Machinists Union kills Seattle again....

[AZGrizFan]

Except for the part about ME being a "wealthy white male". 2 out of 3 ain't bad, I guess.

I'm not white. I'm PASTY white. As in---Irish.

[Cap'n Cat]

I'm not white. I'm PASTY white. As in---Irish.

So's Ralph, coincidentally. You can see veins two inches below his skin surface. Dude never gets sun.

[houndawg]

I am in the curious position of working at a lab within our company that is union, even though I am not. We purchased the lab about 6 years ago.

My take on the union workers where I work:

They are some of the laziest, I don't give a rats ass employees in the company. Maybe it is inherent to Seattle, but the union workers in my company do not portray the traits of good employees. They are always on some type of break, watch the clock like hawks and just plain don't give a **** because they know they can't be canned for poor performance.

Now, back to the machinists. The machinists **** everyone over.

Especially if you consider the fact that Boeing promotes from within and trains employees on the job for other positions. Then, when someone finally achieves where they want to go in the company, they strike? Because Boeing spent the time and money to train them - making them ever more employable elsewhere?

Very well said.

TTBF, I know companies still dick over thier employees(trust me, i'm experienced) but that doesn't mean that a union is perfect to remedy the situation. In fact, IMO, the Union should be working FOR the individual company. A happy worker is a productive worker and like it was said, they are a third party (and they need to go).

Happy workers don't vote in unions. It's that simple; if you have a union you have it because of bad management. Management is bloated, inefficient, and paid way more than they are worth, but nobody expects them to give back anything.

[AZGrizFan]

Happy workers don't vote in unions. It's that simple; if you have a union you have it because of bad management. Management is bloated, inefficient, and paid way more than they are worth, but nobody expects them to give back anything.

Oh, HORSESHIT. If you have a union it might mean that you had bad management ONCE. But, unions are like herpes. Once you HAVE them, you can NEVER get rid of them. The unions that DO exist have typically been there for generations. And they spend the bulk of their time driving wedges between employees and management....spending ALL their time, money and energy convincing all line employees (like you, dawg) that ALL management is bloated, overpaid and inefficient, and is only there to fuck over the poor prolitariate and steal all the profits....much like politics, their fearmongering is how they retain their power.

And like a good donk, you've fallen for their schtick hook, line and sinker.

For some reason, I thought you were smarter than that.

[Chizzang]

Happy workers don't vote in unions.

True statement - however - it's a 1/2 truth...Unhappy workers vote in unions (true)
But try getting rid of a union once it's served it's purpose (voted in 50 years ago) good luck...

As for personal preference, only nine percent (9%) of non-union workers would like to join a union. That's right less than one-in-ten Americans think they need a Union... and a huge percentage of Americans, Eighty-one percent (81%) have a negative perception of Unions including union employees and would definately not want to be in a Union...

The Rasmussen Report tell all..!!!
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/

[houndawg]

Happy workers don't vote in unions.

True statement - however - it's a 1/2 truth...Unhappy workers vote in unions (true)
But try getting rid of a union once it's served it's purpose (voted in 50 years ago) good luck...

As for personal preference, only nine percent (9%) of non-union workers would like to join a union. That's right less than one-in-ten Americans think they need a Union... and a huge percentage of Americans, Eighty-one percent (81%) have a negative perception of Unions including union employees and would definately not want to be in a Union...

The Rasmussen Report tell all..!!!
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/

Workers have voted unions out just like they voted them in. Unions have been getting decertified for 30 years.

Your post reinforces my point that unions are whipping boys to divert attention from piss poor management. Less than 10% of our workforce is unionized but everything is the unions fault.

Can't compete abroad? Unions fault

Wouldn't spend the money to modernize your facility and remain competitive because it would lower your bonus? Unions fault.

Japanese kicking the living shit out of you in your own backyard, and doing it with American labor? Unions fault.

Strangling on bloated, inefficient, unproductive management? Unions fault



You have to lead by example if you want to be taken seriously when you ask for givebacks.

s.

[houndawg]

Happy workers don't vote in unions. It's that simple; if you have a union you have it because of bad management. Management is bloated, inefficient, and paid way more than they are worth, but nobody expects them to give back anything.

Oh, HORSESHIT. If you have a union it might mean that you had bad management ONCE. But, unions are like herpes. Once you HAVE them, you can NEVER get rid of them. The unions that DO exist have typically been there for generations. And they spend the bulk of their time driving wedges between employees and management....spending ALL their time, money and energy convincing all line employees (like you, dawg) that ALL management is bloated, overpaid and inefficient, and is only there to **** over the poor prolitariate and steal all the profits....much like politics, their fearmongering is how they retain their power.

