Venezuelan War

[Caribbean Hen]

The UN isn't completely worthless. It has had some value since it was created.

Rand Paul said that "off the coast of Miami, the Coast Guard will be stopping boats today and about 25% of the boats that they stop that they’re suspicious of drugs, there won’t be any drugs on board. So 25% of the time the suspicion is wrong". If that number is close to accurate for off the coast of Venezuela then trump is guilty of murder for the lives on approximately 25% of the boats we're blowing up. That's too many.

The whole "guilty of murder" thing is really no different than the charge against many ex Presidents - Obama pretty much ran an assassination-by-drone thing throughout his Presidency like some kind of one man Star Chamber, W got us into two different theaters of war where the basis for many deaths was questionable at best. Clinton fired off missiles to kill maybe terrorists in far flung parts of the world. But really, the phrasing is meant to be provocative and argumentative. I don't need it to get politically personal, I just need the President to show the evidence of what he's doing and why. If there are drugs on those boats it wouldn't take much to capture even just one. Like I said, we're spending a fortune camping an aircraft carrier group in the Caribbean and we spend a ton every time we fire off an expensive missile. It's actually cheaper and easily more transparent to just capture one of these boats and show off the cargo for everyone to see. We should be getting close to the shutdown ending, so Congress can also take a look at what we caught and give the President authority to keep using force if it's necessary.

I have to admit when I read that part it reminded me of Christopher Columbus bringing back a half dozen Taino captives on his first voyage to show to the King and Queen of Spain back in 1493….

Anyway, that would be quite a spectacle having some modern day “captives” that were interdicted at sea down in the Caribbean and paraded into the Oval Office in a cage
For King Trump to display for the media

[Caribbean Hen]

Yes — Christopher Columbus did bring Taíno people back to Spain after his first voyage in 1492–1493.

Here’s what happened:
• When Columbus returned to Spain in early 1493, he brought with him several Taíno captives from the islands he had encountered (mainly from Hispaniola and surrounding areas).
• His goal was to show King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella “proof” of his discoveries

[kalm]

Yes — Christopher Columbus did bring Taíno people back to Spain after his first voyage in 1492–1493.

Here’s what happened:
• When Columbus returned to Spain in early 1493, he brought with him several Taíno captives from the islands he had encountered (mainly from Hispaniola and surrounding areas).
• His goal was to show King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella “proof” of his discoveries

Ah yes…the charming glory of colonialism. Did Columbus rape the girls ge brought back and cut off a few hands before showing his catch?

[Caribbean Hen]

Yes — Christopher Columbus did bring Taíno people back to Spain after his first voyage in 1492–1493.

Here’s what happened:
• When Columbus returned to Spain in early 1493, he brought with him several Taíno captives from the islands he had encountered (mainly from Hispaniola and surrounding areas).
• His goal was to show King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella “proof” of his discoveries

Ah yes…the charming glory of colonialism. Did Columbus rape the girls ge brought back and cut off a few hands before showing his catch?

The Spanish were cruel, but 500 years ago they lived in a cruel world

Although Puerto Rican professors constantly tell their students that the worst day in Puerto Rican history was 1898, I always said the worst day was 1492 when the Tiano sighted the Spanish Barque on the horizon

[GannonFan]

The whole "guilty of murder" thing is really no different than the charge against many ex Presidents - Obama pretty much ran an assassination-by-drone thing throughout his Presidency like some kind of one man Star Chamber, W got us into two different theaters of war where the basis for many deaths was questionable at best. Clinton fired off missiles to kill maybe terrorists in far flung parts of the world. But really, the phrasing is meant to be provocative and argumentative. I don't need it to get politically personal, I just need the President to show the evidence of what he's doing and why. If there are drugs on those boats it wouldn't take much to capture even just one. Like I said, we're spending a fortune camping an aircraft carrier group in the Caribbean and we spend a ton every time we fire off an expensive missile. It's actually cheaper and easily more transparent to just capture one of these boats and show off the cargo for everyone to see. We should be getting close to the shutdown ending, so Congress can also take a look at what we caught and give the President authority to keep using force if it's necessary.

I have to admit when I read that part it reminded me of Christopher Columbus bringing back a half dozen Taino captives on his first voyage to show to the King and Queen of Spain back in 1493….

Anyway, that would be quite a spectacle having some modern day “captives” that were interdicted at sea down in the Caribbean and paraded into the Oval Office in a cage
For King Trump to display for the media

No need for the Oval Office and a cage, a modern courtroom will be just fine. Let's prove what's going on and there'll be more support. Blowing up that submarine was an example - pretty sure most fishermen aren't doing so in a submersible. But selling the story of what we're doing and why, with proof, would go a long way to legitimizing it, assuming it can be legitimate.

