FCS Top 50 and Positional Ratings

[CatMom]

That's the issue. If you don't see the guys play, how can you judge? I can only account for those I see in the SLC and later in the playoffs. If you haven't followed player A or B, he doesn't get into these polls - always subjective as I see it - in favor of player C or D. You can't follow every FCS team.

Anywho..... here's my 2 cents for DE. Last year's highlights and the Bio link does not have the 2008 recap yet.

http://1stdownscouting.com/

scroll down to the 2010 Rising Stars link

The site is on hiatus for being updated for the 2009 season. That will happen in a few weeks and NO it's not my site, I'm just building it for the guy.

[Grizalltheway]

Holy shit, a CatMom sighting!

[native]

Kudos for all the hard work it took to put this thing together!

[canyoncat]

Wow, very impressive list. Still I am going to give a shout out for a few Montana State players who should make your list next year:

DT Dan Ogden 6-0 271 JR. Extremely quick agile DT who spends a ton of time in the opponents backfield. Battled a bad ankle most of last year and still produced.

MLB Clay Bignell 6-2 236 SO. Taking over for All American Bobby Daly. When filling in for Bobby last year showed a knack for making plays just like Bobby.

DE Brad Smith 6-5 237 SO. Pressed into action last year due to injuries and played very well. Especially against Minnesota. Has great speed. He had a very good spring and I think he is going to have a monster year this year. As good as Dane is, this kid may be better!

OC Alex Terrien 6-4 280 SO. I really liked the way this kid played when he took over for the injured Jim Verlanic. The line seemed to become a lot more powerful and started to open up some huge holes for the RB's.

OT Mike Person 6-5 295 JR. He is now a three year starter. A very athletic smart tackle. Has a mean streak and finishes off blocks. Plays hard all they through to the whistle.

[Tribe4SF]

I'll predict that RJ Archer will move up your QB list, Jake Trantin will appear on your LB list, and DJ McAualay will be on your WR list.

[BigSkyBears]

NIce research!

Here's my Top Ten

QUARTERBACKS
#1 Greg Denham, UC Davis, Jr.
#2 Justin Roper, Montana, Jr.
#3 Bryan Waggener, Northern Colorado, Sr.
#4 Armanti Edwards, Appalachian State, Sr.
#5 Matt Nichols, Eastern Washington, Sr.
#6 Cameron Higgins, Weber State, Jr.
#7 Derrick Fourroux, McNeese State, Sr.
#8 R.J. Toman, New Hampshire, Jr.
#9 Brian Babin, SE Louisiana, Sr.
#10 Pat Devlin, Delaware, Jr.

Wait until April 1st for the April fool's jokes

Edwards has to be #1 right now and it is hard to say that Waggener should be ahead of Higgins or Nichols. I have seen all 3 and Waggener has NFL tools but is just not very good yet. Denham is one that I could see being top 5 in the next year or so. He flashes but has the luxury of 2 great WRs and I want to see how he does in 2010 when they both are in the NFL. Nichols has so many weapons that he could surprise us all and be a legit Payton candidate, if those guys don't let that NCAA ban get to them.

Waggener is probably the 2nd best qb in the Sky, behind Higgins. Are you saying Bryan has the tools to be an NFL player and just needs to develop them? I'll agree with that.

[BlackFalkin]

top wide recievers: Aaron Boyce #21??? GET THE F- outta here.

[Appaholic]

NIce research!

Here's my Top Ten

QUARTERBACKS
#1 Greg Denham, UC Davis, Jr.
#2 Justin Roper, Montana, Jr.
#3 Bryan Waggener, Northern Colorado, Sr.
#4 Armanti Edwards, Appalachian State, Sr.
#5 Matt Nichols, Eastern Washington, Sr.
#6 Cameron Higgins, Weber State, Jr.
#7 Derrick Fourroux, McNeese State, Sr.
#8 R.J. Toman, New Hampshire, Jr.
#9 Brian Babin, SE Louisiana, Sr.
#10 Pat Devlin, Delaware, Jr.

I take it you're from out west....while I can respect the fact that you've probably seen Denham, Roper & Waggener play, I'd like to know your reasoning behind their ranking ahead of Armanti. Pro potential at the position?

[native]

Here are the special teams.

KICKERS
1. Andrew Samson, Penn, Jr.
2. Davis Rodriguez, Lafayette, Jr.
3. Brian Pate, William & Mary, Sr.
4. Ryan Gates, Gardner-Webb, Soph.
5. Jeremy Licea, Alabama A&M, Sr.
6. Eric Perri, Jackson State, Sr.
7. Peter Reifenrath, South Dakota State, Jr.
8. Shawn Bibeau, North Dakota State, Sr.
9. Patrick Long, Harvard, Sr.
10. Adrian Mora, Georgia Southern, Soph.
11. Jeff Turner, SE Louisiana, Sr.
12. Ross Schexnayder, Nicholls State, Sr.
13. Michael York, Northern Colorado, Sr.
14. Andrew Howard, Richmond, Sr.
15. Taylor Wilkins, Sam Houston State, Sr.