And like a good donk, you've fallen for their schtick hook, line and sinker.

For some reason, I thought you were smarter than that.

Patent nonsense, Herbert. Union membership is down and unions have been getting decertified for decades now. For some reason I thought you were in touch with our universe.

You want to get cooperation from the unions you gotta get your own house in order first.

I'd call them out by saying "We're going to lay off one useless middle manager for every person we lay off that actually produces something".

[Cap'n Cat]

Happy workers don't vote in unions. It's that simple; if you have a union you have it because of bad management. Management is bloated, inefficient, and paid way more than they are worth, but nobody expects them to give back anything.

Oh, HORSESHIT. If you have a union it might mean that you had bad management ONCE. But, unions are like herpes. Once you HAVE them, you can NEVER get rid of them. The unions that DO exist have typically been there for generations. And they spend the bulk of their time driving wedges between employees and management....spending ALL their time, money and energy convincing all line employees (like you, dawg) that ALL management is bloated, overpaid and inefficient, and is only there to fuck over the poor prolitariate and steal all the profits....much like politics, their fearmongering is how they retain their power.

And like a good donk, you've fallen for their schtick hook, line and sinker.

For some reason, I thought you were smarter than that.

Except for the stupid generalization about Donks and the insult at the end, I agree with Z. Another thing dear old Grandpa Cat used to say is, "If you have a union, you probably deserve one."

[houndawg]

Happy workers don't vote in unions. It's that simple; if you have a union you have it because of bad management. Management is bloated, inefficient, and paid way more than they are worth, but nobody expects them to give back anything.

Oh, HORSESHIT. If you have a union it might mean that you had bad management ONCE. But, unions are like herpes. Once you HAVE them, you can NEVER get rid of them. The unions that DO exist have typically been there for generations. And they spend the bulk of their time driving wedges between employees and management....spending ALL their time, money and energy convincing all line employees (like you, dawg) that ALL management is bloated, overpaid and inefficient, and is only there to **** over the poor prolitariate and steal all the profits....much like politics, their fearmongering is how they retain their power.

And like a good donk, you've fallen for their schtick hook, line and sinker.

For some reason, I thought you were smarter than that.

Never said all management was useless, Poindexter; just sayin' that there is a lot of dead wood in the management ranks, just like there is in the unions, and you have to lead by example. Iacocca did. I spent over ten years on the factory floor as a SALARIED employee, I KNOW where the fat is in management.

Most front line supervisors and engineers earn their pay and actually know what the plant is doing and can do. Above that it's mostly about writing reports and passing off those peoples knowledge as your own.

[Chizzang]

Never said all management was useless, Poindexter; just sayin' that there is a lot of dead wood in the management ranks, just like there is in the unions, and you have to lead by example. Iacocca did. I spent over ten years on the factory floor as a SALARIED employee, I KNOW where the fat is in management.

Most front line supervisors and engineers earn their pay and actually know what the plant is doing and can do. Above that it's mostly about writing reports and passing off those peoples knowledge as your own.

A agree with the point that there is "some fat" in Management...
I've seen it as very common, hell I've been "the fat" in management several times...

I'm not relaxing my opinions that Unions do more damage than good today - but I will agree completely that American companies specialize in massive middle management slog... it's actually hysterical

I've made a great living in that quagmire

[Cap'n Cat]

Oh, HORSESHIT. If you have a union it might mean that you had bad management ONCE. But, unions are like herpes. Once you HAVE them, you can NEVER get rid of them. The unions that DO exist have typically been there for generations. And they spend the bulk of their time driving wedges between employees and management....spending ALL their time, money and energy convincing all line employees (like you, dawg) that ALL management is bloated, overpaid and inefficient, and is only there to **** over the poor prolitariate and steal all the profits....much like politics, their fearmongering is how they retain their power.

And like a good donk, you've fallen for their schtick hook, line and sinker.

For some reason, I thought you were smarter than that.

Never said all management was useless, Poindexter; just sayin' that there is a lot of dead wood in the management ranks, just like there is in the unions, and you have to lead by example. Iacocca did. I spent over ten years on the factory floor as a SALARIED employee, I KNOW where the fat is in management.

Most front line supervisors and engineers earn their pay and actually know what the plant is doing and can do. Above that it's mostly about writing reports and passing off those peoples knowledge as your own.

I disagree, hounder, much as you know I love you. Every manufacturing plant I've been in has run management lean and mean. Too lean, many said.