[GannonFan]

Yes — Christopher Columbus did bring Taíno people back to Spain after his first voyage in 1492–1493.

Here’s what happened:
• When Columbus returned to Spain in early 1493, he brought with him several Taíno captives from the islands he had encountered (mainly from Hispaniola and surrounding areas).
• His goal was to show King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella “proof” of his discoveries

Ah yes…the charming glory of colonialism. Did Columbus rape the girls ge brought back and cut off a few hands before showing his catch?

I didn't realize Columbus and Hamas had things in common, go figure.

[Caribbean Hen]

I have to admit when I read that part it reminded me of Christopher Columbus bringing back a half dozen Taino captives on his first voyage to show to the King and Queen of Spain back in 1493….

Anyway, that would be quite a spectacle having some modern day “captives” that were interdicted at sea down in the Caribbean and paraded into the Oval Office in a cage
For King Trump to display for the media

No need for the Oval Office and a cage, a modern courtroom will be just fine. Let's prove what's going on and there'll be more support. Blowing up that submarine was an example - pretty sure most fishermen aren't doing so in a submersible. But selling the story of what we're doing and why, with proof, would go a long way to legitimizing it, assuming it can be legitimate.

It was a spoof … without the absurd cartoon but I’m sure you could imagine what it might look like

But the idea of showing us who these people are just wouldn’t work

Besides, why would the smugglers be any different now than who they’ve been for the past 40 years?

And everyone of these drug smugglers who has ever been arrested always say we’re just out fishing….

[GannonFan]

No need for the Oval Office and a cage, a modern courtroom will be just fine. Let's prove what's going on and there'll be more support. Blowing up that submarine was an example - pretty sure most fishermen aren't doing so in a submersible. But selling the story of what we're doing and why, with proof, would go a long way to legitimizing it, assuming it can be legitimate.

It was a spoof … without the absurd cartoon but I’m sure you could imagine what it might look like

But the idea of showing us who these people are just wouldn’t work

Besides, why would the smugglers be any different now than who they’ve been for the past 40 years?

And everyone of these drug smugglers who has ever been arrested always say we’re just out fishing….

That's why you show the boatload of drugs along with the people smuggling them. Imagine if we just had a photo of one of the boats loaded to the gills in drugs. Would go a long way to making this seem more legit.

[Caribbean Hen]

It was a spoof … without the absurd cartoon but I’m sure you could imagine what it might look like

But the idea of showing us who these people are just wouldn’t work

Besides, why would the smugglers be any different now than who they’ve been for the past 40 years?

And everyone of these drug smugglers who has ever been arrested always say we’re just out fishing….

That's why you show the boatload of drugs along with the people smuggling them. Imagine if we just had a photo of one of the boats loaded to the gills in drugs. Would go a long way to making this seem more legit.

Well, I’ve always said what happens in the Caribbean stays in the Caribbean and I realize nobody was looking at those press releases over the past 40 years that come out about once every few weeeks. They show the drugs stacked up.
They also give the weight and the dollar amount and usually include some info on the smugglers, but usually don’t include pictures of those arrested

But OK, now that the eyes of the media are actually paying attention we could show one

[GannonFan]

That's why you show the boatload of drugs along with the people smuggling them. Imagine if we just had a photo of one of the boats loaded to the gills in drugs. Would go a long way to making this seem more legit.

Well, I’ve always said what happens in the Caribbean stays in the Caribbean and I realize nobody was looking at those press releases over the past 40 years that come out about once every few weeeks. They show the drugs stacked up.
They also give the weight and the dollar amount and usually include some info on the smugglers, but usually don’t include pictures of those arrested

But OK, now that the eyes of the media are actually paying attention we could show one

Yes, once you start blowing up boats and drugs and people with weaponry costing millions of dollars while sending an entire air craft carrier attack group (probably costs a fair amount too), you're going to need to step up the game of communications. Pointing to press releases over the past 40 years won't cut it.

[Caribbean Hen]

Well, I’ve always said what happens in the Caribbean stays in the Caribbean and I realize nobody was looking at those press releases over the past 40 years that come out about once every few weeeks. They show the drugs stacked up.
They also give the weight and the dollar amount and usually include some info on the smugglers, but usually don’t include pictures of those arrested

But OK, now that the eyes of the media are actually paying attention we could show one

Yes, once you start blowing up boats and drugs and people with weaponry costing millions of dollars while sending an entire air craft carrier attack group (probably costs a fair amount too), you're going to need to step up the game of communications. Pointing to press releases over the past 40 years won't cut it.

Neither would some type of announcement on the next boat if it wasn’t blown up

Nobody would change their mind. It might even make it worse.

[GannonFan]

Yes, once you start blowing up boats and drugs and people with weaponry costing millions of dollars while sending an entire air craft carrier attack group (probably costs a fair amount too), you're going to need to step up the game of communications. Pointing to press releases over the past 40 years won't cut it.