...

This list of kickers is a good start, SCFF, but it needs a lot of work!

For example, seven of the top ten FCS kick scorers didn't make the list, nor did one of the top ten FG% and three of the top ten Red Zone FG% kickers.

A third of the kickers on the list aren't among the top 25 FCS kick scorers, and seven of the fifteen do not even do kickoffs. Even worse, more than half of the kickers on the list LOST games for their teams by missing kicks, and three actually lost more games for their teams than they won!

Great running backs who score lots of touchdowns and catch passes on stronger teams get more attention than their brethren on weaker teams with equal or greater yard-per-carry averages and those who cannot catch. The same should be even more true (and is true for the NFL scouts) for kickers who score lots of points and peform kickoff duty in addition to field goals and extra points. More to the point, great players win games for their teams!

The NCAA top 20 kicker FG% list is a good place to start, but is inadequate by itself to capture the value of kickers to their teams. My criteria for kicker value include total kicking points scored, FG%, red zone FG%, longest FG, average net kickoff yards, and clutch kicks.

Based on these criteria, here is my list of the top 20 returning FCS kickers for 2009:

Rank, Kicker, Team
1 Eddie Carmona, Central Ark
2 Jon Williams, Weber St
3 Brian Pate, William & Mary
4 Kyle Dougherty, SIU
5 Jeff Turner, SE Louisiana
6 Billy Hallgren, UNI
7 Ryan Gates, Gardner-Webb
8 Jason Vitaris, App State
9 Davis Rodriguez, Lafayette
10 Ross Schexnayder, Nicholls St
11 Jason Cunningham, Montana St
12 Eric Perri, Jackson St
13 Taylor Wilkins, Sam Houston St
14 Shawn Bibeau, ND State
15 Trevor Scott, Fla A&M
16 Patrick Long, Harvard
17 Andrew Howard, Richmond
18 Peter Reifenrath, SD State
19 Jeremy Licea, Alabama A&M
20T Andrew Samson, Penn
20T Adrian Mora, Ga Southern

[SmallCollegeFBFan]

Here are the special teams.

KICKERS
1. Andrew Samson, Penn, Jr.
2. Davis Rodriguez, Lafayette, Jr.
3. Brian Pate, William & Mary, Sr.
4. Ryan Gates, Gardner-Webb, Soph.
5. Jeremy Licea, Alabama A&M, Sr.
6. Eric Perri, Jackson State, Sr.
7. Peter Reifenrath, South Dakota State, Jr.
8. Shawn Bibeau, North Dakota State, Sr.
9. Patrick Long, Harvard, Sr.
10. Adrian Mora, Georgia Southern, Soph.
11. Jeff Turner, SE Louisiana, Sr.
12. Ross Schexnayder, Nicholls State, Sr.
13. Michael York, Northern Colorado, Sr.
14. Andrew Howard, Richmond, Sr.
15. Taylor Wilkins, Sam Houston State, Sr.

...

This list of kickers is a good start, SCFF, but it needs a lot of work!

For example, seven of the top ten FCS kick scorers didn't make the list, nor did one of the top ten FG% and three of the top

ten Red Zone FG% kickers.

A third of the kickers on the list aren't among the top 25 FCS kick scorers, and seven of the fifteen do not even do kickoffs. Even worse, more than half of the kickers on the list LOST Games for their teams by missing kicks, and three actually lost more games for their teams than they won.

Great running backs who score lots of touchdowns and catch passes on stronger teams get more attention than their brethren on weaker teams with equal or greater yard-per-carry averages and those who cannot catch. The same should be even more true for kickers who score lots of points and peform kickoff duty in addition to field goals and extra points. More to the point, great players win games for their teams!

The NCAA top 20 kicker FG% list is a good place to start, but is inadequate by itself to capture the value of kickers to their teams. My criteria for kicker value include total kicking points scored, FG%, red zone FG%, longest FG, average net kickoff yards, and clutch kicks.

