government mandating what the Church must do...two very different things...

In a previous thread on same-sex marriage, you made a point of saying no gay group wants to force it's agenda onto a church...great...then you must accept what that fair group and it's private social service agencies do...

There are other faiths that will not provide it's services to a non-member...or gays...

Catholic Charities is open to everyone to receive the services THEY CHOOSE to provide...services that are in line with the Church's teachings...Catholic Charities does not provide abortion counseling...they do provide pre-natal services, and adoption services...they provide services to mothers with children born out of wedlock...they provide services to women who had abortions...

Show me where gays have every been turned away by Catholic Charities when they requested services that Catholic Charities offer...

[andy7171]

That is the point Colonel. The church does not turn away straight couples that married in violation of church doctrine.

Wait a tic. I didn't think you could get remarried or receive communion without getting an annulment.

[Col Hogan]

That is the point Colonel. The church does not turn away straight couples that married in violation of church doctrine.

Wait a tic. I didn't think you could get remarried or receive communion without getting an annulment.

You can't Andy...

I think it's just perception issues...that the Church makes exceptions for some and not others...when they have really been pretty straight in taking a line and keeping to it...

We have strayed, I'm afraid...because we are human...show me one institution run by humans that hasn't...

[mainejeff]

Colonel is also failing to mention that they use city-owned facilities...

...& surely Col, consistent with his conservative beliefs, would encourage the church to leave the city-owned facilities & return to church-owned property where they can conduct their business unfettered by government edicts...

ABSOLUTELY!

Why are conservatives such HYPOCRITES???? Seriously, that is one of my biggest problems with the conservative movement. They are SO lucky that there are so many stupid (ignorant) people on their side that can't see what they are all about.

[Col Hogan]

...& surely Col, consistent with his conservative beliefs, would encourage the church to leave the city-owned facilities & return to church-owned property where they can conduct their business unfettered by government edicts...

ABSOLUTELY!

Why are conservatives such HYPOCRITES???? Seriously, that is one of my biggest problems with the conservative movement. They are SO lucky that there are so many stupid (ignorant) people on their side that can't see what they are all about.

Another mj drive-by...doesn't read the entire thread...just shoots his uninformed hatred from the hip...

SMFH...

[mainejeff]

Another mj drive-by...

I take my cues from that bastion of conservatism known as Fox News.