Coronavirus COVID-19

[AZGrizFan]

Dems WANT this to hang on til November. The last thing they want it to see the economy mostly recover prior to the election. THAT is the politics of it. And the reality is, if we don’t just put on our big boy pants and restart this fucker, the damage that’ll be done and continues to be done will be so long term NO president will be able to recover it. Businesses are closing up shop left and right. Unemployment #’s are going back up. More and more people are becoming dependent on the government for survival. Sure, Dems love it because it looks bad for Trump—it also give them the chance to force some of their more extreme policy planks down peoples throats (living wage, for example). Some here have been saying for months (some literally since Trump was elected) that the Dems would rather see the country fail than to allow Trump to succeed...well, we’re witnessing it first hand in real time. And it ain’t pretty.

At the end of the day, this is twice as dangerous as the flu. We are going to have to decided whether we want to cower in our basements forever or get on with living, having taken on the “burden” of a slight additional risk in walking out the door each morning. The people who need to be working need to get out and work. Businesses need to be open. Because what we have now? It’s not sustainable. It’s destroying the country, and it’s causing more deaths than the virus.

How is opening back up now going to save the economy?

1). voluntary social distancing for both the healthy and compromised
2). Mandated restrictions in flare ups
3. Lost production even for those who recover or are quarantined.
4). Long term health effects and costs
5). What’s the tolerance level for deaths?




3).

Great attitude....”well, we’ve been closed this long, so fuck it. Let’s just stay closed and let thousands of more businesses fail.” I’m sure they’ll survive somehow.

Masks mandated - with no plan as to when they are no longer “required”
Social distancing mandated - with no plan as to when its no longer required
Diminished operating capacities - again, with no plan/guidelines
“Non Essential Businesses” - no plan as to when they’ll be allowed to reopen

There’s no PLAN. Not locally. Not at the state level. Not at the national level. Are we going to wear masks forever? Are we social distancing forever? Do restaurants have to figure out how to survive on 25% of their usual revenue? All bars just shut down for good now? Are the non-essential businesses just fucked forever?

Oh, BTW: Riots are ok....those are totally acceptable. If i was a church, I’d be open every Sunday and we’d be protesting like a motherfucker.

New cases up 400% in the past month. Deaths went up by 25%. If you can’t see this is purely political at this point there’s no helping you.

[Gil Dobie]

You keep saying this and I don't get it. What isn't open around you that is going to have such a massive impact on the economy? Here's what I see still not operating:
1. Movie Theaters
2. Bars

Neither of these type of establishments are key drivers of our economy. Hell, statistically, they don't even show up. What am I missing?

Well Bobby, there’s 18 million people out of work who were working 90 days ago, so you tell me? Even the business that ARE open are operating at a much diminished capacity. And there’s thousands of businesses that’ll NEVER open up again because of this.

How many are staying on unemployment, because they get paid more than on the job?

[bobbythekidd]

You keep saying this and I don't get it. What isn't open around you that is going to have such a massive impact on the economy? Here's what I see still not operating:
1. Movie Theaters
2. Bars

Neither of these type of establishments are key drivers of our economy. Hell, statistically, they don't even show up. What am I missing?

Well Bobby, there’s 18 million people out of work who were working 90 days ago, so you tell me? Even the business that ARE open are operating at a much diminished capacity. And there’s thousands of businesses that’ll NEVER open up again because of this.

1. It's Bob, dammit!
2. I can do math too. If I make more money staying at home than going to work, that's what I'm doing. How can you blame the smart ones for doing that? At least they went to school and learned something.
3. Of course businesses are operating at a lower capacity. People don't want to be there like they used to. Big Ho and I went to a restaurant about a month ago, during the lunch rush hours, there were 4 tables. Not because of restrictions, but because people have become used to getting togo food. They had plenty of people coming in and getting orders to take home. Servers ain't working for a table an hour.

You must have missed the question... What isn't open?

[kalm]

How is opening back up now going to save the economy?

