Machinists Union kills Seattle again....

[TwinTownBisonFan]

no, it's not... i've watched this phenomenon with my own eyes, time after time. it's not IAM that did this, Boeing will try hard to put this on them - but they were thrilled to be able to move this to S. Carolina where workers have no real rights.

No real rights? C'mon dude. Don't make a blanket statement that is 100% Bullshit. What's the issue with a Right to Work state? Unions served thier purpose but they f'd themselves when you'd have a high schooler mkaing $38/hr installing rear view mirrors. Bottom line, in any economy situation, is cost and profit. Do things cost less here vice Seattle? Probably? Can they train no-low skill workers to produce a product and competively pay them? Can they provide long lasting jobs? I'll tell you what, all those men and women that have been laid off from Bosch, America LaFrance, Force Protection, MRAP, etc...would be perfect candidates. I'm sure some of the people that worked for Honda would relocate for a good gig. Like Cleets said, as soon as it can strike, it will. It's done it before. Unions know they have the balls of the companies, in thier hands.
Oh Christ? You probably think the South is a bunch of hicks. Give me a redneck mechanic any day of the week over some high schooler that learn on the job and is grossly overpaid.

no rights. the issue with a "right to work state" (a misnomer right up there with "clear skies initiative" and "healthy forests policy") is that the people working in those states are basically serfs. the companies have ALL of the power - and they know it, and behave like it.

here's the rub with your entire theory about removing the unions from these kinds of jobs... without their protection, once they move that shit to a "right to work" it's only a matter of time before they ship it to China. why pay a South Carolinian $11/hour when you could pay and abuse a Chinese worker with state support no less for $2/day? the problem is, these right to work states are a stopping point on the way overseas.

look at all the companies you named above... they've all done this exact dance before. why do they move to the south first? so they have cover... plain and simple. if they just tried to move the job from seattle to guangzhu, the political pressure from the unions and american politicians would be intense, since guangzhu can't vote... but by moving it to the south first... you pit one group of Americans against each other... then you just claim "we can't make it work" and flee to asia in 10 years...

[AZGrizFan]

Unions. Another nail in the coffin of America.

Congratulations, donks.

Ahem, my little brother from Arizona. The unions were not a "Donk" creation. They were a natural reaction to unfair, obtuse and abusive Conk business practices. Go read up a bit on it.

Thank Conks for unions, my friends.

Pay attention, dumbass. I'm talking about the donk party whoring itself out to unions for the past 35 years, RIGHT at the point where unions would have stopped being relevant or necessary.

[Cleets Part 2]

Ahem, my little brother from Arizona. The unions were not a "Donk" creation. They were a natural reaction to unfair, obtuse and abusive Conk business practices. Go read up a bit on it.

Thank Conks for unions, my friends.

Pay attention, dumbass. I'm talking about the donk party whoring itself out to unions for the past 35 years, RIGHT at the point where unions would have stopped being relevant or necessary.

It's a horrible mess for the Democratic party in my opinion... it's as bad as the Evangelical Connection that the Republicans have strangling around their neck...

Twin Town has no position other than "It's the corporations fault"
Because if Democrats turn their back on the unions states like Michigan and Illinois go RED...

Frankly it's sad... I'm a Liberal and get called every name in the book around here...
But this one is easy to spot..!!!

[TheDancinMonarch]

no rights. the issue with a "right to work state" (a misnomer right up there with "clear skies initiative" and "healthy forests policy") is that the people working in those states are basically serfs. the companies have ALL of the power - and they know it, and behave like it.

Not to butt into this conversation but...

Virginia is a "right-to-work" state. We have elections here in Virginia. If we wanted to change the "right-to-work" law we certainly could. And I'm not sure but I think they have elections in those other "right-to-work" states also.

It's typical of most liberals. If you agree with them then it's power to the people. If you don't then you're stupid or a serf.

[Cleets Part 2]

no rights. the issue with a "right to work state" (a misnomer right up there with "clear skies initiative" and "healthy forests policy") is that the people working in those states are basically serfs. the companies have ALL of the power - and they know it, and behave like it.