Neither would some type of announcement on the next boat if it wasn’t blown up

Nobody would change their mind. It might even make it worse.

It only makes it worse if it turns out we were wrong and the boats aren't hauling illegal drugs. If the boats are as chocked full of drugs as we're being told, that seems to be a non-issue.

[Caribbean Hen]

Trump could show us a boat with a gazillion kilos and it still wouldn’t make a difference, the opposition is just not gonna support Trump blowing up boats or support him with anything he does

[GannonFan]

Trump could show us a boat with a gazillion kilos and it still wouldn’t make a difference, the opposition is just not gonna support Trump blowing up boats or support him with anything he does

You just can't sustain this. We have an entire air craft attack group committed to blowing up speed boats in and around a fairly unimportant country in the Caribbean, apparently so loaded with drugs that we can't show a single bit of evidence of, and you're saying "oh, whatever". There's always political opposition to everything, that's the nature of politics. But that doesn't mean you just say "f*** it" and just do whatever you want to do and provide zero evidence to back it up because the other side of the aisle will be critical of it. That's just sh***y leadership for something that should be a slam dunk. Defend what you're doing with even a sliver of evidence, since to date there's been zero evidence. At least then you've done your due diligence regardless of what political opponents may say.

[Caribbean Hen]

Trump could show us a boat with a gazillion kilos and it still wouldn’t make a difference, the opposition is just not gonna support Trump blowing up boats or support him with anything he does

You just can't sustain this. We have an entire air craft attack group committed to blowing up speed boats in and around a fairly unimportant country in the Caribbean, apparently so loaded with drugs that we can't show a single bit of evidence of, and you're saying "oh, whatever". There's always political opposition to everything, that's the nature of politics. But that doesn't mean you just say "f*** it" and just do whatever you want to do and provide zero evidence to back it up because the other side of the aisle will be critical of it. That's just sh***y leadership for something that should be a slam dunk. Defend what you're doing with even a sliver of evidence, since to date there's been zero evidence. At least then you've done your due diligence regardless of what political opponents may say.

I wouldn’t call Venezuela unimportant.. you have a thug dictator hosting every rogue country in the world who is not friendly with the USA. They are also hosting terrorist training

Maduro is lining his and his cronies pockets with millions and millions because of the drugs he’s sending and allowing to depart his country.

You’re right it might be sustainable in the long-term and that’s why Trump is blowing up these boats to try to reach his objective quickly… Maduro out

Did i mention oil and minerals yet …. Probably what all of this is really about … the drug war part is just a side hustle

[GannonFan]

You just can't sustain this. We have an entire air craft attack group committed to blowing up speed boats in and around a fairly unimportant country in the Caribbean, apparently so loaded with drugs that we can't show a single bit of evidence of, and you're saying "oh, whatever". There's always political opposition to everything, that's the nature of politics. But that doesn't mean you just say "f*** it" and just do whatever you want to do and provide zero evidence to back it up because the other side of the aisle will be critical of it. That's just sh***y leadership for something that should be a slam dunk. Defend what you're doing with even a sliver of evidence, since to date there's been zero evidence. At least then you've done your due diligence regardless of what political opponents may say.

I wouldn’t call Venezuela unimportant.. you have a thug dictator hosting every rogue country in the world who is not friendly with the USA. They are also hosting terrorist training

Maduro is lining his and his cronies pockets with millions and millions because of the drugs he’s sending and allowing to depart his country.

You’re right it might be sustainable in the long-term and that’s why Trump is blowing up these boats to try to reach his objective quickly… Maduro out

Did i mention oil and minerals yet …. Probably what all of this is really about … the drug war part is just a side hustle

Show. The. Proof.

[Caribbean Hen]

The United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, Jay Clayton, and the Acting Administrator of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (“DEA”), Robert Murphy, announced today that former Venezuelan general HUGO ARMANDO CARVAJAL BARRIOS, a/k/a “El Pollo,” pled guilty before U.S. District Judge Alvin K. Hellerstein to conspiracy to import cocaine into the United States, engaging in narco-terrorism for the benefit of the Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia (the “FARC”), and related weapons offenses.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/fo ... rafficking

[Caribbean Hen]

“Over the last decade, corrupt Venezuelan government officials have systematically looted Venezuela of billions of dollars,” said U.S. Attorney Fajardo Orshan. “Far too often, these corrupt officials and their co-conspirators have used South Florida banks and real estate to conceal and perpetuate their illegal activity. As the recent charges show, Venezuelan corruption and money laundering in South Florida extends to even the highest levels of Venezuela’s judicial system. In the last couple of years, the U.S. Attorney’s Office in South Florida and its federal law enforcement partners have united to bring dozens of criminal charges against high-level regime officials and co-conspirators resulting in seizures of approximately $450 million dollars.”

