Weber State @ EWU Game Thread.

[AZGrizFan]

You want to know something REALLY sad? This game could draw 18,000 in MISSOULA.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

You want to know something REALLY sad? This game could draw 18,000 in MISSOULA.

Of course. Not like there's anything else to watch in Montana other than the Griz. No FBS, no NFL, no NHL, no MLB, no NBA. Montana's selection of sports entertainment is about as exciting as Ben Stein's delivery.

[AZGrizFan]

You want to know something REALLY sad? This game could draw 18,000 in MISSOULA.

Of course. Not like there's anything else to watch in Montana other than the Griz. No FBS, no NFL, no NHL, no MLB, no NBA. Montana's selection of sports entertainment is about as exciting as Ben Stein's delivery.

You don't have any of that shit in Cheney either and you draw 5,000.

Try again with your EWU logic, junior.

[weberwildcat]

You want to know something REALLY sad? This game could draw 18,000 in MISSOULA.

LOOOOL

[weberwildcat]

EWU not ranked in CS poll. Is it for real or an error. I'm a voter and I know I had EWU in the top 15.

ChampionshipSubdivision.com Top 25 Football Poll
10/7/2009
1. Villanova Wildcats
2. Richmond Spiders
3. Northern Iowa Panthers
4. New Hampshire Wildcats
5. Montana Grizzlies
6. Southern Illinois Salukis
7. William & Mary Tribe
8. McNeese State Cowboys
9. Central Arkansas Bears
10. Elon Phoenix
11. Appalachian State Mountaineers
12. Massachusetts Minutemen
13. Cal Poly Mustangs
14. James Madison Dukes
15. South Dakota State Jackrabbits
16. Eastern Kentucky Colonels
17. South Carolina State Bulldogs
18. Jacksonville State Gamecocks
19. Weber State Wildcats
20. Holy Cross Crusaders
21. Colgate Raiders
22. Montana State Bobcats
23. Delaware Fightin’ Blue Hens
24. Furman Paladins
25. Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Of course. Not like there's anything else to watch in Montana other than the Griz. No FBS, no NFL, no NHL, no MLB, no NBA. Montana's selection of sports entertainment is about as exciting as Ben Stein's delivery.

You don't have any of that shit in Cheney either and you draw 5,000.

Try again with your EWU logic, junior.

No we don't, but we do around our region of sports fans. My argument is that because there is no other major sports team to draw a fan base in Montana, virtually everyone is a fan of the Griz so when there's a game, people from all over go. And because there are many college/pro sports teams around WA/OR, team/sport affiliations are spread all over amongst fans across the area.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

EWU not ranked in CS poll. Is it for real or an error. I'm a voter and I know I had EWU in the top 15.

ChampionshipSubdivision.com Top 25 Football Poll
10/7/2009
1. Villanova Wildcats
2. Richmond Spiders
3. Northern Iowa Panthers
4. New Hampshire Wildcats
5. Montana Grizzlies
6. Southern Illinois Salukis
7. William & Mary Tribe
8. McNeese State Cowboys
9. Central Arkansas Bears
10. Elon Phoenix
11. Appalachian State Mountaineers
12. Massachusetts Minutemen
13. Cal Poly Mustangs
14. James Madison Dukes
15. South Dakota State Jackrabbits
16. Eastern Kentucky Colonels
17. South Carolina State Bulldogs
18. Jacksonville State Gamecocks
19. Weber State Wildcats
20. Holy Cross Crusaders
21. Colgate Raiders
22. Montana State Bobcats
23. Delaware Fightin’ Blue Hens
24. Furman Paladins
25. Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks

I had us at 13. Every member that has noticed we're not in there said they voted for EWU, so I'm thinking it's an error.


It BETTER BE an error...

[CrunchGriz]

You want to know something REALLY sad? This game could draw 18,000 in MISSOULA.

Of course. Not like there's anything else to watch in Montana other than the Griz. No FBS, no NFL, no NHL, no MLB, no NBA. Montana's selection of sports entertainment is about as exciting as Ben Stein's delivery.

Check out my blog post on this topic, below. Washington, like all the rest of the Western states with an FCS team with the possible exception of Utah, simply underperforms Montana in Div I football game attendance.