1). voluntary social distancing for both the healthy and compromised
2). Mandated restrictions in flare ups
3. Lost production even for those who recover or are quarantined.
4). Long term health effects and costs
5). What’s the tolerance level for deaths?




3).

Great attitude....”well, we’ve been closed this long, so fuck it. Let’s just stay closed and let thousands of more businesses fail.” I’m sure they’ll survive somehow.

Masks mandated - with no plan as to when they are no longer “required”
Social distancing mandated - with no plan as to when its no longer required
Diminished operating capacities - again, with no plan/guidelines
“Non Essential Businesses” - no plan as to when they’ll be allowed to reopen

There’s no PLAN. Not locally. Not at the state level. Not at the national level. Are we going to wear masks forever? Are we social distancing forever? Do restaurants have to figure out how to survive on 25% of their usual revenue? All bars just shut down for good now? Are the non-essential businesses just fucked forever?

Oh, BTW: Riots are ok....those are totally acceptable. If i was a church, I’d be open every Sunday and we’d be protesting like a motherfucker.

New cases up 400% in the past month. Deaths went up by 25%. If you can’t see this is purely political at this point there’s no helping you.

Deaths lag cases. Long term health effects also lag. Ask this Red Sox Pitcher who “recovered”. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsspo ... ction/amp/

That’s lost productivity. Multiply that by the number of workers, many of whom work for businesses without nearly the testing and healthcare resources MLB does.

Riots are not ok.

The virus doesn’t care. It’s an enemy that does not give up, negotiate, or care about time. I don’t it even think it wears a watch.

My concern is that we cause more long term economic harm by half assed measures that prolong the rollercoaster ride than if we shut down long enough to get the numbers under control.

Feel free to provide the numbers that indicate your “ah fuck it” philosophy will produce an acceptable number of deaths, hospitalizations, and long term health costs. By allowing the economy to recover faster.

[UNI88]

Great attitude....”well, we’ve been closed this long, so fuck it. Let’s just stay closed and let thousands of more businesses fail.” I’m sure they’ll survive somehow.

Masks mandated - with no plan as to when they are no longer “required”
Social distancing mandated - with no plan as to when its no longer required
Diminished operating capacities - again, with no plan/guidelines
“Non Essential Businesses” - no plan as to when they’ll be allowed to reopen

There’s no PLAN. Not locally. Not at the state level. Not at the national level. Are we going to wear masks forever? Are we social distancing forever? Do restaurants have to figure out how to survive on 25% of their usual revenue? All bars just shut down for good now? Are the non-essential businesses just fucked forever?

Oh, BTW: Riots are ok....those are totally acceptable. If i was a church, I’d be open every Sunday and we’d be protesting like a motherfucker.

New cases up 400% in the past month. Deaths went up by 25%. If you can’t see this is purely political at this point there’s no helping you.

Deaths lag cases. Long term health effects also lag. Ask this Red Sox Pitcher who “recovered”. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsspo ... ction/amp/

That’s lost productivity. Multiply that by the number of workers, many of whom work for businesses without nearly the testing and healthcare resources MLB does.

Riots are not ok.

The virus doesn’t care. It’s an enemy that does not give up, negotiate, or care about time. I don’t it even think it wears a watch.

My concern is that we cause more long term economic harm by half assed measures that prolong the rollercoaster ride than if we shut down long enough to get the numbers under control.

Feel free to provide the numbers that indicate your “ah fuck it” philosophy will produce an acceptable number of deaths, hospitalizations, and long term health costs. By allowing the economy to recover faster.

I don't think we should shut down. Wash your hands, wear masks and maintain a physical distance when appropriate. The vast majority of businesses can stay open and keep employing people.

Restaurants and similar businesses are going to suffer. You can't eat and drink in a restaurant with a mask on and 6 ft distancing creates a capacity and revenue problem so restaurants need takeout business.

We don't know how long this will last so those questions can't be answered. Wearing a mask is not that big of an imposition. People need to stop being Nancys.

[kalm]

Deaths lag cases. Long term health effects also lag. Ask this Red Sox Pitcher who “recovered”. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsspo ... ction/amp/

That’s lost productivity. Multiply that by the number of workers, many of whom work for businesses without nearly the testing and healthcare resources MLB does.

