The Ukraine Crisis

[kalm]

Hadn't heard of The Grayzone before. Sounds like a Liberal Treehouse.




https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grayzone

Holy shit, they sound like MSNBC & CNN had a baby.

That’s a fair comparison.

[SeattleGriz]

The other side to what is happening. At this point, Ukraine doesn't have the trained soldiers to run any new equipment.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... n-ukraine/

The hard truth is the introduction of new weapon systems won’t change the strategic outcome in Ukraine. Even if NATO’s European members, together with Washington, D.C., provided Ukrainian troops with a new avalanche of weapons, and it arrived at the front instead of disappearing into the black hole of Ukrainian corruption, the training and tactical leadership required to conduct complex offensive operations does not exist inside Ukraine’s 700,000-man army. In addition, there is an acute failure to recognize that Moscow would react to such a development by escalating the conflict. Unlike Ukraine, Russia is not currently mobilized for a larger war, but it could do so quickly.

American military and civilian leaders routinely ignore the historical record and its lessons. Most importantly, they ignored the criticality of human capital in uniform that frequently constitutes the margin of victory in war.

[GannonFan]

The other side to what is happening. At this point, Ukraine doesn't have the trained soldiers to run any new equipment.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... n-ukraine/

The hard truth is the introduction of new weapon systems won’t change the strategic outcome in Ukraine. Even if NATO’s European members, together with Washington, D.C., provided Ukrainian troops with a new avalanche of weapons, and it arrived at the front instead of disappearing into the black hole of Ukrainian corruption, the training and tactical leadership required to conduct complex offensive operations does not exist inside Ukraine’s 700,000-man army. In addition, there is an acute failure to recognize that Moscow would react to such a development by escalating the conflict. Unlike Ukraine, Russia is not currently mobilized for a larger war, but it could do so quickly.

American military and civilian leaders routinely ignore the historical record and its lessons. Most importantly, they ignored the criticality of human capital in uniform that frequently constitutes the margin of victory in war.

So what's your answer to Russian aggression and desire to take over Ukrainian territory? Russia took Crimea 8 years ago when there was no dispute that it belonged to Ukraine. Now they've taken over the Donbas region, east and south, when again there was no dispute about Ukrainian sovereignty. What if Russia takes more land at a future time, again, because they want to? What is your position on that? You seem to skip over most of these questions while you cheerlead for Russia to succeed on the battlefield.

[SeattleGriz]

The other side to what is happening. At this point, Ukraine doesn't have the trained soldiers to run any new equipment.

https://www.theamericanconservative.com ... n-ukraine/

So what's your answer to Russian aggression and desire to take over Ukrainian territory? Russia took Crimea 8 years ago when there was no dispute that it belonged to Ukraine. Now they've taken over the Donbas region, east and south, when again there was no dispute about Ukrainian sovereignty. What if Russia takes more land at a future time, again, because they want to? What is your position on that? You seem to skip over most of these questions while you cheerlead for Russia to succeed on the battlefield.

If you call reality of what is happening on the field of war, cheerleading, that is your prerogative. I choose to point it out because it's the truth and because I was for not pushing Russia's buttons.

In regards to unchecked aggression, if you're not criticizing the US, you've got no leg to stand on. We meddle, we lie and we drone the shit out of any small player country we feel like. You see how we just threatened Africa? "You guys buy any sanctioned crap from Russia, well sanction you!".

I've said it before. I love America and I would love to see our ideals flourish everywhere, but we're breaking a shit ton of eggs making this omelette. There has to be a better way.

This article rings true today as it did 8 years ago.

https://theintercept.com/2014/03/04/rt- ... crimea-rt/

American invasions and occupations of nations halfway around the world are perfectly noble, but Russian interference in a part of a country right on its border is the supreme act of lawless, imperial aggression. Few things are worse than watching America’s militarists, invasion-and-occupying-justifiers, regime-change enthusiasts, drone-lovers, and supporters of its various “kinetic military actions” self-righteously wrap themselves in the banner of non-intervention, international law and respect for sovereignty. Does anyone take those denunciations seriously outside of the class of western elites who disseminate them?

[GannonFan]

So what's your answer to Russian aggression and desire to take over Ukrainian territory? Russia took Crimea 8 years ago when there was no dispute that it belonged to Ukraine. Now they've taken over the Donbas region, east and south, when again there was no dispute about Ukrainian sovereignty. What if Russia takes more land at a future time, again, because they want to? What is your position on that? You seem to skip over most of these questions while you cheerlead for Russia to succeed on the battlefield.

