The Ukraine Crisis

[houndawg]

At some point, Russia may have serious trouble even funding the war not to mention the deepening domestic economic issues.

The United States is pushing Russia to the brink of a potential sovereign debt default by preventing the country from paying holders of that debt funds due on Monday.


The U.S. stopped Russia paying its bondholders more than $600 million on Monday from reserves the country holds in U.S.-based banks, potentially forcing the Kremlin to use its other dollar reserves to pay down the debt.

If Russia does not make debt repayments using the dollars its government has access to, the country risks a sovereign debt default.

https://www.newsweek.com/u-s-pushes-rus ... 7phTdJO7c0

Putin's had some payback coming from us for a long time. We need to make it hurt as bad as we can short of nuking him

[houndawg]

Its like I tell klam…

I’m not doing the work for you (and it isn’t even work).

The NYT has a very good takedown of Russian propaganda claiming that Ukrainians killed all those civilians.

If you are too stupid to go to the NYT and actually look at the imagery then I don’t know what else to do - other than to point out that you asking me to
give you links is like asking me to show you a photo of the sky to prove it is blue


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The NYT report relies on satellite imagery, though

Satellites are part of the "round earth" MSM narrative

Technically, round and flat are not mutually exclusive...

[houndawg]

Seems like you are picking and choosing when to trust the NYT. Are you in the Hunter thread all on board with with their "mea culpa?"

You think the Ukrainians are putting bodies in barrels, executing women and children all to prove that the Russians that invaded them are really the bad guys? The world is already against the Russians - there's no logical need to take it that far.

Only criticizing the NYT if they can't corroborate their story.

Where I'm having trouble is the Mayor of Bucha is in video on March 31st declaring the Russians had left and no mention of atrocities. Also official Ukrainian police report from April 2nd mentioned nothing of atrocities or dead bodies.

Why don't you tell us what you think explains what we've seen and then we'll compare your scenario to the one seen by the rest of the world and see which one makes more sense? Yes?

[SeattleGriz]

Only criticizing the NYT if they can't corroborate their story.

Where I'm having trouble is the Mayor of Bucha is in video on March 31st declaring the Russians had left and no mention of atrocities. Also official Ukrainian police report from April 2nd mentioned nothing of atrocities or dead bodies.

Why don't you tell us what you think explains what we've seen and then we'll compare your scenario to the one seen by the rest of the world and see which one makes more sense? Yes?

Do we have video proof of the Russians commiting these crimes? Cid says there should be video everywhere exposing this for the crime it is.

Until I see video proof, I have no clue. Maybe all those Ukrainian weapons that got handed out were used. Been more than a few living over there saying old scores were settled. Could be fighting the Russians or just the Russians being dicks.

[Ibanez]

Why don't you tell us what you think explains what we've seen and then we'll compare your scenario to the one seen by the rest of the world and see which one makes more sense? Yes?

Do we have video proof of the Russians commiting these crimes? Cid says there should be video everywhere exposing this for the crime it is.

Until I see video proof, I have no clue. Maybe all those Ukrainian weapons that got handed out were used. Been more than a few living over there saying old scores were settled. Could be fighting the Russians or just the Russians being dicks.

I don't need to see video proof of Hitler ordering the Holocaust, Japanese and American soldiers butchering POWs, Continental soldiers rotting away on prison ships or in salt houses to know those are factual occurrences.

[houndawg]

Why don't you tell us what you think explains what we've seen and then we'll compare your scenario to the one seen by the rest of the world and see which one makes more sense? Yes?

Do we have video proof of the Russians commiting these crimes? Cid says there should be video everywhere exposing this for the crime it is.

Until I see video proof, I have no clue. Maybe all those Ukrainian weapons that got handed out were used. Been more than a few living over there saying old scores were settled. Could be fighting the Russians or just the Russians being dicks.

Nice dodge.

I know you have no clue - I asked what you think happened - so we can compare that with the current narrative and discuss which one makes more sense.