Riots are not ok.

The virus doesn’t care. It’s an enemy that does not give up, negotiate, or care about time. I don’t it even think it wears a watch.

My concern is that we cause more long term economic harm by half assed measures that prolong the rollercoaster ride than if we shut down long enough to get the numbers under control.

Feel free to provide the numbers that indicate your “ah fuck it” philosophy will produce an acceptable number of deaths, hospitalizations, and long term health costs. By allowing the economy to recover faster.

I don't think we should shut down. Wash your hands, wear masks and maintain a physical distance when appropriate. The vast majority of businesses can stay open and keep employing people.

Restaurants and similar businesses are going to suffer. You can't eat and drink in a restaurant with a mask on and 6 ft distancing creates a capacity and revenue problem so restaurants need takeout business.

We don't know how long this will last so those questions can't be answered. Wearing a mask is not that big of an imposition. People need to stop being Nancys.

Yeah we should define shut down better...that includes me. I just get a vibe from Z and others that it’s time to move on and go back to normal....let it play out and boom! The economy is back.

Fauci pretty much echoed your thoughts but added reckoning bars during flare ups. Churches, social gatherings, sporting events at all levels should at least be severely restricted.

I think what we’re seeing now is probably what we’re going to see for a long time.

This year’s World Series Champ will be the team with the least cancelled games or the last team to avoid break out.

[Winterborn]

Yeah we should define shut down better...that includes me. I just get a vibe from Z and others that it’s time to move on and go back to normal....let it play out and boom! The economy is back.

Fauci pretty much echoed your thoughts but added reckoning bars during flare ups. Churches, social gatherings, sporting events at all levels should at least be severely restricted.

I think what we’re seeing now is probably what we’re going to see for a long time.

This year’s World Series Champ will be the team with the least cancelled games or the last team to avoid break out.

AZ is by no means in the minority here. People that I know who were for restrictions earlier this year have slowly changed their outlook. They watched the riots take place (and the encouragement by certain parties), the politicization of the responses by the government on all levels (including the media), and are coming to the conclusion that nobody in charge really cares. They espouse to care but in reality the powers that be are in it for their own benefit and the common person is just told to suck it up.

Right or wrong, as this sentiment grows, people are going to care less and less what they are told to do and just give lip service where they have to.

I also think the fact that there is no end in sight is dragging on people and causing them not to care as much. People function better with a defined goal. Having no defined end gets people to start asking the question "why should we wait?" and weighing the pros and cons in their own mind. And this translates into my statement above of people slowly no longer caring.

[kalm]

Yeah we should define shut down better...that includes me. I just get a vibe from Z and others that it’s time to move on and go back to normal....let it play out and boom! The economy is back.

Fauci pretty much echoed your thoughts but added reckoning bars during flare ups. Churches, social gatherings, sporting events at all levels should at least be severely restricted.

I think what we’re seeing now is probably what we’re going to see for a long time.

This year’s World Series Champ will be the team with the least cancelled games or the last team to avoid break out.

AZ is by no means in the minority here. People that I know who were for restrictions earlier this year have slowly changed their outlook. They watched the riots take place (and the encouragement by certain parties), the politicization of the responses by the government on all levels (including the media), and are coming to the conclusion that nobody in charge really cares. They espouse to care but in reality the powers that be are in it for their own benefit and the common person is just told to suck it up.

Right or wrong, as this sentiment grows, people are going to care less and less what they are told to do and just give lip service where they have to.

I also think the fact that there is no end in sight is dragging on people and causing them not to care as much. People function better with a defined goal. Having no defined end gets people to start asking the question "why should we wait?" and weighing the pros and cons in their own mind. And this translates into my statement above of people slowly no longer caring.

Don’t disagree at all. It’s more fog of war stuff. The data and best medical opinions at each moment should be what guides people and adjusted going forward. The virus doesn’t care about the economic to healthcare balancing act.

