3 THINGS THAT WILL MAKE THE CS.COM POLL BETTER !

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Especially when its considered "official." The Coaches poll is transparent. For all we know, the Sports Network poll is made up of 89 Socon, SLC and CAA writers and SIDs.

I think the TSN poll should do what the AP poll does:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/spec ... CTION=HOME

List the voters and their votes.

This was really the core of my point before it got really de-railed. I dont have to re-state my position, but I agree

Hey FT, we've been friends for a long time on the boards and I hope you know that I was just fucking around with you yesterday. I am not one of the guys with the information (completely) on the poll so I can't give it out and I know that it is an ongoing process that was basically being tested this season to work the kinks out of it. That seems pretty reasonable to me because there are a couple of things that are being worked on to tighten up the outliers and so forth. Everybody gets to vote for exactly what they think and are not overridden by the guys doing the poll. Your vote is what you want it to be and is not thrown out because you think differently than the guys running the site or the poll.

You were taking a shot about the "6 voters" thing so I wanted to find out why the animosity over it. It seemed kinda out of the blue so I wanted to rile ya to see what it was about.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

My idea was that our poll could be more of a "playoff poll". Any teams not eligible for the playoffs wouldn't be in the list.

I agree with you Ursus. If you only want 16 teams then make it a "if the playoff field happened today" poll and you could start the poll at the 1/2 way point of the season. It would basically be a seed poll so it would be fun to see who is predicting the last teams getting in.

I think that would be kinda cool and it might be something to work on for next year as that hasn't been tossed around too much. I acquiesced to the top 25 but maybe if enough people wanted to do it could be added. I would rather vote in a poll like that but would definitely do both but I don't know if a lot of people would.

[Franks Tanks]

This was really the core of my point before it got really de-railed. I dont have to re-state my position, but I agree

Hey FT, we've been friends for a long time on the boards and I hope you know that I was just **** around with you yesterday. I am not one of the guys with the information (completely) on the poll so I can't give it out and I know that it is an ongoing process that was basically being tested this season to work the kinks out of it. That seems pretty reasonable to me because there are a couple of things that are being worked on to tighten up the outliers and so forth. Everybody gets to vote for exactly what they think and are not overridden by the guys doing the poll. Your vote is what you want it to be and is not thrown out because you think differently than the guys running the site or the poll.

You were taking a shot about the "6 voters" thing so I wanted to find out why the animosity over it. It seemed kinda out of the blue so I wanted to rile ya to see what it was about.

No hard feeling and really no animosity over the poll. I am not sensitive in anyway- in fact I probably call names and the like a little to often, but its just messing around as well. Life is to short to get upset over arguments on a message board.

My initiall reaction, which could be wrong, is that a small group of guys create the poll based on their opinion. That may or may not be the case--I dont know. If it is the case that is perfectly fine as well, you guys have the right to create a poll as you see fit. If your intent is to create a poll that has different criteria than others, I say that is admirable as well.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

It depends on what you consider a small group. As I said there were a little over 40 voters from a few weeks back. If you consider that probably 1/2 or better of that number is BSC voters then I think the results and the way it is set up to mitigate the homer effect is working pretty decent in it's early days. I also think that the voters must be doing some decent work to find the deserving teams because it looks like a few of the smaller conferences are getting some rep in the poll.

[guinzone]

All I want to see is the first place votes listed for each team and the 'receiving votes' column for the last 5 teams out.

[dbackjon]

Get a room Ursus and FT.

[Franks Tanks]

Get a room Ursus and FT.

[89Hen]

Does having more voters make the poll better or more legitimate? I don't really think it does.

I'd rather have a goup of 10 poeple voting that know what they are talking about then a group of 100 voting with 10 guys that know what they are talking about scattered throughout. In the latter case, you have the polls of 90 people clouding the reasoned opinions of the 10.

I don't think the 28 voters in the Coaches poll discredits the poll. I think the fact that the coaches don't have time to vote or delegate the task to SID's is what discredits the poll.

I think the number 28 speaks to the lack of time or knowledge.

I also think there is a threshold for number of voters, both min and max, to make it legit. I'm not exactly sure what those numbers are, but I know it's more than 28 and less than 200. Too few and it's really not much of a "poll" IMO and too many makes it impossible to moderate.

[89Hen]

I stopped voting because I felt incompetent trying to vote past about the # 15 mark...