“These indictments expose the devastating systemic corruption at the highest levels of Nicolas Maduro’s regime,” said Acting Administrator Dhillon.

[BDKJMU]

Yes — Christopher Columbus did bring Taíno people back to Spain after his first voyage in 1492–1493.

Here’s what happened:
• When Columbus returned to Spain in early 1493, he brought with him several Taíno captives from the islands he had encountered (mainly from Hispaniola and surrounding areas).
• His goal was to show King Ferdinand and Queen Isabella “proof” of his discoveries

Ah yes…the charming glory of colonialism. Did Columbus rape the girls ge brought back and cut off a few hands before showing his catch?

Newsflash: They were raping, enslaving and murdering each other long before Columbus ever arrived.

[BDKJMU]

Trump could show us a boat with a gazillion kilos and it still wouldn’t make a difference, the opposition is just not gonna support Trump blowing up boats or support him with anything he does

You just can't sustain this. We have an entire air craft attack group committed to blowing up speed boats in and around a fairly unimportant country in the Caribbean, apparently so loaded with drugs that we can't show a single bit of evidence of, and you're saying "oh, whatever". There's always political opposition to everything, that's the nature of politics. But that doesn't mean you just say "f*** it" and just do whatever you want to do and provide zero evidence to back it up because the other side of the aisle will be critical of it. That's just sh***y leadership for something that should be a slam dunk. Defend what you're doing with even a sliver of evidence, since to date there's been zero evidence. At least then you've done your due diligence regardless of what political opponents may say.

Huh? Venezuela has the largest proven oil reserves in the world. The fact that they squander this through state control of the economy with centralized planning, nationalized industries, price controls, massive govt corruption, etc is another matter.

[UNI88]

You just can't sustain this. We have an entire air craft attack group committed to blowing up speed boats in and around a fairly unimportant country in the Caribbean, apparently so loaded with drugs that we can't show a single bit of evidence of, and you're saying "oh, whatever". There's always political opposition to everything, that's the nature of politics. But that doesn't mean you just say "f*** it" and just do whatever you want to do and provide zero evidence to back it up because the other side of the aisle will be critical of it. That's just sh***y leadership for something that should be a slam dunk. Defend what you're doing with even a sliver of evidence, since to date there's been zero evidence. At least then you've done your due diligence regardless of what political opponents may say.

Huh? Venezuela has the largest proven oil reserves in the world. The fact that they squander this through state control of the economy with centralized planning, nationalized industries, price controls, massive govt corruption, etc is another matter.

Sounds like they went MAQA before the US did.

[kalm]

Ah yes…the charming glory of colonialism. Did Columbus rape the girls ge brought back and cut off a few hands before showing his catch?

Newsflash: They were raping, enslaving and murdering each other long before Columbus ever arrived.

Well then, I guess both sides were savages, huh?

Have a link?

[Caribbean Hen]

Newsflash: They were raping, enslaving and murdering each other long before Columbus ever arrived.

Well then, I guess both sides were savages, huh?

Have a link?

https://wallbuilders.com/resource/no-no ... same%20age.

When the Caribbees take any boys as prisoners of war, they remove their organs, fatten the boys until they grow to manhood and then, when they wish to make a great feast, they kill and eat them, for they say the flesh of boys and women is not good to eat. Three boys thus mutilated came fleeing to us when we visited the houses.11

[BDKJMU]

Well then, I guess both sides were savages, huh?

Have a link?

https://wallbuilders.com/resource/no-no ... same%20age.

When the Caribbees take any boys as prisoners of war, they remove their organs, fatten the boys until they grow to manhood and then, when they wish to make a great feast, they kill and eat them, for they say the flesh of boys and women is not good to eat. Three boys thus mutilated came fleeing to us when we visited the houses.11

Exactly. Almost every civilization throughout history if you go back far enough has had extreme violence and slavery, including ancient Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, Rome, and empires across Africa, Asia, and the Americas. Kalm just thinks it been limited to those evil white European colonialists.

[UNI88]

UK suspends some intelligence sharing with US over boat strike concerns in major break

The United Kingdom is no longer sharing intelligence with the US about suspected drug trafficking vessels in the Caribbean because it does not want to be complicit in US military strikes and believes the attacks are illegal, sources familiar with the matter told CNN.

The UK’s decision marks a significant break from its closest ally and intelligence sharing partner and underscores the growing skepticism over the legality of the US military’s campaign around Latin America.

For years, the UK, which controls a number of territories in the Caribbean where it bases intelligence assets, has helped the US locate vessels suspected of carrying drugs so that the US Coast Guard could interdict them, the sources said. That meant the ships would be stopped, boarded, its crew detained, and drugs seized.

So much for being better respected internationally under trump.