[SeattleGriz]

Do we have video proof of the Russians commiting these crimes? Cid says there should be video everywhere exposing this for the crime it is.

Until I see video proof, I have no clue. Maybe all those Ukrainian weapons that got handed out were used. Been more than a few living over there saying old scores were settled. Could be fighting the Russians or just the Russians being dicks.

I don't need to see video proof of Hitler ordering the Holocaust, Japanese and American soldiers butchering POWs, Continental soldiers rotting away on prison ships or in salt houses to know those are factual occurrences.

I'm not saying they didn't occur, I just don't know by who.

[SeattleGriz]

Do we have video proof of the Russians commiting these crimes? Cid says there should be video everywhere exposing this for the crime it is.

Until I see video proof, I have no clue. Maybe all those Ukrainian weapons that got handed out were used. Been more than a few living over there saying old scores were settled. Could be fighting the Russians or just the Russians being dicks.

Nice dodge.

I know you have no clue - I asked what you think happened - so we can compare that with the current narrative and discuss which one makes more sense.

I don't know, but I can't square why Russia, who is getting pummeled by the world media, would gift the narrative with such stupidity.

I think it could easily be settling of scores. Now saying that, I don't know how many bodies total.

[Skjellyfetti]

A pro-Russian soldier, holding a Second World War era Mosin rifle - prepares to join the People's Militia of the Lugansk People's Republic

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... urces.html

[houndawg]

Nice dodge.

I know you have no clue - I asked what you think happened - so we can compare that with the current narrative and discuss which one makes more sense.

I don't know, but I can't square why Russia, who is getting pummeled by the world media, would gift the narrative with such stupidity.

I think it could easily be settling of scores. Now saying that, I don't know how many bodies total.

Please. Putin doesn't give a fuck what the world media thinks. You know that.

Sure a score or two might have been settled but again, thats 99% the work of the Russian Army that we're seeing and the whole fucking world knows it, and you know it too. Thats why you aren't about to favor us with some Qanon-worthy drivel about false flags and crisis actors. Your crowd needs to grow the fuck up because there is a whole lot more important shit going on than trying to make Joe Biden look bad. He doesn't need anybody's help with that.

[SeattleGriz]

I don't know, but I can't square why Russia, who is getting pummeled by the world media, would gift the narrative with such stupidity.

I think it could easily be settling of scores. Now saying that, I don't know how many bodies total.

Please. Putin doesn't give a fuck what the world media thinks. You know that.

Sure a score or two might have been settled but again, thats 99% the work of the Russian Army that we're seeing and the whole fucking world knows it, and you know it too. Thats why you aren't about to favor us with some Qanon-worthy drivel about false flags and crisis actors. Your crowd needs to grow the fuck up because there is a whole lot more important shit going on than trying to make Joe Biden look bad. He doesn't need anybody's help with that.

I have no clue what you're blathering on about in regard to Qanon, Biden or my crowd.

Cid says there should be plenty of video proof. Everyone has a phone. Where is the video proof?

[SDHornet]

Needs to be corroborated by an independent source. Not putting atrocities happening to and being committed by either the Ukrainians or Russians as out of the realm of possibility.

This will be used by the uniparty to push for NATO/US boots on the ground like the gas attacks in Syria and the "babies in incubators" in the first Gulf War.

SD Hornet

Straight up war crimes and apparently you and SG are the only people on the planet that haven't seen the pics, but you're probably swallowing the "staged with actors" line from Putin too. There isn't any he said/she said here, SD, this is Derek Chauvin executing a handcuffed George Floyd in broad daylight in the middle of the street in front of a dozen eyewitnesses. Of course you're from the crowd that figured George Floyd got what he deserved so your out-of-stepness-with-the-rest-of-the-world is understandable even if rather revolting.

I've only seen the satellite pics, all others have everything blurred. An independent investigation should easily shed proof of who was responsible for this.