Simply put, the "we have more options" meme is a myth.

http://crnich.dyndns.org/wp/?p=67

[EWURanger]

Of course. Not like there's anything else to watch in Montana other than the Griz. No FBS, no NFL, no NHL, no MLB, no NBA. Montana's selection of sports entertainment is about as exciting as Ben Stein's delivery.

Check out my blog post on this topic, below. Washington, like all the rest of the Western states with an FCS team with the possible exception of Utah, simply underperforms Montana in Div I football game attendance.

Simply put, the "we have more options" meme is a myth.

http://crnich.dyndns.org/wp/?p=67

I read the article, and I understand your logic, but I think there's a little more to it than figures on a chart. All the statistics aside, Montana just doesn't have to deal with the "big brother" syndrome that EWU, PSU, ISU, NAU, WSU, and just about every other Big Sky school does. I mean, if you look at the Spokane market alone, there are 4 Division I schools in a 90 mile radius, not to mention smaller schools like Whitworth. And while I'll admit that a school of roughly 10,000 kids should draw better than we do, I chalk that more up to the necessity of improvement in facilities. And although they are going in the right direction, there's still a long ways to go before EWU will have the type of facilities that will enable them to draw crows of over 10,000 on a consitent basis.

Andways, back on topic. Your argument seems to be based on the notion that only Division I schools will compete against other Division I schools in terms of fan support: You are leaving out other variables such as Professional teams - Spokane Chiefs, Indians, Shock, Spiders....that schools in this area have to compete with.

With all that said, you won't get an argument from me that fans in Montana generally *are* more supportive of their teams, but I don't think it's quite as black and white as you put it. There's a lot more variables in there......

And although I will always have the highest respect for what Montana has achieved with their program (envy of just about every FCS school), let's face it - UM is a big fish in a small pond. Nothing wrong with that, just is what it is.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Of course. Not like there's anything else to watch in Montana other than the Griz. No FBS, no NFL, no NHL, no MLB, no NBA. Montana's selection of sports entertainment is about as exciting as Ben Stein's delivery.

Check out my blog post on this topic, below. Washington, like all the rest of the Western states with an FCS team with the possible exception of Utah, simply underperforms Montana in Div I football game attendance.

Simply put, the "we have more options" meme is a myth.

http://crnich.dyndns.org/wp/?p=67

I never disputed that Montana draws a higher percentage of fans from the state compared to other states'. Montana would have to be pretty horrible to draw a lower percentage than other states based upon how small the state population is. But to make inferences based upon that ratio is a complete logical fallacy, as a ratio of potential fan population per Div. 1 team has no relationship to the strength of the fan base, nor can any inference be made as to why the fans of UM chose UM to support. Not to mention your very unscientific analysis of a couple numbers completely disregards FBS vs. FCS, and how much said teams draw on average annually vs. each other and compared to state populations. Disproving my argument cannot be done using the numbers you used.

So to restate what I've already said, the UM Football Program, in essence, is the FCS, FBS, and NFL team of Montana. People tend to support and become fans of teams they identify with, which more times than not, is because they're a local team, which in my opinion includes people from the state of Montana and everyone that attended or attends the University (or is simply a family member of someone who attends or attended UM). I'm not saying that UM's history of winning isn't a part of it, because I'm sure it is. But it's not the only reason. EWU has had a winning record for 9 out of the last 10 seasons, but our fan base is still small. EWU also has a much smaller attendance # than UW and WSU, and therefore a LOT fewer alumni than those two universities, which partly explains why everyone follows them instead of us, despite EWU's recent history of winning, and the two FBS teams' recent history of losing. $ also has a role in it, as UM, WSU and UW have a lot more of it to invest in marketing/communications than smaller universities such as EWU.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Check out my blog post on this topic, below. Washington, like all the rest of the Western states with an FCS team with the possible exception of Utah, simply underperforms Montana in Div I football game attendance.

Simply put, the "we have more options" meme is a myth.

http://crnich.dyndns.org/wp/?p=67

I read the article, and I understand your logic, but I think there's a little more to it than figures on a chart. All the statistics aside, Montana just doesn't have to deal with the "big brother" syndrome that EWU, PSU, ISU, NAU, WSU, and just about every other Big Sky school does. I mean, if you look at the Spokane market alone, there are 4 Division I schools in a 90 mile radius, not to mention smaller schools like Whitworth. And while I'll admit that a school of roughly 10,000 kids should draw better than we do, I chalk that more up to the necessity of improvement in facilities. And although they are going in the right direction, there's still a long ways to go before EWU will have the type of facilities that will enable them to draw crows of over 10,000 on a consitent basis.