If you call reality of what is happening on the field of war, cheerleading, that is your prerogative. I choose to point it out because it's the truth and because I was for not pushing Russia's buttons.

In regards to unchecked aggression, if you're not criticizing the US, you've got no leg to stand on. We meddle, we lie and we drone the shit out of any small player country we feel like. You see how we just threatened Africa? "You guys buy any sanctioned crap from Russia, well sanction you!".

I've said it before. I love America and I would love to see our ideals flourish everywhere, but we're breaking a shit ton of eggs making this omelette. There has to be a better way.

This article rings true today as it did 8 years ago.

https://theintercept.com/2014/03/04/rt- ... crimea-rt/

American invasions and occupations of nations halfway around the world are perfectly noble, but Russian interference in a part of a country right on its border is the supreme act of lawless, imperial aggression. Few things are worse than watching America’s militarists, invasion-and-occupying-justifiers, regime-change enthusiasts, drone-lovers, and supporters of its various “kinetic military actions” self-righteously wrap themselves in the banner of non-intervention, international law and respect for sovereignty. Does anyone take those denunciations seriously outside of the class of western elites who disseminate them?

Show me the country where we hold territory today as American territory that we've attacked since WWII (heck, even WWI) and overthrown their government and country borders. We aren't in Victorian times anymore nor are we in the era of the Great Game (which strangely, involved Russia again) where great powers decide whether smaller, weaker countries can exist. You are trying to make equal Russia, in today's times, deciding that nearby countries can't exist on their own and have to cede territory to Russia and be vassals of Russia just because Russia wants, with what happened around the world more than a century ago. More than a century.

And again, we (the US, or even NATO) didn't poke anyone. Sovereign countries, on their own, approached NATO for membership. And they did this because they had a fear that Russia would want to revert to Soviet status and again dominate those countries and basically eliminate them as independent countries (not sure where we have ever done that). And strangely, those countries were proved correct as that's exactly what's happening in Ukraine today. Russia chose to do this, they weren't forced or pushed or cajoled by anyone else.

[UNI88]

[houndawg]

So what's your answer to Russian aggression and desire to take over Ukrainian territory? Russia took Crimea 8 years ago when there was no dispute that it belonged to Ukraine. Now they've taken over the Donbas region, east and south, when again there was no dispute about Ukrainian sovereignty. What if Russia takes more land at a future time, again, because they want to? What is your position on that? You seem to skip over most of these questions while you cheerlead for Russia to succeed on the battlefield.

If you call reality of what is happening on the field of war, cheerleading, that is your prerogative. I choose to point it out because it's the truth and because I was for not pushing Russia's buttons.

In regards to unchecked aggression, if you're not criticizing the US, you've got no leg to stand on. We meddle, we lie and we drone the shit out of any small player country we feel like. You see how we just threatened Africa? "You guys buy any sanctioned crap from Russia, well sanction you!".

I've said it before. I love America and I would love to see our ideals flourish everywhere, but we're breaking a shit ton of eggs making this omelette. There has to be a better way.

This article rings true today as it did 8 years ago.

https://theintercept.com/2014/03/04/rt- ... crimea-rt/

American invasions and occupations of nations halfway around the world are perfectly noble, but Russian interference in a part of a country right on its border is the supreme act of lawless, imperial aggression. Few things are worse than watching America’s militarists, invasion-and-occupying-justifiers, regime-change enthusiasts, drone-lovers, and supporters of its various “kinetic military actions” self-righteously wrap themselves in the banner of non-intervention, international law and respect for sovereignty. Does anyone take those denunciations seriously outside of the class of western elites who disseminate them?

Da Comrade! You tell zem!

[houndawg]

If you call reality of what is happening on the field of war, cheerleading, that is your prerogative. I choose to point it out because it's the truth and because I was for not pushing Russia's buttons.

In regards to unchecked aggression, if you're not criticizing the US, you've got no leg to stand on. We meddle, we lie and we drone the shit out of any small player country we feel like. You see how we just threatened Africa? "You guys buy any sanctioned crap from Russia, well sanction you!".

I've said it before. I love America and I would love to see our ideals flourish everywhere, but we're breaking a shit ton of eggs making this omelette. There has to be a better way.

This article rings true today as it did 8 years ago.

https://theintercept.com/2014/03/04/rt- ... crimea-rt/

Show me the country where we hold territory today as American territory that we've attacked since WWII (heck, even WWI) and overthrown their government and country borders. We aren't in Victorian times anymore nor are we in the era of the Great Game (which strangely, involved Russia again) where great powers decide whether smaller, weaker countries can exist. You are trying to make equal Russia, in today's times, deciding that nearby countries can't exist on their own and have to cede territory to Russia and be vassals of Russia just because Russia wants, with what happened around the world more than a century ago. More than a century.

