2020 General Election

[Ibanez]

BTW I've seen plenty of "whataboutism" with respect to what happened yesterday. There is no comparison. If you've been doing that, just stop. No, this is not like things like the Black Lives Matter protests. This was an assault on our seat of government. Nothing like this has happened in our history. We had an election. The incumbent lost. Then the incumbent and his allies inflamed his supporters with false claims of voter fraud. Then the President called for his followers to descend upon DC today. Then they held a rally at which he engaged in inflammatory rhetoric laced with false claims and his allies encouraged violence.

No. The "left" has never done anything like this. There is no legitimate "whatabout."

Oh noes the sacred capitol stay out of the sacred capitol!

BLM is worse because they destroyed countless private property and businesses (that tend to serve black neighborhoods BTW) that will never recover.

The extremists on both sides are bad and shouldn't be tolerated. You're rationalizing breaking the law. It's not that the Capitol is sacred - it's a federal building where a peaceful protest was told they couldn't trespass. Those protestor became a mob, trespasses, vandalized property, caused the death of 4 people, sent 14 police to the hospital, instilled fear in those that were inside the building and for what...? Absolutely nothing.

BLM, Antifa and now MAGA are all the same - extremists. The violence and destruction in DC, Seattle, Portland, LA, Ferguson is inexcusable and we shouldn't be qualifying it by saying, " Well, BLM is worse b/c they have done more." That's bogus argument. Crime is Crime- regardless of who has committed it more or for longer.

[Ibanez]

That's not how it works. If you are going to assert that an election was stolen, it is up to you to prove that it WAS. And you can't do that because there is zero credible evidence to support the proposition. At this point there SHOULD be more confidence in the 2020 election than any other election in our history because we have never had so much of an effort to show impropriety. A LOT of effort was put into it and it failed. It failed before liberal judges. It failed before conservative judges. It failed before judges Obama appointed. It failed before judges Trump appointed. It failed before Federal judges. It failed before State judges. The Department of Homeland Security said there is no evidence of a problem. The FBI said there is no evidence of a problem.

The whole "voter fraud" thing with respect to this election is absolutely ridiculous. Anybody who continues to argue that there was a problem with voter fraud that made the difference in who won is either an idiot or being willfully ignorant. It's just absurd.

John, you're full of sh!t. I don't think the election was stolen but I do think there was impropriety and that we need to be more stringent with our election security not more confident. Examples (some with proof, some without):

• Changing of the rules for mail-in ballots by the judiciary. I understand why with COVID that made sense but it isn't the judiciary's job to make or change laws, it's the legislature's and the judiciary overstepped their bounds.
• I think that signature checking was lax. I don't know whether this was a concerted effort or just laziness but we need to make sure that signatures match in future elections and have better processes for verifying signatures after the fact. I think it's water under the bridge for 2020 and couldn't be proven one or the other once envelopes were separated from ballots.
• All the hinky stuff that was caught on video should be prosecuted when appropriate and procedures put in place to prevent in the future. The person who told the observers that they were done counting and then started back up after the observers left should at a minimum be barred from working any future elections in any capacity. Counting stations should have more rigorous security similar to an airport to prevent people from bringing in outside flash drives.
• What Trump's lackey did with the USPS shouldn't be allowed.

My guess is that the hinky stuff has been going on for decades but this election really brought it to the fore. Hopefully, the attention will lead to real improvements in security.

There's going to be shady stuff happening in every election, that's a fact of life. How best do we reduce their effects and the ability of others to engage in such actions is something we should look at.

[UNI88]

Oh noes the sacred capitol stay out of the sacred capitol!

BLM is worse because they destroyed countless private property and businesses (that tend to serve black neighborhoods BTW) that will never recover.

The extremists on both sides are bad and shouldn't be tolerated. You're rationalizing breaking the law. It's not that the Capitol is sacred - it's a federal building where a peaceful protest was told they couldn't trespass. Those protestor became a mob, trespasses, vandalized property, caused the death of 4 people, sent 14 police to the hospital, instilled fear in those that were inside the building and for what...? Absolutely nothing.

BLM, Antifa and now MAGA are all the same - extremists. The violence and destruction in DC, Seattle, Portland, LA, Ferguson is inexcusable and we shouldn't be qualifying it by saying, " Well, BLM is worse b/c they have done more." That's bogus argument. Crime is Crime- regardless of who has committed it more or for longer.