[SDHornet]

Let's see your open source Intel.

And please, don't "speculate" on my motives.

Links to OSINT was provided a week or so ago. I like Bellingcat, personally.

[SDHornet]

Please. Putin doesn't give a fuck what the world media thinks. You know that.

Sure a score or two might have been settled but again, thats 99% the work of the Russian Army that we're seeing and the whole fucking world knows it, and you know it too. Thats why you aren't about to favor us with some Qanon-worthy drivel about false flags and crisis actors. Your crowd needs to grow the fuck up because there is a whole lot more important shit going on than trying to make Joe Biden look bad. He doesn't need anybody's help with that.

I have no clue what you're blathering on about in regard to Qanon, Biden or my crowd.

Cid says there should be plenty of video proof. Everyone has a phone. Where is the video proof?

Regardless of who did it, using these murdered civilians as moral outrage (Yemen anyone? ) is just a desperate measure to foment the warmongering so people can support US boots on the ground/jets in the air and give the elite class the cover needed to make that order. The MIC lost out on its forever war in Afghanistan and they are looking to keep their profits up with another war (I get that right houndie?).

[SDHornet]

Thread has some good clips in it:

[SDHornet]

Oh...

WASHINGTON, April 4 (Reuters) - The U.S. military is not in a position to independently confirm Ukrainian accounts of atrocities by Russian forces against civilians in the town of Bucha, but has no reason to dispute the accounts either, a senior U.S. defense official said on Monday.

"We're seeing the same imagery that you are. We have no reason whatsoever to refute the Ukrainian claims about these atrocities -- clearly, deeply, deeply troubling," the official said, speaking on condition of anonymity.

"The Pentagon can't independently and single handedly confirm that, but we're also not in any position to refute those claims."

https://www.reuters.com/world/pentagon- ... ce=twitter

[Skjellyfetti]

Someone is definitely reading what they want to from that article.



Also, unnamed sources quoted in the MSM? Thought that was fake news.

[houndawg]

I have no clue what you're blathering on about in regard to Qanon, Biden or my crowd.

Cid says there should be plenty of video proof. Everyone has a phone. Where is the video proof?

Regardless of who did it, using these murdered civilians as moral outrage (Yemen anyone? ) is just a desperate measure to foment the warmongering so people can support US boots on the ground/jets in the air and give the elite class the cover needed to make that order. The MIC lost out on its forever war in Afghanistan and they are looking to keep their profits up with another war (I get that right houndie?).

Bless your heart. You try so hard.

[Col Hogan]

Interesting read on why “give them weapons” is not that simple. Thoughts from any of the board’s military experts?

During this war, there's been calls for the US to give UKR more _____________ (fill in the blank with M1 Abrams tanks, Patriot Missile Systems, F16s, A10s, etc).

Those calls often come from politicians, reporters, or those with little knowledge of weapons.
A to discuss. 1/23
I'm all for giving UKR the systems they need (and want), if those help the war effort.

But there are many factors that go into the decision to provide arms beyond "this would be a game changer!"

When giving or selling arms to other nations, there are considerations: 2/……..

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1510 ... 61472.html

I haven’t been up on the site much lately, and once I saw this, I had to read the rest of the posts to see if anybody tried to answer…

I worked weapons system conversion for a long time in the Air Force, so that’s the basis of my answer…but I can give you some non-Air Force answers too…

The list of major weapons systems that you have listed above would take time to train on…and I mean a lot of time if you want to be proficient going into combat.

On the M-1 Abrams tank, the driver would most likely be the easiest to train…a week or two learning switchology (assuming he had experience driving a Russian made tank). But the rest of the crew could take months to get them combat proficient (unless you just want to throw them into combat as cannon fodder).