Andways, back on topic. Your argument seems to be based on the notion that only Division I schools will compete against other Division I schools in terms of fan support: You are leaving out other variables such as Professional teams - Spokane Chiefs, Indians, Shock, Spiders....that schools in this area have to compete with.

With all that said, you won't get an argument from me that fans in Montana generally *are* more supportive of their teams, but I don't think it's quite as black and white as you put it. There's a lot more variables in there......

And although I will always have the highest respect for what Montana has achieved with their program (envy of just about every FCS school), let's face it - UM is a big fish in a small pond. Nothing wrong with that, just is what it is.

Said differently, but you pretty much hit it spot on.

[AZGrizFan]

No we don't, but we do around our region of sports fans. My argument is that because there is no other major sports team to draw a fan base in Montana, virtually everyone is a fan of the Griz so when there's a game, people from all over go. And because there are many college/pro sports teams around WA/OR, team/sport affiliations are spread all over amongst fans across the area.

Define your "region"? You don't have a pro team within 300 miles---and they ALL suck. You don't have an FBS team worth a shit within 300 miles.

The "one horse town nothing else to do" schtick gets a tad old...Is that why there's 300 people in Dukes every Saturday in PHOENIX ARIZONA to watch the Griz? Because there's nothing to do HERE either? And there's 40 bars just like that all across the U.S.

You guys who are fans of teams with no following will just NEVER get it.

[AZGrizFan]

So to restate what I've already said, the UM Football Program, in essence, is the FCS, FBS, and NFL team of Montana. People tend to support and become fans of teams they identify with, which more times than not, is because they're a local team, which in my opinion includes people from the state of Montana and everyone that attended or attends the University (or is simply a family member of someone who attends or attended UM).

If that were the cause, Montana State would draw 25,000 every weekend too.

[weberwildcat]

Of course. Not like there's anything else to watch in Montana other than the Griz. No FBS, no NFL, no NHL, no MLB, no NBA. Montana's selection of sports entertainment is about as exciting as Ben Stein's delivery.

Check out my blog post on this topic, below. Washington, like all the rest of the Western states with an FCS team with the possible exception of Utah, simply underperforms Montana in Div I football game attendance.

Simply put, the "we have more options" meme is a myth.

http://crnich.dyndns.org/wp/?p=67

Main Attraction:
Montana - UM
Idaho - Boise St
Utah - LameYU
WA - Udub/Wazzu
Ore - Ducks
CA - Long list before Sac
AZ - AZ/ASU



Options could be a factor but not the reason. What is Glendive Community College or MSU-Billings attendance average? I would guess not 25,000.

[weberwildcat]

EWU not ranked in CS poll. Is it for real or an error. I'm a voter and I know I had EWU in the top 15.

ChampionshipSubdivision.com Top 25 Football Poll
10/7/2009
1. Villanova Wildcats
2. Richmond Spiders
3. Northern Iowa Panthers
4. New Hampshire Wildcats
5. Montana Grizzlies
6. Southern Illinois Salukis
7. William & Mary Tribe
8. McNeese State Cowboys
9. Central Arkansas Bears
10. Elon Phoenix
11. Appalachian State Mountaineers
12. Massachusetts Minutemen
13. Cal Poly Mustangs
14. James Madison Dukes
15. South Dakota State Jackrabbits
16. Eastern Kentucky Colonels
17. South Carolina State Bulldogs
18. Jacksonville State Gamecocks
19. Weber State Wildcats
20. Holy Cross Crusaders
21. Colgate Raiders
22. Montana State Bobcats
23. Delaware Fightin’ Blue Hens
24. Furman Paladins
25. Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks

I had us at 13. Every member that has noticed we're not in there said they voted for EWU, so I'm thinking it's an error.


It BETTER BE an error...

I had EWU at 14/15 I think, WSU at 22 or 23.

[AZGrizFan]

I had EWU @ 14.

[weberwildcat]

Although EWU is favored at home by 9.81 points over Weber State, according to the latest Sagarin "predictor" calculations, this weekend should be a great game.

There is good news for EWU: Taiwan Jones!