And again, we (the US, or even NATO) didn't poke anyone. Sovereign countries, on their own, approached NATO for membership. And they did this because they had a fear that Russia would want to revert to Soviet status and again dominate those countries and basically eliminate them as independent countries (not sure where we have ever done that). And strangely, those countries were proved correct as that's exactly what's happening in Ukraine today. Russia chose to do this, they weren't forced or pushed or cajoled by anyone else.

Panama.

Cuba, except for the attempt to overthrow the government failing.

Grenada is worth a mention if for no other reason than thats where the original bass player for Osibisa is from.

Shit, we've overthrown all kinds of governments in Latin America and been willing to support any psychopath thats willing to say he's anti-communist.
You should read the memoirs of General Smedly Butler, USMC.

[UNI88]

Show me the country where we hold territory today as American territory that we've attacked since WWII (heck, even WWI) and overthrown their government and country borders. We aren't in Victorian times anymore nor are we in the era of the Great Game (which strangely, involved Russia again) where great powers decide whether smaller, weaker countries can exist. You are trying to make equal Russia, in today's times, deciding that nearby countries can't exist on their own and have to cede territory to Russia and be vassals of Russia just because Russia wants, with what happened around the world more than a century ago. More than a century.

And again, we (the US, or even NATO) didn't poke anyone. Sovereign countries, on their own, approached NATO for membership. And they did this because they had a fear that Russia would want to revert to Soviet status and again dominate those countries and basically eliminate them as independent countries (not sure where we have ever done that). And strangely, those countries were proved correct as that's exactly what's happening in Ukraine today. Russia chose to do this, they weren't forced or pushed or cajoled by anyone else.

Panama.

Cuba, except for the attempt to overthrow the government failing.

Grenada is worth a mention if for no other reason than thats where the original bass player for Osibisa is from.

Shit, we've overthrown all kinds of governments in Latin America and been willing to support any psychopath thats willing to say he's anti-communist.
You should read the memoirs of General Smedly Butler, USMC.

Does the US hold territory today in Panama or Grenada?

Did the US attack Cuba or was it Cuban exiles?

[houndawg]

Panama.

Cuba, except for the attempt to overthrow the government failing.

Grenada is worth a mention if for no other reason than thats where the original bass player for Osibisa is from.

Shit, we've overthrown all kinds of governments in Latin America and been willing to support any psychopath thats willing to say he's anti-communist.
You should read the memoirs of General Smedly Butler, USMC.

Does the US hold territory todayin Panama or Grenada?

Did the US attack Cuba or was it Cuban exiles?

Way to move the goalposts.

Yeah you got me there, BD, I forgot that we had nothing to do with it

[GannonFan]

Does the US hold territory todayin Panama or Grenada?

Did the US attack Cuba or was it Cuban exiles?

Way to move the goalposts.

Yeah you got me there, BD, I forgot that we had nothing to do with it

You're the one who moved the goalposts. We're talking about what Russia is doing today (grabbing land from a neighbor at the point of a bayonet and keeping it) and weakening that neighbor to be a puppet state. You have to go back to what we did in the Mexican-American War to find something of similar naked aggression as that by the US (maybe the Spanish American War, but that's not a like for like either), and of course that happened 180 years ago. Russia is operating, like I said, like the last century didn't happen or that time stood still before WW1.

[UNI88]

Way to move the goalposts.

Yeah you got me there, BD, I forgot that we had nothing to do with it

You're the one who moved the goalposts. We're talking about what Russia is doing today (grabbing land from a neighbor at the point of a bayonet and keeping it) and weakening that neighbor to be a puppet state. You have to go back to what we did in the Mexican-American War to find something of similar naked aggression as that by the US (maybe the Spanish American War, but that's not a like for like either), and of course that happened 180 years ago. Russia is operating, like I said, like the last century didn't happen or that time stood still before WW1.

I find it funny that Houndy wants to compare Russian aggression in Ukraine to US aggression in Panama or Grenada but differentiate between January 6 and Democratic attempts to impact and overturn the 2016 election.

[houndawg]

You're the one who moved the goalposts. We're talking about what Russia is doing today (grabbing land from a neighbor at the point of a bayonet and keeping it) and weakening that neighbor to be a puppet state. You have to go back to what we did in the Mexican-American War to find something of similar naked aggression as that by the US (maybe the Spanish American War, but that's not a like for like either), and of course that happened 180 years ago. Russia is operating, like I said, like the last century didn't happen or that time stood still before WW1.