[SeattleGriz]

BTW I've seen plenty of "whataboutism" with respect to what happened yesterday. There is no comparison. If you've been doing that, just stop. No, this is not like things like the Black Lives Matter protests. This was an assault on our seat of government. Nothing like this has happened in our history. We had an election. The incumbent lost. Then the incumbent and his allies inflamed his supporters with false claims of voter fraud. Then the President called for his followers to descend upon DC today. Then they held a rally at which he engaged in inflammatory rhetoric laced with false claims and his allies encouraged violence.

No. The "left" has never done anything like this. There is no legitimate "whatabout."

Oh noes the sacred capitol stay out of the sacred capitol!

BLM is worse because they destroyed countless private property and businesses (that tend to serve black neighborhoods BTW) that will never recover.

I'm betting the businesses and neighborhoods will recover when the billionaires step in and buy the depressed properties via opportunity zones. They will not have to pay capital gains.

Mentioned it before. Almost seemed planned.

[kalm]

The extremists on both sides are bad and shouldn't be tolerated. You're rationalizing breaking the law. It's not that the Capitol is sacred - it's a federal building where a peaceful protest was told they couldn't trespass. Those protestor became a mob, trespasses, vandalized property, caused the death of 4 people, sent 14 police to the hospital, instilled fear in those that were inside the building and for what...? Absolutely nothing.

BLM, Antifa and now MAGA are all the same - extremists. The violence and destruction in DC, Seattle, Portland, LA, Ferguson is inexcusable and we shouldn't be qualifying it by saying, " Well, BLM is worse b/c they have done more." That's bogus argument. Crime is Crime- regardless of who has committed it more or for longer.

[Ibanez]

Oh noes the sacred capitol stay out of the sacred capitol!

BLM is worse because they destroyed countless private property and businesses (that tend to serve black neighborhoods BTW) that will never recover.

I'm betting the businesses and neighborhoods will recover when the billionaires step in and buy the depressed properties via opportunity zones. They will not have to pay capital gains.

Mentioned it before. Almost seemed planned.

So BLM/Antifa and MAGA are colluding?

[SDHornet]

BTW I've seen plenty of "whataboutism" with respect to what happened yesterday. There is no comparison. If you've been doing that, just stop. No, this is not like things like the Black Lives Matter protests. This was an assault on our seat of government. Nothing like this has happened in our history. We had an election. The incumbent lost. Then the incumbent and his allies inflamed his supporters with false claims of voter fraud. Then the President called for his followers to descend upon DC today. Then they held a rally at which he engaged in inflammatory rhetoric laced with false claims and his allies encouraged violence.

No. The "left" has never done anything like this. There is no legitimate "whatabout."

blm literally tried to over run the WH this summer. What the fuck are you talking about.

[SDHornet]

Maybe a fake dossier from Russia would help.

Wasn't it from a former Brit intel officer? Either way, no. I don't think that'd be helpful this time. WE'll just stick to his documented words and actions.



Btw - it's a little late to be resigning and calling for his impeachment/invoke the 25th.

Agreed. That would just fan the flames.

Edit: I was poking jellybelly about using a Russia dossier, although no doubt he'd swallow it hook line and sinker again.

[SDHornet]

That's not how it works. If you are going to assert that an election was stolen, it is up to you to prove that it WAS. And you can't do that because there is zero credible evidence to support the proposition. At this point there SHOULD be more confidence in the 2020 election than any other election in our history because we have never had so much of an effort to show impropriety. A LOT of effort was put into it and it failed. It failed before liberal judges. It failed before conservative judges. It failed before judges Obama appointed. It failed before judges Trump appointed. It failed before Federal judges. It failed before State judges. The Department of Homeland Security said there is no evidence of a problem. The FBI said there is no evidence of a problem.

The whole "voter fraud" thing with respect to this election is absolutely ridiculous. Anybody who continues to argue that there was a problem with voter fraud that made the difference in who won is either an idiot or being willfully ignorant. It's just absurd.