There is good news for Weber:

1. The EWU defense will not be as tough as the MSU defense. Expect 500+ yards from Higgins and Co., and barring mistakes, a lot of scoring!

2. Kevin Linehan is healthy and Ryan Eastman will be back on the Wildcat defensive line after being MIA for the past two games. This is huge for WSU.

If Weber wins the turnover battler, the Wildcats will win.

If Eastman can pick up where he left off in early September it will have a huge impact for our Dline especially going against a VERY good runningback.

[EWURanger]

And this thread is finally back on track..........

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Eastern winning this game will hinge on winning the turnover battle, which means our front 4 need to get pressure on Higgins. It seems like everytime he gets pressured, he makes another bad play and turns the ball over.

[cats2506]

Both Montana and Montana State benifit greatly because FCS football is highest level of any sporting event in the state. Both schools from a relativly small population state are in the top 12 for FCS attendance in the nation.

The eagles are right on this one.

[AZGrizFan]

Both Montana and Montana State benifit greatly because FCS football is highest level of any sporting event in the state. Both schools from a relativly small population state are in the top 12 for FCS attendance in the nation.

The eagles are right on this one.

And yet, if we went 3-8 every year we'd still be playing at Dornblazer in front of 3500. It ain't rocket science.

[BlackFalkin]

EWU not ranked in CS poll. Is it for real or an error. I'm a voter and I know I had EWU in the top 15.

ChampionshipSubdivision.com Top 25 Football Poll
10/7/2009
1. Villanova Wildcats
2. Richmond Spiders
3. Northern Iowa Panthers
4. New Hampshire Wildcats
5. Montana Grizzlies
6. Southern Illinois Salukis
7. William & Mary Tribe
8. McNeese State Cowboys
9. Central Arkansas Bears
10. Elon Phoenix
11. Appalachian State Mountaineers
12. Massachusetts Minutemen
13. Cal Poly Mustangs
14. James Madison Dukes
15. South Dakota State Jackrabbits
16. Eastern Kentucky Colonels
17. South Carolina State Bulldogs
18. Jacksonville State Gamecocks
19. Weber State Wildcats
20. Holy Cross Crusaders
21. Colgate Raiders
22. Montana State Bobcats
23. Delaware Fightin’ Blue Hens
24. Furman Paladins
25. Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks

I had us at 13. Every member that has noticed we're not in there said they voted for EWU, so I'm thinking it's an error.


It BETTER BE an error...

I dont think it was an error if you ask me... I think 'somebody' thinks it's funny.

[CrunchGriz]

Check out my blog post on this topic, below. Washington, like all the rest of the Western states with an FCS team with the possible exception of Utah, simply underperforms Montana in Div I football game attendance.

Simply put, the "we have more options" meme is a myth.

http://crnich.dyndns.org/wp/?p=67

I never disputed that Montana draws a higher percentage of fans from the state compared to other states'. Montana would have to be pretty horrible to draw a lower percentage than other states based upon how small the state population is. But to make inferences based upon that ratio is a complete logical fallacy, as a ratio of potential fan population per Div. 1 team has no relationship to the strength of the fan base, nor can any inference be made as to why the fans of UM chose UM to support. Not to mention your very unscientific analysis of a couple numbers completely disregards FBS vs. FCS, and how much said teams draw on average annually vs. each other and compared to state populations. Disproving my argument cannot be done using the numbers you used.

So to restate what I've already said, the UM Football Program, in essence, is the FCS, FBS, and NFL team of Montana. People tend to support and become fans of teams they identify with, which more times than not, is because they're a local team, which in my opinion includes people from the state of Montana and everyone that attended or attends the University (or is simply a family member of someone who attends or attended UM). I'm not saying that UM's history of winning isn't a part of it, because I'm sure it is. But it's not the only reason. EWU has had a winning record for 9 out of the last 10 seasons, but our fan base is still small. EWU also has a much smaller attendance # than UW and WSU, and therefore a LOT fewer alumni than those two universities, which partly explains why everyone follows them instead of us, despite EWU's recent history of winning, and the two FBS teams' recent history of losing. $ also has a role in it, as UM, WSU and UW have a lot more of it to invest in marketing/communications than smaller universities such as EWU.

I think you're misinterpreting my interpretation. Montana draws more of its available state population per resident FCS/FBS team than any other Western FCS-bearing state. Period. You can spin that any way you want, but unless you're saying that Washington, for example, just doesn't have as many college football fans per capita, it means that Montana natives--on average--support their teams better than the other Western states.