No one has convinced me yet that to pursue the ah fuckit approach is economically better. Why? Because we’re still in the early innings and have so much to learn. Regardless of whether we were first told to not wear masks.

Interestingly enough, what you’re suggesting is people can’t be relied upon to make rational choices for their safety no to mention that of their community.

Go big government!

(I know that’s not what you believe)

[SeattleGriz]

AZ is by no means in the minority here. People that I know who were for restrictions earlier this year have slowly changed their outlook. They watched the riots take place (and the encouragement by certain parties), the politicization of the responses by the government on all levels (including the media), and are coming to the conclusion that nobody in charge really cares. They espouse to care but in reality the powers that be are in it for their own benefit and the common person is just told to suck it up.

Right or wrong, as this sentiment grows, people are going to care less and less what they are told to do and just give lip service where they have to.

I also think the fact that there is no end in sight is dragging on people and causing them not to care as much. People function better with a defined goal. Having no defined end gets people to start asking the question "why should we wait?" and weighing the pros and cons in their own mind. And this translates into my statement above of people slowly no longer caring.

Don’t disagree at all. It’s more fog of war stuff. The data and best medical opinions at each moment should be what guides people and adjusted going forward. The virus doesn’t care about the economic to healthcare balancing act.

No one has convinced me yet that to pursue the ah fuckit approach is economically better. Why? Because we’re still in the early innings and have so much to learn. Regardless of whether we were first told to not wear masks.

Interestingly enough, what you’re suggesting is people can’t be relied upon to make rational choices for their safety no to mention that of their community.

Go big government!

(I know that’s not what you believe)

Unfortunately, as I proved earlier in this post, good data is lagging. We are not getting good data to base our current situation. The accurate data appears to be one month behind.

[AZGrizFan]

Well Bobby, there’s 18 million people out of work who were working 90 days ago, so you tell me? Even the business that ARE open are operating at a much diminished capacity. And there’s thousands of businesses that’ll NEVER open up again because of this.

1. It's Bob, dammit!
2. I can do math too. If I make more money staying at home than going to work, that's what I'm doing. How can you blame the smart ones for doing that? At least they went to school and learned something.
3. Of course businesses are operating at a lower capacity. People don't want to be there like they used to. Big Ho and I went to a restaurant about a month ago, during the lunch rush hours, there were 4 tables. Not because of restrictions, but because people have become used to getting togo food. They had plenty of people coming in and getting orders to take home. Servers ain't working for a table an hour.

You must have missed the question... What isn't open?

Tourism - down 75%
Hospitality - down 75%
Airlines - down 75% (which means Airports down 75%)
Restaurants - down 75%
Bars - down 100%
Casinos -down 50%
Cruise Ships - down 100% (which means docks/terminals down 100%)
Sporting events - attendance down 100% (which means no vendors, ticket takers, etc., etc. in hundreds of stadiums across the globe)
Hospitals - down 50% - no elective surgeries being performed
Schools - down 90%
Automotive Production - down 75%

I'm guessing a few of these industry components drive the GDP.

And 18 million people out of work with no healthcare. Super.

[Gil Dobie]

1. It's Bob, dammit!
2. I can do math too. If I make more money staying at home than going to work, that's what I'm doing. How can you blame the smart ones for doing that? At least they went to school and learned something.
3. Of course businesses are operating at a lower capacity. People don't want to be there like they used to. Big Ho and I went to a restaurant about a month ago, during the lunch rush hours, there were 4 tables. Not because of restrictions, but because people have become used to getting togo food. They had plenty of people coming in and getting orders to take home. Servers ain't working for a table an hour.

You must have missed the question... What isn't open?

Tourism - down 75%
Hospitality - down 75%
Airlines - down 75% (which means Airports down 75%)
Restaurants - down 75%
Bars - down 100%
Casinos -down 50%
Cruise Ships - down 100% (which means docks/terminals down 100%)
Sporting events - attendance down 100% (which means no vendors, ticket takers, etc., etc. in hundreds of stadiums across the globe)
Hospitals - down 50% - no elective surgeries being performed
Schools - down 90%
Automotive Production - down 75%

I'm guessing a few of these industry components drive the GDP.