EVERYONE is in the same camp on that one Beef. There are 25 teams worth ranking right now.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Does having more voters make the poll better or more legitimate? I don't really think it does.

I'd rather have a goup of 10 poeple voting that know what they are talking about then a group of 100 voting with 10 guys that know what they are talking about scattered throughout. In the latter case, you have the polls of 90 people clouding the reasoned opinions of the 10.

I don't think the 28 voters in the Coaches poll discredits the poll. I think the fact that the coaches don't have time to vote or delegate the task to SID's is what discredits the poll.

I think the number 28 speaks to the lack of time or knowledge.

I also think there is a threshold for number of voters, both min and max, to make it legit. I'm not exactly sure what those numbers are, but I know it's more than 28 and less than 200. Too few and it's really not much of a "poll" IMO and too many makes it impossible to moderate.

I didn't know that you had criteria for legitimacy hen. Good to know. This poll isn't legitimate then but the results are as good or better than any of the legits out there. That's good enough for me.

[danefan]

Yeah I think the legitimacy of a poll is in the eye of the person critiquing the results.

I'd say the CS.com poll is far more legitimate than the TSN, AGS or Coaches poll this week because it is clearly a better representation of the 25 best teams in the country.

[dbackjon]

I think the number 28 speaks to the lack of time or knowledge.

I also think there is a threshold for number of voters, both min and max, to make it legit. I'm not exactly sure what those numbers are, but I know it's more than 28 and less than 200. Too few and it's really not much of a "poll" IMO and too many makes it impossible to moderate.

I didn't know that you had criteria for legitimacy hen. Good to know. This poll isn't legitimate then but the results are as good or better than any of the legits out there. That's good enough for me.

We do have more than enough voters for a legit poll. Hopefully that will grow. All I know is the CS poll is the best one out there, results wise.

Not voting preseason helps a lot.

[89Hen]

I didn't know that you had criteria for legitimacy hen. Good to know. This poll isn't legitimate then but the results are as good or better than any of the legits out there. That's good enough for me.

Only MHO Ursus. If you, me, danefan and appaholic sat down and came up with a Top 25, it would look pretty good too I'm guessing. But my point is a poll is supposed to be a cross-section of people. I think 10-20 even 30 votes doesn't give that cross-section. You could have a poll of 10 people that comes up with the exact same 1-25 as a poll of 100. Hard to say that one is more legit than the other, but it's kinda like that old math thing of decimals. What is more accurate:

1

or

1.000000000000

In regular practice, 1 is usually good enough. But in theory the second one is much more accurate.

[89Hen]

I'd say the CS.com poll is far more legitimate than the TSN, AGS or Coaches poll this week because it is clearly a better representation of the 25 best teams in the country.

All I know is the CS poll is the best one out there, results wise.

Who the fvck are you kidding? Because NAU is in and Lafayette is out? That's the only real difference and NAU is 26 on AGS.

CS
1 Richmond Spiders
2 Montana Grizzlies
3 Southern Illinois Salukis
4 Villanova Wildcats
5 William & Mary Tribe
6 Elon Phoenix
7 Appalachian State Mountaineers
8 South Dakota State Jackrabbits
9 New Hampshire Wildcats
10 South Carolina State Bulldogs
11 McNeese State Cowboys
12 Northern Iowa Panthers
13 Eastern Illinois Panthers
14 Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
15 Eastern Washington Eagles
16 Jacksonville State Gamecocks
17 Central Arkansas Bears
18 Liberty Flames
19 Weber State Wildcats
20 Holy Cross Crusaders
21 Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
22 Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
23 Florida A&M Rattlers
24 Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
25 Colgate Raiders

AGS
1. Richmond (85) 2244
2. Montana (4) 2115
3. Southern Illinois (1) 2061
4. Villanova 1944
5. William & Mary 1848
6. Elon 1770
7. Appalachian St. 1671
8. New Hampshire 1654
9. South Dakota St. 1545
10. South Carolina St. 1396
11. McNeese St. 1325
12. Northern Iowa 1288
13. Holy Cross 865
14. Eastern Illinois 831
15. Liberty 782
16. Stephen F. Austin 763
17. Jacksonville St. 757
18. Eastern Washington 694
19. Central Arkansas 572
20. Weber St. 520
21. Colgate 495
22. Delaware 412
23. Lafayette 293
24. Florida A&M 257
25. Central Connecticut St. 173

[danefan]

I'd say the CS.com poll is far more legitimate than the TSN, AGS or Coaches poll this week because it is clearly a better representation of the 25 best teams in the country.