Not to butt into this conversation but...

Virginia is a "right-to-work" state. We have elections here in Virginia. If we wanted to change the "right-to-work" law we certainly could. And I'm not sure but I think they have elections in those other "right-to-work" states also.

It's typical of most liberals. If you agree with them then it's power to the people. If you don't then you're stupid or a serf.

Blanket statements like "Typical of most Liberals"...Is Rush Limbaugh typical of most Conservatives..?
It makes it prudent to ignore most of what you say... Why not just speak for yourself..?

We don't need anymore SWEEPING observations... Okay Rush

[AZGrizFan]

Not to butt into this conversation but...

Virginia is a "right-to-work" state. We have elections here in Virginia. If we wanted to change the "right-to-work" law we certainly could. And I'm not sure but I think they have elections in those other "right-to-work" states also.

It's typical of most liberals. If you agree with them then it's power to the people. If you don't then you're stupid or a serf.

Blanket statements like "Typical of most Liberals"...Is Rush Limbaugh typical of most Conservatives..?
It makes it prudent to ignore most of what you say... Why not just speak for yourself..?

We don't need anymore SWEEPING observations... Okay Rush

Well, he IS the "leader of millions", right Mr. Enigo Montoya?

[CitadelGrad]

Pay attention, dumbass. I'm talking about the donk party whoring itself out to unions for the past 35 years, RIGHT at the point where unions would have stopped being relevant or necessary.

It's a horrible mess for the Democratic party in my opinion... it's as bad as the Evangelical Connection that the Republicans have strangling around their neck...

Twin Town has no position other than "It's the corporations fault"
Because if Democrats turn their back on the unions states like Michigan and Illinois go RED...

Frankly it's sad... I'm a Liberal and get called every name in the book around here...
But this one is easy to spot..!!!

You're a libertarian. Get it? I don't know how many times you have to be told.

[Cleets Part 2]

Blanket statements like "Typical of most Liberals"...Is Rush Limbaugh typical of most Conservatives..?
It makes it prudent to ignore most of what you say... Why not just speak for yourself..?

We don't need anymore SWEEPING observations... Okay Rush

Well, he IS the "leader of millions", right Mr. Enigo Montoya?

I'm just so tired of the "All Liberals do this" and "All Conservatives do that" kind of third grade intellectual position regarding ideologies... And funny thing is the people who typically make those comments are the most "Party Line" individuals you could find..!!! and Party Line politics requires ZERO thought...

It's a sheep like position..!!!

[Cap'n Cat]

Ahem, my little brother from Arizona. The unions were not a "Donk" creation. They were a natural reaction to unfair, obtuse and abusive Conk business practices. Go read up a bit on it.

Thank Conks for unions, my friends.

Pay attention, dumbass. I'm talking about the donk party whoring itself out to unions for the past 35 years, RIGHT at the point where unions would have stopped being relevant or necessary.

Does not EVEN COME CLOSE to the whoring and pandering put on by the Conks to this sh*t contingent:

[Col Hogan]

@ Colonel's chart...


While not defending any of those salaries, combined they are probably less than the total compesention of the top 3 or 4 Boeing Execs.


Let's just tax ALL compensation a person recieves from any source (salary, benefits, pension, bonus), etc above 100K at 100% and be done with it - but that include Government Contractors too...

Let's compare how much business (which equals jobs) those Boeing exec bring in with how many jobs the union presidents create...

Divide the salary by the jobs , and the union number will be ZERO...because they don't create anything...they just take from union members...

[Cleets Part 2]

You're a libertarian. Get it? I don't know how many times you have to be told.

I didn't want to hear that.... and yes I have been told that a few times..

I'm more of a Hippie (in my mind) Did I mention I love hippies...

[Cap'n Cat]

You're a libertarian. Get it? I don't know how many times you have to be told.

I didn't want to hear that.... and yes I have been told that a few times..