John, you're full of sh!t. I don't think the election was stolen but I do think there was impropriety and that we need to be more stringent with our election security not more confident. Examples (some with proof, some without):

• Changing of the rules for mail-in ballots by the judiciary. I understand why with COVID that made sense but it isn't the judiciary's job to make or change laws, it's the legislature's and the judiciary overstepped their bounds.
• I think that signature checking was lax. I don't know whether this was a concerted effort or just laziness but we need to make sure that signatures match in future elections and have better processes for verifying signatures after the fact. I think it's water under the bridge for 2020 and couldn't be proven one or the other once envelopes were separated from ballots.
• All the hinky stuff that was caught on video should be prosecuted when appropriate and procedures put in place to prevent in the future. The person who told the observers that they were done counting and then started back up after the observers left should at a minimum be barred from working any future elections in any capacity. Counting stations should have more rigorous security similar to an airport to prevent people from bringing in outside flash drives.
• What Trump's lackey did with the USPS shouldn't be allowed.

My guess is that the hinky stuff has been going on for decades but this election really brought it to the fore. Hopefully, the attention will lead to real improvements in security.

Well said.

[SDHornet]

Is the officer that shot that unarmed women protesting going to be charged?

Who knows what prompted the officer to fire - aside from that woman breaking into a federal building in an attempt to prevent duly elected Congressmen and women from certifying the election.

I file that shooting/death under the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" folder. If you overrun any government facility, you should expect certain reactionary forces to be employed. Being shot is one of them.

[SDHornet]

[SDHornet]

HeAlinG aNd UnItY

[UNI88]

[SeattleGriz]

[BDKJMU]

Either way, there was nothing wrong.

Yeah there was no kicking poll watchers out an then resuming "counting" without poll watchers. There were signature verification audits held.. Oh wait.

[BDKJMU]

John, you're full of sh!t. I don't think the election was stolen but I do think there was impropriety and that we need to be more stringent with our election security not more confident. Examples (some with proof, some without):

• Changing of the rules for mail-in ballots by the judiciary. I understand why with COVID that made sense but it isn't the judiciary's job to make or change laws, it's the legislature's and the judiciary overstepped their bounds.
• I think that signature checking was lax. I don't know whether this was a concerted effort or just laziness but we need to make sure that signatures match in future elections and have better processes for verifying signatures after the fact. I think it's water under the bridge for 2020 and couldn't be proven one or the other once envelopes were separated from ballots.
• All the hinky stuff that was caught on video should be prosecuted when appropriate and procedures put in place to prevent in the future. The person who told the observers that they were done counting and then started back up after the observers left should at a minimum be barred from working any future elections in any capacity. Counting stations should have more rigorous security similar to an airport to prevent people from bringing in outside flash drives.
• What Trump's lackey did with the USPS shouldn't be allowed.

My guess is that the hinky stuff has been going on for decades but this election really brought it to the fore. Hopefully, the attention will lead to real improvements in security.

There's going to be shady stuff happening in every election, that's a fact of life. How best do we reduce their effects and the ability of others to engage in such actions is something we should look at.

That can't be. You said there was "nothing wrong" with the election..

[BDKJMU]

BTW I've seen plenty of "whataboutism" with respect to what happened yesterday. There is no comparison. If you've been doing that, just stop. No, this is not like things like the Black Lives Matter protests. This was an assault on our seat of government. Nothing like this has happened in our history. We had an election. The incumbent lost. Then the incumbent and his allies inflamed his supporters with false claims of voter fraud. Then the President called for his followers to descend upon DC today. Then they held a rally at which he engaged in inflammatory rhetoric laced with false claims and his allies encouraged violence.

No. The "left" has never done anything like this. There is no legitimate "whatabout."

Oh noes the sacred capitol stay out of the sacred capitol!

BLM is worse because they destroyed countless private property and businesses (that tend to serve black neighborhoods BTW) that will never recover.

Yep. BLM/ANTIFA looting, rioting and burning down buildings in dozens of cities this past late spring-summer, which the media outside Fox called mostly peaceful and mostly didn’t show. Yet we have 1 day of protests in DC, no burning or looting, a few windows broken, and leftist media goes apeshit.

[Ibanez]

There's going to be shady stuff happening in every election, that's a fact of life. How best do we reduce their effects and the ability of others to engage in such actions is something we should look at.

That can't be. You said there was "nothing wrong" with the election..