I never said there was any particular cause, other than winning. There are probably numerous causes. It's your school's obligation to figure out how to cultivate fans, not mine, and you can hardly blame UM for doing so--but the evidence is incontrovertible that UM has, in greater relative numbers than the other FCS teams in our area.

Your initial statement above (bolded) makes no sense to me.

And of course alumni numbers come into play, but I think you're completely missing the primary cause. I seriously doubt that Montana has 3 or 4 times as many living alums as EWU, yet they outdraw them by that much.

Winning is the thing. Montana is a huge case in point: Before Don Read came to Montana, crowds of a few thousand, much like what you still see at many of the other Big Sky schools, were the norm. After the addition of a new stadium and a few years of winning (though not generally playoff) years, the crowds went up a fair bit, and then after they started making the playoffs on a regular basis the demand skyrocketed.

If your team were a perennial playoff team, the demand would be there, even in Cheney, even as a smaller brother to WSU and UW. You'll notice that I'm not claiming that the better Montana support indicates any moral or some such superiority of Montana fans. Everybody loves a winner, that's all.

Carroll College in Helena is another good example. They recently drew 8,000 to an NAIA game (albeit homecoming, but still). How can they draw such crowds? Because they've won 5 of the last 7 NAIA national championships, and been in the title game in one of the two years they didn't win.

Just win, baby!

All that being said, it's a bit of a chicken and egg problem in some other ways: Increased performance requires financial commitment (better stadium, etc.), but financial commitment often doesn't come without better performance first.

Montana was just lucky to have a perfect storm after Don Read came in, with immediately better teams, a new stadium in his first season which boosted the attendance, which further boosted the booster dollars, which further boosted performance, etc.

[AZGrizFan]

[

Winning is the thing. Montana is a huge case in point: Before Don Read came to Montana, crowds of a few thousand, much like what you still see at many of the other Big Sky schools, were the norm. After the addition of a new stadium and a few years of winning (though not generally playoff) years, the crowds went up a fair bit, and then after they started making the playoffs on a regular basis the demand skyrocketed.

If your team were a perennial playoff team, the demand would be there, even in Cheney, even as a smaller brother to WSU and UW. You'll notice that I'm not claiming that the better Montana support indicates any moral or some such superiority of Montana fans. Everybody loves a winner, that's all.

Carroll College in Helena is another good example. They recently drew 8,000 to an NAIA game (albeit homecoming, but still). How can they draw such crowds? Because they've won 5 of the last 7 NAIA national championships, and been in the title game in one of the two years they didn't win.

Just win, baby!

.

Which was really my point about playing FBS games for money. You're plugging a hole in the dike with money while water is pouring over the top. FBS games are a stop-gap solution to a long term problem----developing fan support. And the only REAL way to develop fan support is to win. Starting out every year 0-2 dos NOT endear oneself to the fanbase; it doesn't lead to a high ranking, nor does it improve your chances at making the playoffs. And until a school does both of THOSE things on a regular basis, the fans will NEVER come.

[Wildcat Ryan]

On the subject of Montana having a great fanbase, WE KNOW, good for them, we dont have to be reminded of it every freaking day. Its easy to have a great fanbase, when your an FCS team in an FCS dominated state, in Utah, there are 3 FBS schools within about 100 miles of each other, and 5 total division 1 teams. When your not the biggest show in the state, you wont get as big a crowds as the big shows, BYU and Utah they are the biggest show, they are all the media talk about. You can talk about fans from other states, but what does that prove? "Hey I saw a Montana fan in Florida" ok so a guy that lived in Montana moves to Florida and Montana is well known? I have 3 friends, who are ironically a LameYU, a Utah and a UTah State fan, NONE of them new who Montana was before i told them, despite Montana coming to Ogden every year.
Bet you anything Weber's basketball victories over Michigan State and North Carolina are more known about than Montana's 2 FCS National Titles.

Having said that I congradulate Montana for having built a powerhouse program, that has continually dominated the Big Sky, and contended well for the NC. But Im leaving it at that, If Montana is embarassed by being in the Big SKy, then they should leave.

On the subject of EWU, dont let thier schedule fool you, THEY ARE GOOD. Weber will have thier hands full, and Im still sticking with my prediction of an offensive shootout.