Don't know where you worked, but my employers in food manufacturing were very sensitive to overstaffing salaried workers and applied the same "more with less" ethos to management that they did to floor workers. As a supervisor on third shift way back when, I ran the entire General Mills facility in Cedar Rapids with one other person, a college intern who wasn't worth a fvck. Almost 300 people in four business units - cereal, frosting, fruit snacks and warehouse.

[houndawg]

Never said all management was useless, Poindexter; just sayin' that there is a lot of dead wood in the management ranks, just like there is in the unions, and you have to lead by example. Iacocca did. I spent over ten years on the factory floor as a SALARIED employee, I KNOW where the fat is in management.

Most front line supervisors and engineers earn their pay and actually know what the plant is doing and can do. Above that it's mostly about writing reports and passing off those peoples knowledge as your own.

I disagree, hounder, much as you know I love you. Every manufacturing plant I've been in has run management lean and mean. Too lean, many said.

Don't know where you worked, but my employers in food manufacturing were very sensitive to overstaffing salaried workers and applied the same "more with less" ethos to management that they did to floor workers. As a supervisor on third shift way back when, I ran the entire General Mills facility in Cedar Rapids with one other person, a college intern who wasn't worth a fvck. Almost 300 people in four business units - cereal, frosting, fruit snacks and warehouse.

My experience was in the exciting fields of commercial explosives and military ordnance for a fortune 500 company.

[houndawg]

Oh, HORSESHIT. If you have a union it might mean that you had bad management ONCE. But, unions are like herpes. Once you HAVE them, you can NEVER get rid of them. The unions that DO exist have typically been there for generations. And they spend the bulk of their time driving wedges between employees and management....spending ALL their time, money and energy convincing all line employees (like you, dawg) that ALL management is bloated, overpaid and inefficient, and is only there to **** over the poor prolitariate and steal all the profits....much like politics, their fearmongering is how they retain their power.

And like a good donk, you've fallen for their schtick hook, line and sinker.

For some reason, I thought you were smarter than that.

Except for the stupid generalization about Donks and the insult at the end, I agree with Z. Another thing dear old Grandpa Cat used to say is, "If you have a union, you probably deserve one."

Your grandpa made exactly the same point I am.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Unions. Another nail in the coffin of America.

Congratulations, donks.

More businesses need to tell the union jag offs to go fu*k themselves.

I love this story and it couldnt happen to a better town of Libtards.

[houndawg]

Unions. Another nail in the coffin of America.

Congratulations, donks.

More businesses need to tell the union jag offs to go fu*k themselves.

I love this story and it couldnt happen to a better town of Libtards.

Hell yeah, we could get anybody to fly 747s for 30K per year.

[Col Hogan]

More businesses need to tell the union jag offs to go fu*k themselves.

I love this story and it couldnt happen to a better town of Libtards.

Hell yeah, we could get anybody to fly 747s for 30K per year.

Supply and demand...to fly them, there aren't that many folks qualified...so you're dead wrong about $30K...

Now, lots of the manufacturing process can be done by H.S grads...a dime a dozen...so, yea...$30K sounds right...

[houndawg]

Hell yeah, we could get anybody to fly 747s for 30K per year.

Supply and demand...to fly them, there aren't that many folks qualified...so you're dead wrong about $30K...

Now, lots of the manufacturing process can be done by H.S grads...a dime a dozen...so, yea...$30K sounds right...

Meh. They can and have taught monkeys how to fly airplanes but they haven't been able to teach them how to build them or fix them yet. Anybody from Fuzzy's Tavern could be taught to fly an airplane. Same with cops and firefighters and teachers. None of them need more than the minimum wage.

[AZGrizFan]

True statement - however - it's a 1/2 truth...Unhappy workers vote in unions (true)
But try getting rid of a union once it's served it's purpose (voted in 50 years ago) good luck...

As for personal preference, only nine percent (9%) of non-union workers would like to join a union. That's right less than one-in-ten Americans think they need a Union... and a huge percentage of Americans, Eighty-one percent (81%) have a negative perception of Unions including union employees and would definately not want to be in a Union...

Workers have voted unions out just like they voted them in. Unions have been getting decertified for 30 years.

Your post reinforces my point that unions are whipping boys to divert attention from piss poor management. Less than 10% of our workforce is unionized but everything is the unions fault.

Can't compete abroad? Unions fault

Wouldn't spend the money to modernize your facility and remain competitive because it would lower your bonus? Unions fault.

Japanese kicking the living shit out of you in your own backyard, and doing it with American labor? Unions fault.

Strangling on bloated, inefficient, unproductive management? Unions fault
You have to lead by example if you want to be taken seriously when you ask for givebacks.