I'm more of a Hippie (in my mind) Did I mention I love hippies...

Col Hogan was a hippie.

[OSBF]

Well, he IS the "leader of millions", right Mr. Enigo Montoya?

I'm just so tired of the "All Liberals do this" and "All Conservatives do that" kind of third grade intellectual position regarding ideologies... And funny thing is the people who typically make those comments are the most "Party Line" individuals you could find..!!! and Party Line politics requires ZERO thought...

It's a sheep like position..!!!

where did shizang go? I really liked his avatar

[Chizzang]

I'm just so tired of the "All Liberals do this" and "All Conservatives do that" kind of third grade intellectual position regarding ideologies... And funny thing is the people who typically make those comments are the most "Party Line" individuals you could find..!!! and Party Line politics requires ZERO thought...

It's a sheep like position..!!!

where did shizang go? I really liked his avatar

Who..?

[OSBF]

where did shizang go? I really liked his avatar

Who..?

Man, she looks like she would do ya till it was raw.....

[CitadelGrad]

You're a libertarian. Get it? I don't know how many times you have to be told.

I didn't want to hear that.... and yes I have been told that a few times..

I'm more of a Hippie (in my mind) Did I mention I love hippies...

Hippie chicks are great if you can get past the smell. They put out at the sound of a bong rip.

[TheDancinMonarch]

Not to butt into this conversation but...

Virginia is a "right-to-work" state. We have elections here in Virginia. If we wanted to change the "right-to-work" law we certainly could. And I'm not sure but I think they have elections in those other "right-to-work" states also.

It's typical of most liberals. If you agree with them then it's power to the people. If you don't then you're stupid or a serf.

Blanket statements like "Typical of most Liberals"...Is Rush Limbaugh typical of most Conservatives..?
It makes it prudent to ignore most of what you say... Why not just speak for yourself..?

We don't need anymore SWEEPING observations... Okay Rush

Talk about a "change the subject " moment!

[Mountaineer]

South Carolina is the lowest of the low in offering incentives to lure companies to the state. They'd sell the souls of their grandmas if it meant getting a Cheez Whiz factory in Summerville.

North Carolina isn't much better. It's common with a lot of the "right-to-work" states in the South. We'll fuck each other over and put together ridiculous incentives packages (to multi-million/billion dollars companies I might add) for a few jobs.

Here's a story about Dell and their Winton-Salem plant. Opened four years ago, $280 million in incentives, they're closing it after four years and laying off 900 workers.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/busine ... 90134.html

The saving grace here is that the state is meeting with the company to see if any incentive money is owed and will be returned. These types of measures should be included in any package.

[OL FU]

They like our fringe benefits, no overtime, no insurance, no sick days, no bonuses, no paid time off. Argentine mistresses for everyone

[Ibanez]

No real rights? C'mon dude. Don't make a blanket statement that is 100% Bullshit. What's the issue with a Right to Work state? Unions served thier purpose but they f'd themselves when you'd have a high schooler mkaing $38/hr installing rear view mirrors. Bottom line, in any economy situation, is cost and profit. Do things cost less here vice Seattle? Probably? Can they train no-low skill workers to produce a product and competively pay them? Can they provide long lasting jobs? I'll tell you what, all those men and women that have been laid off from Bosch, America LaFrance, Force Protection, MRAP, etc...would be perfect candidates. I'm sure some of the people that worked for Honda would relocate for a good gig. Like Cleets said, as soon as it can strike, it will. It's done it before. Unions know they have the balls of the companies, in thier hands.
Oh Christ? You probably think the South is a bunch of hicks. Give me a redneck mechanic any day of the week over some high schooler that learn on the job and is grossly overpaid.

no rights. the issue with a "right to work state" (a misnomer right up there with "clear skies initiative" and "healthy forests policy") is that the people working in those states are basically serfs. the companies have ALL of the power - and they know it, and behave like it.

here's the rub with your entire theory about removing the unions from these kinds of jobs... without their protection, once they move that shit to a "right to work" it's only a matter of time before they ship it to China. why pay a South Carolinian $11/hour when you could pay and abuse a Chinese worker with state support no less for $2/day? the problem is, these right to work states are a stopping point on the way overseas.

look at all the companies you named above... they've all done this exact dance before. why do they move to the south first? so they have cover... plain and simple. if they just tried to move the job from seattle to guangzhu, the political pressure from the unions and american politicians would be intense, since guangzhu can't vote... but by moving it to the south first... you pit one group of Americans against each other... then you just claim "we can't make it work" and flee to asia in 10 years...