All I know is the CS poll is the best one out there, results wise.

Who the fvck are you kidding? Because NAU is in and Lafayette is out? That's the only real difference and NAU is 26 on AGS.

CS
1 Richmond Spiders
2 Montana Grizzlies
3 Southern Illinois Salukis
4 Villanova Wildcats
5 William & Mary Tribe
6 Elon Phoenix
7 Appalachian State Mountaineers
8 South Dakota State Jackrabbits
9 New Hampshire Wildcats
10 South Carolina State Bulldogs
11 McNeese State Cowboys
12 Northern Iowa Panthers
13 Eastern Illinois Panthers
14 Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks
15 Eastern Washington Eagles
16 Jacksonville State Gamecocks
17 Central Arkansas Bears
18 Liberty Flames
19 Weber State Wildcats
20 Holy Cross Crusaders
21 Northern Arizona Lumberjacks
22 Delaware Fightin' Blue Hens
23 Florida A&M Rattlers
24 Central Connecticut State Blue Devils
25 Colgate Raiders

AGS
1. Richmond (85) 2244
2. Montana (4) 2115
3. Southern Illinois (1) 2061
4. Villanova 1944
5. William & Mary 1848
6. Elon 1770
7. Appalachian St. 1671
8. New Hampshire 1654
9. South Dakota St. 1545
10. South Carolina St. 1396
11. McNeese St. 1325
12. Northern Iowa 1288
13. Holy Cross 865
14. Eastern Illinois 831
15. Liberty 782
16. Stephen F. Austin 763
17. Jacksonville St. 757
18. Eastern Washington 694
19. Central Arkansas 572
20. Weber St. 520
21. Colgate 495
22. Delaware 412
23. Lafayette 293
24. Florida A&M 257
25. Central Connecticut St. 173

The poll loses complete legitimacy when a team with a loss to BROWN is the #13 team in the poll.

But besides that HUGE error in the poll, it looks OK.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Yeah the differences in the polls are fairly small.

[bobbythekidd]

Yeah the differences in the polls are fairly small.

They are now, but not over the last three weeks.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Yeah the differences in the polls are fairly small.

They are now, but not over the last three weeks.

Well HC up at 13 is a pretty big difference but once outside the top 15 it seems not to make a big difference to me cuz it's so hard to find the separation factor in those teams.

[BlackFalkin]

The top 25 poll goes hand in hand with the FBS.. So why not CREATE a specialized fcs poll....

[Tailbone]

..... What is more accurate:

1

or

1.000000000000

In regular practice, 1 is usually good enough. But in theory the second one is much more accurate.

These two representations are equal.
They equal 1.
Neither is more accurate than the other.



But, I'll put this argument to bed.

I decided the rank of the teams listed in the top 25.
I made the decision by myself.
My opinion is the ONLY one that matters.
Got that?

--Chuck Norris--

[89Hen]

These two representations are equal.
They equal 1.
Neither is more accurate than the other.

Not true.

[89Hen]

I'd say the CS.com poll is far more legitimate than the TSN, AGS or Coaches poll this week because it is clearly a better representation of the 25 best teams in the country.

The poll loses complete legitimacy when a team with a loss to BROWN is the #13 team in the poll.

But besides that HUGE error in the poll, it looks OK.

So HC's 7 spots makes it "far less legitimate"? We all know you have a huge grudge against the PL, but sheesh.

[JMU DJ]

These two representations are equal.
They equal 1.
Neither is more accurate than the other.

Not true.

I'm with the Hen on this one... more significant figures

[bobbythekidd]

Not true.

I'm with the Hen on this one... more significant figures

Yep.

1.00554848954 and 1.000000000 both more or less equal 1, but only one is EXACTLY equal to 1.

[danefan]

The poll loses complete legitimacy when a team with a loss to BROWN is the #13 team in the poll.

But besides that HUGE error in the poll, it looks OK.

So HC's 7 spots makes it "far less legitimate"? We all know you have a huge grudge against the PL, but sheesh.

I don't have a huge grudge against the Patriot league. I have a grudge against people who feel top of the Patriot, MEAC, Big South, SWAC and Ivy league are better than the top of the NEC.

My grudge manifests itself more with the PL this year because people are somehow voting three PL teams in the poll.

Besides SCSU, put any team from those conferences in the 13th spot and the poll is incredibly flawed.