And 18 million people out of work with no healthcare. Super.

A hospital in Florida, that my sister works at, is 100% full, 23% are covid patients. Not sure I trust your numbers.

[bobbythekidd]

Tourism - down 75%
Hospitality - down 75%
Airlines - down 75% (which means Airports down 75%)
Restaurants - down 75%
Bars - down 100%
Casinos -down 50%
Cruise Ships - down 100% (which means docks/terminals down 100%)
Sporting events - attendance down 100% (which means no vendors, ticket takers, etc., etc. in hundreds of stadiums across the globe)
Hospitals - down 50% - no elective surgeries being performed
Schools - down 90%
Automotive Production - down 75%

And 18 million people out of work with no healthcare. Super.

AZ, is going to come across as argumentative, but I don't mean it that way. I appreciate your reply, these are just some points to think about.

Tourism - down 75% Consumer driven effect of people being afraid to go places. Free market capitalism at work. Why do you hate capitalism?
Hospitality - down 75% A function of/same as the above... Consumer driven effect of people being afraid to go places. Free market capitalism at work. Why do you hate capitalism?
Airlines - down 75% (which means Airports down 75%) A function of/same as the above... Consumer driven effect of people being afraid to go places. Free market capitalism at work. Why do you hate capitalism?
Restaurants - down 75% A function of/same as the above... Consumer driven effect of people being afraid to go places. Free market capitalism at work. Why do you hate capitalism?
Bars - down 100% Not a key driver of the economy.
Casinos -down 50% Not a key driver of the economy.
Cruise Ships - down 100% (which means docks/terminals down 100%) See above about tourism but this has some weight. They were ordered to close but let's be real here; who would get on a cruise ship right now?
The docks/ports are WFO right now! WTF are you even talking about? People can't be hired fast enough to help and freight levels are setting record numbers every week for months.
Sporting events - attendance down 100% (which means no vendors, ticket takers, etc., etc. in hundreds of stadiums across the globe) Um, not a key driver, but NZ had a packed house at Forsyth Barr Stadium last Saturday.
Hospitals - down 50% - no elective surgeries being performed. Having done zero research into this one, I've heard they are either busting at the seams or dead. I'm guessing the truth is somewhere in between.
Schools - down 90% Not going to argue this one. I don't have any skin in the game and don't yet know where I stand on it.
Automotive Production - down 75% Is this free market again? But to your point, yes, this is a key market in our economy.

And 18 million people out of work with no healthcare. Super. Is this really time you want to promote Universal Healthcare?

[89Hen]

3. Of course businesses are operating at a lower capacity. People don't want to be there like they used to. Big Ho and I went to a restaurant about a month ago, during the lunch rush hours, there were 4 tables. Not because of restrictions, but because people have become used to getting togo food. They had plenty of people coming in and getting orders to take home. Servers ain't working for a table an hour.

You must have missed the question... What isn't open?

I guess I didn't realize you were so partisan Bobbo.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/06/26 ... eg-abbott/

Gov. Greg Abbott orders Texas bars to close again and restaurants to reduce to 50% occupancy as coronavirus spreads

https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2020 ... oronavirus

Even after restaurants are allowed to reopen, they’ll have to follow strict precautionary measures in their dining rooms and kitchens for the foreseeable future.

On Tuesday, Gov. Gavin Newson outlined a set of policies to be enacted at restaurants once California’s stay-at-home orders are lifted, including taking customer temperatures at the door, requiring servers to wear masks and gloves, reducing the number of tables by 50% to increase physical distancing and providing disposable menus.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2020/may/1 ... -capacity/

MGM Resorts International will reopen its first Strip resorts after the coronavirus shutdown with only a quarter of hotel rooms available for guests, a company executive said.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/entertai ... story.html

Later this week, the state will be moving into Phase 3, which allows for gatherings of up to 10 people in businesses including retail stores, salons and offices. Movie theaters are part of the Phase 4 re-openings, which limits gatherings to no more than 50 people.