And YOUR post continues to blame MANAGEMENT for everything. In your world, NOTHING is the union's fault.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

If you want to earn more money DO IT YOURSELF, quit depending on everyone to GIVE you something, thats your problem and your mindset right there.

Do it yourself and quit depending on unions, government and your mom to take care of you.

[houndawg]

Workers have voted unions out just like they voted them in. Unions have been getting decertified for 30 years.

Your post reinforces my point that unions are whipping boys to divert attention from piss poor management. Less than 10% of our workforce is unionized but everything is the unions fault.

Can't compete abroad? Unions fault

Wouldn't spend the money to modernize your facility and remain competitive because it would lower your bonus? Unions fault.

Japanese kicking the living **** out of you in your own backyard, and doing it with American labor? Unions fault.

Strangling on bloated, inefficient, unproductive management? Unions fault
You have to lead by example if you want to be taken seriously when you ask for givebacks.

And YOUR post continues to blame MANAGEMENT for everything. In your world, NOTHING is the union's fault.

That's just pitiful, 'griz, all this time I thought you were playing the fool, not realizing that you couldn't help it.

I said management has to get it's own house in order before they start asking for givebacks from the people that actually make the product that provides their absurd bonuses for shuffling paper. You work on the overhead problem before you go after direct labor. Fat before muscle, son.

[Appaholic]

Supply and demand...to fly them, there aren't that many folks qualified...so you're dead wrong about $30K...

Now, lots of the manufacturing process can be done by H.S grads...a dime a dozen...so, yea...$30K sounds right...

Meh. They can and have taught monkeys how to fly airplanes but they haven't been able to teach them how to build them or fix them yet. Anybody from Fuzzy's Tavern could be taught to fly an airplane. Same with cops and firefighters and teachers. None of them need more than the minimum wage.

But have they taught the monkey's how to land the planes yet? & they have taught monkeys how to turn a wrench, just not how to diagnose the problem....that's why pilots & engineers get, nay, deserve the big bucks & wrench-turners & subway/bus drivers get & deserve no more than minimum wage....

[houndawg]

Meh. They can and have taught monkeys how to fly airplanes but they haven't been able to teach them how to build them or fix them yet. Anybody from Fuzzy's Tavern could be taught to fly an airplane. Same with cops and firefighters and teachers. None of them need more than the minimum wage.

But have they taught the monkey's how to land the planes yet? & they have taught monkeys how to turn a wrench, just not how to diagnose the problem....that's why pilots & engineers get, nay, deserve the big bucks & wrench-turners & subway/bus drivers get & deserve no more than minimum wage....

Such a high skilled job that there is time to take a nap between, say, Denver and Minneapolis?

[Appaholic]

But have they taught the monkey's how to land the planes yet? & they have taught monkeys how to turn a wrench, just not how to diagnose the problem....that's why pilots & engineers get, nay, deserve the big bucks & wrench-turners & subway/bus drivers get & deserve no more than minimum wage....

Such a high skilled job that there is time to take a nap between, say, Denver and Minneapolis?

or land a plane with no power in the Hudson river with no death or serious injurues.....yeah, I'll take the overpaid pilot, you can have the minimum wage pilot....

[houndawg]

Such a high skilled job that there is time to take a nap between, say, Denver and Minneapolis?

or land a plane with no power in the Hudson river with no death or serious injurues.....yeah, I'll take the overpaid pilot, you can have the minimum wage pilot....

Thank goodness for unions, eh?

[AZGrizFan]

I said management has to get it's own house in order before they start asking for givebacks from the people that actually make the product that provides their absurd bonuses for shuffling paper. You work on the overhead problem before you go after direct labor. Fat before muscle, son.

The "overhead" problem you so eloquently discuss goes all the way to the lowest paid union member on the assembly line, Spanky. Gotta have ONE union guy to put the bolt in, ANOTHER (different union) union guy to put the nut ON the bolt, ANOTHER (again, different union) union guy to twist the bolt, ANOTHER (different) union guy to quality check the previous three steps, etc., etc., etc. A dramatization, to be sure, but in reality, not too far from the actual truth.

The BLOAT, WASTE and FRAUD happens at the GROUND level. I've witnessed it in the construction industry, the power generation industry, the shipyard union workers. EVERYWHERE. God FORBID one man do something that belongs to a DIFFERENT union...might cost some fat, overpaid, underworked UNION guy to lose his fucking job. You (a good union mouthpiece) can continue to deny reality all you want, but there's a REASON union membership is declining. America is waking up.

Apparently, that does NOT include you, dawg. Get with the program....there's still time.