I converted F-16 units to A-10s, and I can tell you it takes months to train the maintenance folks to keep the warthog flying right…and while the pilots may be able to take off and land after a week or two of training, employing the weapons system properly takes time…

The Patriot missile system is a system…many moving parts that it take lots of time to train operators, maintainers, etc on…

Take a Ukrainian solder who has operated an AK-47 for a couple of years, and give him an M-4 carbine…he knows how to pull the trigger, and it will not take him long to learn the Manuel of arms on the weapon…but under the stress of a firefight, will he react to a jam, or a FTF properly? In the military, its called muscle memory…you want troops, pilots, etc, so well trained that they don’t have to think about what is next…they just react to their training…

[SDHornet]

Someone is definitely reading what they want to from that article.



Also, unnamed sources quoted in the MSM? Thought that was fake news.

You're the one to talk about unnamed sources. You have a 4+ year thread pushing bullshit from unnamed sources.

[SDHornet]

Interesting thread on where things stand now. Can UK get its forces to the east to thwart RU push. Haven't seen much on RU moving on Odessa, which is the last port UK holds.

[AZGrizFan]

I don't know, but I can't square why Russia, who is getting pummeled by the world media, would gift the narrative with such stupidity.

I think it could easily be settling of scores. Now saying that, I don't know how many bodies total.

Please. Putin doesn't give a fuck what the world media thinks. You know that.

Sure a score or two might have been settled but again, thats 99% the work of the Russian Army that we're seeing and the whole fucking world knows it, and you know it too. Thats why you aren't about to favor us with some Qanon-worthy drivel about false flags and crisis actors. Your crowd needs to grow the fuck up because there is a whole lot more important shit going on than trying to make Joe Biden look bad. He doesn't need anybody's help with that.

Good to know you CAN do it when your really try.

[houndawg]

Please. Putin doesn't give a fuck what the world media thinks. You know that.

Sure a score or two might have been settled but again, thats 99% the work of the Russian Army that we're seeing and the whole fucking world knows it, and you know it too. Thats why you aren't about to favor us with some Qanon-worthy drivel about false flags and crisis actors. Your crowd needs to grow the fuck up because there is a whole lot more important shit going on than trying to make Joe Biden look bad. He doesn't need anybody's help with that.

Good to know you CAN do it when your really try.

you*

[houndawg]

Interesting thread on where things stand now. Can UK get its forces to the east to thwart RU push. Haven't seen much on RU moving on Odessa, which is the last port UK holds.

Time is on Ukraines side and Putin is long overdue for a bitch slapping. Our job is to make sure it costs Russia the maximum possible in their blood and treasure and that the Chinese decide this is not the time to challenge the US military. That will happen in its time

[kalm]

Interesting read on why “give them weapons” is not that simple. Thoughts from any of the board’s military experts?



https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1510 ... 61472.html

I haven’t been up on the site much lately, and once I saw this, I had to read the rest of the posts to see if anybody tried to answer…

I worked weapons system conversion for a long time in the Air Force, so that’s the basis of my answer…but I can give you some non-Air Force answers too…

The list of major weapons systems that you have listed above would take time to train on…and I mean a lot of time if you want to be proficient going into combat.

On the M-1 Abrams tank, the driver would most likely be the easiest to train…a week or two learning switchology (assuming he had experience driving a Russian made tank). But the rest of the crew could take months to get them combat proficient (unless you just want to throw them into combat as cannon fodder).

I converted F-16 units to A-10s, and I can tell you it takes months to train the maintenance folks to keep the warthog flying right…and while the pilots may be able to take off and land after a week or two of training, employing the weapons system properly takes time…

The Patriot missile system is a system…many moving parts that it take lots of time to train operators, maintainers, etc on…

Take a Ukrainian solder who has operated an AK-47 for a couple of years, and give him an M-4 carbine…he knows how to pull the trigger, and it will not take him long to learn the Manuel of arms on the weapon…but under the stress of a firefight, will he react to a jam, or a FTF properly? In the military, its called muscle memory…you want troops, pilots, etc, so well trained that they don’t have to think about what is next…they just react to their training…

Thanks, Colonel. Appreciated.