The Illinois chapter of the National Association of Theater Owners (NATO) is hoping to see that number revised and is advocating for a proposal that would instead limit auditorium attendance to 50% of an auditorium’s seating capacity

[UNI88]

Tourism - down 75%
Hospitality - down 75%
Airlines - down 75% (which means Airports down 75%)
Restaurants - down 75%
Bars - down 100%
Casinos -down 50%
Cruise Ships - down 100% (which means docks/terminals down 100%)
Sporting events - attendance down 100% (which means no vendors, ticket takers, etc., etc. in hundreds of stadiums across the globe)
Hospitals - down 50% - no elective surgeries being performed
Schools - down 90%
Automotive Production - down 75%

I'm guessing a few of these industry components drive the GDP.

And 18 million people out of work with no healthcare. Super.

A hospital in Florida, that my sister works at, is 100% full, 23% are covid patients. Not sure I trust your numbers.

He chizzied those numbers.

I'm waiting for 89 to call him out on it like he does Cleets.

[AZGrizFan]

A hospital in Florida, that my sister works at, is 100% full, 23% are covid patients. Not sure I trust your numbers.

He chizzied those numbers.

I'm waiting for 89 to call him out on it like he does Cleets.

Chizzied. I like that!

[AZGrizFan]

Tourism - down 75%
Hospitality - down 75%
Airlines - down 75% (which means Airports down 75%)
Restaurants - down 75%
Bars - down 100%
Casinos -down 50%
Cruise Ships - down 100% (which means docks/terminals down 100%)
Sporting events - attendance down 100% (which means no vendors, ticket takers, etc., etc. in hundreds of stadiums across the globe)
Hospitals - down 50% - no elective surgeries being performed
Schools - down 90%
Automotive Production - down 75%

And 18 million people out of work with no healthcare. Super.

AZ, is going to come across as argumentative, but I don't mean it that way. I appreciate your reply, these are just some points to think about.

Tourism - down 75% Consumer driven effect of people being afraid to go places. Free market capitalism at work. Why do you hate capitalism?
Hospitality - down 75% A function of/same as the above... Consumer driven effect of people being afraid to go places. Free market capitalism at work. Why do you hate capitalism?
Airlines - down 75% (which means Airports down 75%) A function of/same as the above... Consumer driven effect of people being afraid to go places. Free market capitalism at work. Why do you hate capitalism?
Restaurants - down 75% A function of/same as the above... Consumer driven effect of people being afraid to go places. Free market capitalism at work. Why do you hate capitalism?
Bars - down 100% Not a key driver of the economy.
Casinos -down 50% Not a key driver of the economy.
Cruise Ships - down 100% (which means docks/terminals down 100%) See above about tourism but this has some weight. They were ordered to close but let's be real here; who would get on a cruise ship right now?
The docks/ports are WFO right now! WTF are you even talking about? People can't be hired fast enough to help and freight levels are setting record numbers every week for months.
Sporting events - attendance down 100% (which means no vendors, ticket takers, etc., etc. in hundreds of stadiums across the globe) Um, not a key driver, but NZ had a packed house at Forsyth Barr Stadium last Saturday.
Hospitals - down 50% - no elective surgeries being performed. Having done zero research into this one, I've heard they are either busting at the seams or dead. I'm guessing the truth is somewhere in between.
Schools - down 90% Not going to argue this one. I don't have any skin in the game and don't yet know where I stand on it.
Automotive Production - down 75% Is this free market again? But to your point, yes, this is a key market in our economy.

And 18 million people out of work with no healthcare. Super. Is this really time you want to promote Universal Healthcare?

Bullshit. Americans have proven without a shadow of a doubt that if places are OPEN, they will go. There are so many travel restrictions and occupancy restrictions that you CAN'T go. But hey, yeah, it's "free market capitalism".

[bobbythekidd]

3. Of course businesses are operating at a lower capacity. People don't want to be there like they used to. Big Ho and I went to a restaurant about a month ago, during the lunch rush hours, there were 4 tables. Not because of restrictions, but because people have become used to getting togo food. They had plenty of people coming in and getting orders to take home. Servers ain't working for a table an hour.