I should've been more clear. Like I said in this thread, there was no widespread, coordinated effort to steal the election. In the sense that the election was rigged and stolen from Trump - that's completely wrong and with fact.

[CAA Flagship]

[BDKJMU]

Oh noes the sacred capitol stay out of the sacred capitol!

BLM is worse because they destroyed countless private property and businesses (that tend to serve black neighborhoods BTW) that will never recover.

The extremists on both sides are bad and shouldn't be tolerated. You're rationalizing breaking the law. It's not that the Capitol is sacred - it's a federal building where a peaceful protest was told they couldn't trespass. Those protestor became a mob, trespasses, vandalized property, caused the death of 4 people, sent 14 police to the hospital, instilled fear in those that were inside the building and for what...? Absolutely nothing.

BLM, Antifa and now MAGA are all the same - extremists. The violence and destruction in DC, Seattle, Portland, LA, Ferguson is inexcusable and we shouldn't be qualifying it by saying, " Well, BLM is worse b/c they have done more." That's bogus argument. Crime is Crime- regardless of who has committed it more or for longer.

Yeah. Shoplifting, speeding, shooting people, its all the same..

[CAA Flagship]

That can't be. You said there was "nothing wrong" with the election..

I should've been more clear. Like I said in this thread, there was no widespread, coordinated effort to steal the election. In the sense that the election was rigged and stolen from Trump - that's completely wrong and with fact.

You know this how?

[Ibanez]

Oh noes the sacred capitol stay out of the sacred capitol!

BLM is worse because they destroyed countless private property and businesses (that tend to serve black neighborhoods BTW) that will never recover.

Yep. BLM/ANTIFA looting, rioting and burning down buildings in dozens of cities this past late spring-summer, which the media outside Fox called mostly peaceful and mostly didn’t show. Yet we have 1 day of protests in DC, no burning or looting, a few windows broken, and leftist media goes apeshit.

You forgot 4 people killed, 14 cops injured, pipe bombs and an IED found and instilling fear in over 600 people in the actual building. But yeah, let's give this fuckers a pass b/c they only did it once. Let's rationalize violence b/c we agree with the supporters. So much for "Back the Blue."

I especially enjoyed the Patriots with the Confederate Flag, breaking the law and trespassing in the name of upholding election law. That's how I like my irony!

[Ibanez]

The extremists on both sides are bad and shouldn't be tolerated. You're rationalizing breaking the law. It's not that the Capitol is sacred - it's a federal building where a peaceful protest was told they couldn't trespass. Those protestor became a mob, trespasses, vandalized property, caused the death of 4 people, sent 14 police to the hospital, instilled fear in those that were inside the building and for what...? Absolutely nothing.

BLM, Antifa and now MAGA are all the same - extremists. The violence and destruction in DC, Seattle, Portland, LA, Ferguson is inexcusable and we shouldn't be qualifying it by saying, " Well, BLM is worse b/c they have done more." That's bogus argument. Crime is Crime- regardless of who has committed it more or for longer.

Yeah. Shoplifting, speeding, shooting people, its all the same..

Crimes are Crimes. I'd figured a Law and Order Republican like yourself would be against crime, no matter how small.

[Ibanez]

I should've been more clear. Like I said in this thread, there was no widespread, coordinated effort to steal the election. In the sense that the election was rigged and stolen from Trump - that's completely wrong and with fact.

You know this how?

Countless audits, internal investigations, 60+ lawsuits across several states and federal jurisdictions… And a little common sense that a conspiracy that far and wide, with that many civilians to have occurred and there's no trace evidence that could be produced in the past 5 or so weeks with an Elite Strike Force searching, probably doesn't exist. Irregularities, sure. A conspiracy so massive that Republican and Democratic states, legislatures, governors, and judges (not to mention supporters and appointees of the President) just seems to be far fetched.

I didn't realize the GOP became the party of Expandos.

[Ibanez]

Who knows what prompted the officer to fire - aside from that woman breaking into a federal building in an attempt to prevent duly elected Congressmen and women from certifying the election.

I file that shooting/death under the "play stupid games, win stupid prizes" folder. If you overrun any government facility, you should expect certain reactionary forces to be employed. Being shot is one of them.

You play with the Bull..you get the Horns!