I find it funny that Houndy wants to compare Russian aggression in Ukraine to US aggression in Panama or Grenada but differentiate between January 6 and Democratic attempts to impact and overturn the 2016 election.

Oh please.

I didn't compare the two at all I answered GFs question. Step away from the bong, kid.

[Skjellyfetti]

[kalm]

Good article on the surrounding of RUS troops in Kherson and operational tactics. The next couple of months may be interesting.

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/08/22/g ... n-kherson/

[houndawg]

Good article on the surrounding of RUS troops in Kherson and operational tactics. The next couple of months may be interesting.

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2022/08/22/g ... n-kherson/

Stalin was furious with FDR for dribbling out just enough supplies to Russia to keep them fighting the Germans but not enough to allow them to go on offense. We should spend whatever we need to spend to keep the Ukrainians killing Russians

[Skjellyfetti]

The kind of BS SD and Seattle lap up.

[SDHornet]

You haven't had a post about Russia "gobbling" territory in awhile. HIMARS got you down? Getting off to gore videos of Wagner mercs castrating Ukrainian POWs?

Indeed. HIMARS have changed the game a bit as predicted.

HIMARS aren't a game changer, Ukraine had comparable MLRS systems before war started.

And I haven't posted anything because this thing has settled into the forever war the MIC wanted once Afghanistan was shut down. Of course, Ukraine is winning so hard that equipment set to go to active units are being diverted to Ukraine...but yeah I'm sure that offensive to take back Crimea is going to kick off any day now.

[SeattleGriz]

Indeed. HIMARS have changed the game a bit as predicted.

HIMARS aren't a game changer, Ukraine had comparable MLRS systems before war started.

And I haven't posted anything because this thing has settled into the forever war the MIC wanted once Afghanistan was shut down. Of course, Ukraine is winning so hard that equipment set to go to active units are being diverted to Ukraine...but yeah I'm sure that offensive to take back Crimea is going to kick off any day now.

Putin lover!

[SDHornet]

HIMARS aren't a game changer, Ukraine had comparable MLRS systems before war started.

And I haven't posted anything because this thing has settled into the forever war the MIC wanted once Afghanistan was shut down. Of course, Ukraine is winning so hard that equipment set to go to active units are being diverted to Ukraine...but yeah I'm sure that offensive to take back Crimea is going to kick off any day now.

Putin lover!

I think they affixed that label when I didn't blindly go along with the Russian Collusion hoax.

[SDHornet]

Oh.

[houndawg]

The kind of BS SD and Seattle lap up.

I'm surprised that you beat him to the post!

[houndawg]

Oh.

Astute, for a Republican

[kalm]

Indeed. HIMARS have changed the game a bit as predicted.

HIMARS aren't a game changer, Ukraine had comparable MLRS systems before war started.

And I haven't posted anything because this thing has settled into the forever war the MIC wanted once Afghanistan was shut down. Of course, Ukraine is winning so hard that equipment set to go to active units are being diverted to Ukraine...but yeah I'm sure that offensive to take back Crimea is going to kick off any day now.

You’re comparing 1960’s tech with at best 80’s fire control systems to modern GPS guided systems?

The DOD is officially going to make this a named operation. We will be supporting it for the long haul as are most sensible nations (that didn’t make a deal with the devil …looking at you Germany).

Crimea is going to be contested. Putin knows this and is amping up troop “recruitment”.

We are still the good guys…mostly. ‘Murica!

[houndawg]

HIMARS aren't a game changer, Ukraine had comparable MLRS systems before war started.

And I haven't posted anything because this thing has settled into the forever war the MIC wanted once Afghanistan was shut down. Of course, Ukraine is winning so hard that equipment set to go to active units are being diverted to Ukraine...but yeah I'm sure that offensive to take back Crimea is going to kick off any day now.

You’re comparing 1960’s tech with at best 80’s fire control systems to modern GPS guided systems?

The DOD is officially going to make this a named operation. We will be supporting it for the long haul as are most sensible nations (that didn’t make a deal with the devil …looking at you Germany).

Crimea is going to be contested. Putin knows this and is amping up troop “recruitment”.

We are still the good guys…mostly. ‘Murica!

He doesn't get that just because it looks like our stuff doesn't mean it performs like our stuff. (But I'm OK with his low-information opinions when the trade off is getting to listen to him rage against the Military Industrial Complex.)