You must have missed the question... What isn't open?

I guess I didn't realize you were so partisan Bobbo.

https://www.texastribune.org/2020/06/26 ... eg-abbott/

Gov. Greg Abbott orders Texas bars to close again and restaurants to reduce to 50% occupancy as coronavirus spreads

https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2020 ... oronavirus

Even after restaurants are allowed to reopen, they’ll have to follow strict precautionary measures in their dining rooms and kitchens for the foreseeable future.

On Tuesday, Gov. Gavin Newson outlined a set of policies to be enacted at restaurants once California’s stay-at-home orders are lifted, including taking customer temperatures at the door, requiring servers to wear masks and gloves, reducing the number of tables by 50% to increase physical distancing and providing disposable menus.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2020/may/1 ... -capacity/

MGM Resorts International will reopen its first Strip resorts after the coronavirus shutdown with only a quarter of hotel rooms available for guests, a company executive said.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/entertai ... story.html

Later this week, the state will be moving into Phase 3, which allows for gatherings of up to 10 people in businesses including retail stores, salons and offices. Movie theaters are part of the Phase 4 re-openings, which limits gatherings to no more than 50 people.

The Illinois chapter of the National Association of Theater Owners (NATO) is hoping to see that number revised and is advocating for a proposal that would instead limit auditorium attendance to 50% of an auditorium’s seating capacity

89, I'm not sure how you took that as partisan in any way. I said that people chose not to dine in. Even if there were no restrictions, I think only bars and casinos would function normally in a world of no restrictions. Addiction is a powerful thing. I never liked losing money, (because I can do math) but I love having sex with randoms (because I used to not care about statistics).

[bobbythekidd]

Bullshit. Americans have proven without a shadow of a doubt that if places are OPEN, they will go. There are so many travel restrictions and occupancy restrictions that you CAN'T go. But hey, yeah, it's "free market capitalism".

No substance in your reply at all, dude. Without a shadow of a doubt? You can literally go anywhere in the CONUS you want to go. People aren't doing that. You're better than that, show your work.

Not saying I disagree. I just see what is around me.

[GannonFan]

Bullshit. Americans have proven without a shadow of a doubt that if places are OPEN, they will go. There are so many travel restrictions and occupancy restrictions that you CAN'T go. But hey, yeah, it's "free market capitalism".

No substance in your reply at all, dude. Without a shadow of a doubt? You can literally go anywhere in the CONUS you want to go. People aren't doing that. You're better than that, show your work.

Not saying I disagree. I just see what is around me.

Well, there are plenty of places that have mandatory quarantines, either once you get there or once you get back home. Not many people have the luxury of taking a vacation and then taking another two weeks vacation for the quarantine. So technically you can go anywhere, but in reality there are quite a few restrictions.

[AZGrizFan]

Bullshit. Americans have proven without a shadow of a doubt that if places are OPEN, they will go. There are so many travel restrictions and occupancy restrictions that you CAN'T go. But hey, yeah, it's "free market capitalism".

No substance in your reply at all, dude. Without a shadow of a doubt? You can literally go anywhere in the CONUS you want to go. People aren't doing that. You're better than that, show your work.

Not saying I disagree. I just see what is around me.

Jesus, man. Google is your friend. Look up the # of states that have mandatory quarantines in effect. You most certainly can NOT go "anywhere in the CONUS you want" unless you want to be locked inside for 14 days. People aren't doing it because, whats the fucking point? Go on vacation to sit in a hotel room?

[bobbythekidd]

No substance in your reply at all, dude. Without a shadow of a doubt? You can literally go anywhere in the CONUS you want to go. People aren't doing that. You're better than that, show your work.

Not saying I disagree. I just see what is around me.

Well, there are plenty of places that have mandatory quarantines, either once you get there or once you get back home. Not many people have the luxury of taking a vacation and then taking another two weeks vacation for the quarantine. So technically you can go anywhere, but in reality there are quite a few restrictions.