AND GAYS ARE A DANGER TO MARRIAGE!

[houndawg]

Wrong. The union offered 10 year no-strike deal in exchange for job security. It's management that won't compromise, and continues to rake in bonus money for twiddling their thumbs.

Yeah, because the Unions always comprimse for the better good. That's why Detroit is doing so well these days.

Detroit's problem is bloated, inefficient, incompetent, vastly overpaid management.

Lots of foreign companies, automotive and otherwise, are thrilled with the productivity of their American workers. The only reason there is a UAW is because of piss poor management.

We need to be exporting parasitical useless management jobs, not productive direct labor jobs.

[Chizzang]

Blanket statements like "Typical of most Liberals"...Is Rush Limbaugh typical of most Conservatives..?
It makes it prudent to ignore most of what you say... Why not just speak for yourself..?

We don't need anymore SWEEPING observations... Okay Rush

Talk about a "change the subject " moment!

Jane you ignorant slut...It's my own thread that I started...
I have enjoyed hearing peoples thoughts on this Union issue
until you dropped in your sweeping generalizations about a group of people that apparently you've met all 150 million of...

This ain't talk radio...

[OSBF]

Yeah, because the Unions always comprimse for the better good. That's why Detroit is doing so well these days.

Detroit's problem is bloated, inefficient, incompetent, vastly overpaid management.

Lots of foreign companies, automotive and otherwise, are thrilled with the productivity of their American workers. The only reason there is a UAW is because of piss poor management.

We need to be exporting parasitical useless management jobs, not productive direct labor jobs.

Detroit's problem is the complete inability to build a car that the American consumer wants to buy or has any faith in at all. They have been force feeding us shit since the late 70's. When the consumer correctly identified Honda, Toyota, etal, as viable alternatives, the slow steady descent into bankruptcy began. Now they have lost so much market share that recovery will be difficult if not impossible, even now that they are producing a product of significantly higher quality.

[AZGrizFan]

Yeah, because the Unions always comprimse for the better good. That's why Detroit is doing so well these days.

Detroit's problem is bloated, inefficient, incompetent, vastly overpaid management.

Lots of foreign companies, automotive and otherwise, are thrilled with the productivity of their American workers. The only reason there is a UAW is because of piss poor management.

We need to be exporting parasitical useless management jobs, not productive direct labor jobs.

Good lord. You have SERIOUSLY drunk the union koolaid.

[houndawg]

Detroit's problem is bloated, inefficient, incompetent, vastly overpaid management.

Lots of foreign companies, automotive and otherwise, are thrilled with the productivity of their American workers. The only reason there is a UAW is because of piss poor management.

We need to be exporting parasitical useless management jobs, not productive direct labor jobs.

Detroit's problem is the complete inability to build a car that the American consumer wants to buy or has any faith in at all. They have been force feeding us **** since the late 70's. When the consumer correctly identified Honda, Toyota, etal, as viable alternatives, the slow steady descent into bankruptcy began. Now they have lost so much market share that recovery will be difficult if not impossible, even now that they are producing a product of significantly higher quality.

Sounds like poor leadership to me.

If those multi-million-dollar-bonus boys would have kept their factories up to date they wouldn't have gotten our asses kicked nearly as badly. Their inability to look further down the road than the next quarterly report cost us our leadership position in the global auto industry. And now we've had to bail out their sorry asses again. And pay their effing bonuses for running the industry into the ground! Send them all to China and let them ruin somebody else's economy.