Thanks Gannon. I wasn't aware of any of those, outside of Hawaii, until I googled it. Again, I am only looking at what is around me, and what I see is I currently live in the worst state in the USA as far as Covid containment goes. Woo Hoo! I'm number one!

[89Hen]

89, I'm not sure how you took that as partisan in any way. I said that people chose not to dine in. Even if there were no restrictions, I think only bars and casinos would function normally in a world of no restrictions. Addiction is a powerful thing. I never liked losing money, (because I can do math) but I love having sex with randoms (because I used to not care about statistics).

The only other options would be stupid or deceitful. I posted the "substance" that MANY, MANY (probably most) have drastic restrictions. What Z posted is correct. What you posted is not.

[bobbythekidd]

No substance in your reply at all, dude. Without a shadow of a doubt? You can literally go anywhere in the CONUS you want to go. People aren't doing that. You're better than that, show your work.

Not saying I disagree. I just see what is around me.

Jesus, man. Google is your friend. Look up the # of states that have mandatory quarantines in effect. You most certainly can NOT go "anywhere in the CONUS you want" unless you want to be locked inside for 14 days. People aren't doing it because, whats the fucking point? Go on vacation to sit in a hotel room?

I apologize. See my reply to Gannon above. My job requires that I travel every week, but, my company has kept me on lockdown since March, and it's been insufferable. I have had no need to to keep up with anything to do with travel. I'll admit my ignorance to this subject.

My only evidence was that my (AT RISK) parents were free to go from the #1 worst western state to the #2 western state, and back again.

[AZGrizFan]

AZ is by no means in the minority here. People that I know who were for restrictions earlier this year have slowly changed their outlook. They watched the riots take place (and the encouragement by certain parties), the politicization of the responses by the government on all levels (including the media), and are coming to the conclusion that nobody in charge really cares. They espouse to care but in reality the powers that be are in it for their own benefit and the common person is just told to suck it up.

Right or wrong, as this sentiment grows, people are going to care less and less what they are told to do and just give lip service where they have to.

I also think the fact that there is no end in sight is dragging on people and causing them not to care as much. People function better with a defined goal. Having no defined end gets people to start asking the question "why should we wait?" and weighing the pros and cons in their own mind. And this translates into my statement above of people slowly no longer caring.

Don’t disagree at all. It’s more fog of war stuff. The data and best medical opinions at each moment should be what guides people and adjusted going forward. The virus doesn’t care about the economic to healthcare balancing act.

No one has convinced me yet that to pursue the ah fuckit approach is economically better. Why? Because we’re still in the early innings and have so much to learn. Regardless of whether we were first told to not wear masks.

Interestingly enough, what you’re suggesting is people can’t be relied upon to make rational choices for their safety no to mention that of their community.

Go big government!

(I know that’s not what you believe)

Actually, it's exactly the opposite, and WB's post is 100% spot on. People are finally coming to the realization that the "panic" part of this whole thing was BS. They ARE making rational choices, after first making IRRATIONAL choices. Blame it on mixed and constantly changing messages, blame it on political games, blame it on whatever you want....but a 99.8% survival rate for ANYTHING means it's pretty fucking safe to be out there living your life. Personally, I'll take on that burden of an incremental risk of something "bad" happening and move along with my life. You wanna live in a bunker your whole life (because there's no end in sight, bro), be my guest. Not exactly sure what you're "waiting" for....complete elimination? 100% effective vaccine? But the answer's NEVER coming....this thing is with us in perpetuity...gonna have to get used to it and decide whether you want to...

[AshevilleApp]

No substance in your reply at all, dude. Without a shadow of a doubt? You can literally go anywhere in the CONUS you want to go. People aren't doing that. You're better than that, show your work.

Not saying I disagree. I just see what is around me.

Jesus, man. Google is your friend. Look up the # of states that have mandatory quarantines in effect. You most certainly can NOT go "anywhere in the CONUS you want" unless you want to be locked inside for 14 days. People aren't doing it because, whats the fucking point? Go on vacation to sit in a hotel room?

Aren't you about to go to New Mexico? You planning on being quarantined?