Based on these criteria, here is my list of the top 20 returning FCS kickers for 2009:

Rank Kicker, Team
1 Eddie Carmona, Central Ark
2 Jon Williams, Weber St
3 Brian Pate, William & Mary
4 Kyle Dougherty, SIU
5 Jeff Turner, SE Louisiana
6 Billy Hallgren, UNI
7T Davis Rodriguez, Lafayette
7T Ryan Gates, Gardner-Webb
7T Jason Vitaris, App State
10 Ross Schexnayder, Nicholls St
11T Eric Perri, Jackson St
11T Jason Cunningham, Montana St
13T Shawn Bibeau, ND State
13T Taylor Wilkins, Sam Houston St
15 Trevor Scott, Fla A&M
16 Patrick Long, Harvard
17T Jeremy Licea, Alabama A&M
17T Peter Reifenrath, SD State
17T Andrew Howard, Richmond
20T Andrew Samson, Penn
20T Adrian Mora, Ga Southern

I don't usually rank a kicker who hits below 60% on his field goals. If I do they are ranked much lower. I don't think the App State kicker is top 10 yet. He is decent but he wasn't even named all-socon over Mora last year. Samson of Penn was a 2nd or 3rd team All-American last year. His % was pretty solid.

[skinny_uncle]

I can't believe Kyle Dougherty of SIU didn't make your kicker list. MVFC Special Teams Player of the Week for his game-winning 40-yard field goal as time expired versus Northern Iowa...Hit a career-long 52-yard field goal at Illinois State...Named honorable mention all-MVFC...Led SIU in scoring with 85 points. 15-23 on FGs.

[pigskin1]

Nice work and effort SCFF.

Not sure, but I thought I heard Ken Wood, the punter, transferred. Can any Griz fans help me out here? I didn't see his name on the team roster.

Yes, Wood left the program. I am not sure how true this is, but he supposedly is trying to make the team at Texas A & M. I did not even look for any GRIZ kicker or punter. As for kicker, I think Brody McKnight will have a good year. Punting job is up in the air, but a few egrizzers posted they seen a new punter booming some. I am not sure who that might be though.

Woods is walking on to Texas AM and as he was an unrecruited walkon at Montana he does not have to sit out a year. Not sure why he would walk on at TAM as they signed a punter last Feb. out of high school. I can possibly see them using Wood for one yr. while the other kid redshirts although there is plenty of competition on the roster for punter. Griz have Sean Wren coming as punter. He is from Fullerton Calif. He put up some great stats. Looks like we will be fine at punter.

[native]

I can't believe Kyle Dougherty of SIU didn't make your kicker list. MVFC Special Teams Player of the Week for his game-winning 40-yard field goal as time expired versus Northern Iowa...Hit a career-long 52-yard field goal at Illinois State...Named honorable mention all-MVFC...Led SIU in scoring with 85 points. 15-23 on FGs.

I agree, Uncle! Dougherty ranks fourth on my list.

Among Kyle's many positive attributes is an 83.3 % red zone FG success rate, ranking 9th among the top kickers, and that aforementioned 52 yard field goal, which ranks 2nd. He also ranks 7th in net kickoff yards among the top kickers. Honors are important but I take them with a grain of salt because of the politics involved and the amazing lack of understanding of placekicking on the part of a surprising number of DI head coaches.

What I really like about Dougherty is his performance under pressure! He won TWO games for the Salukis with his kicks, a 40 yarder vs UNI with 0.0 secs remaining to win 27-24, and a 28 yard game winner against SDSU with 2:59 remaining. Unlike many of the other top ranked kickers, Dougherty lost NO games for SIU.

Kyle is the kind of clutch kicker I want when all the chips are on the line!

[mtgrizfan4life]

FYI, I do not have a problem that McKnight was not listed in your kickers. Based upon how the kicking team performed last year, he should not have made the preseason list. With that said, I am confident come season's end, he will belong on that list.

Dan Carpenter struggled some his Freshman year too, and the rest is history. I expect the same kind of progress throughout McKnight's career too. In my opinion, McKnight has the stronger leg at the same stage than Carpenter did. Carps leg strength started to show drastic improvement at the end of his JR year. His SR year was unbelievable though.

[native]

...I don't usually rank a kicker who hits below 60% on his field goals. If I do they are ranked much lower. I don't think the App State kicker is top 10 yet. He is decent but he wasn't even named all-socon over Mora last year. Samson of Penn was a 2nd or 3rd team All-American last year. His % was pretty solid.

I take your points, SCFF. My rating method needs refinement and I appreciate all your help!

However, I remain unsatisfied with any single metric as a way to rate placekickers, and equally dissatisfied with a rating system that ignores leg strength or clutch performances.

You and I are in agreement about the 60% FG threshold. ALL of the kickers on your list and mine met it, as did more than 100 FCS kickers in 2008! But because of the large variation in the distances from which kickers are asked to attempt field goals, I think overall FG% is a poor way to compare one kicker with another. I prefer red zone FG% as a comparison of accuracy because it eliminates much of the variation to allow for a more controlled and therefore more accurate comparison.

[skinny_uncle]

I can't believe Kyle Dougherty of SIU didn't make your kicker list. MVFC Special Teams Player of the Week for his game-winning 40-yard field goal as time expired versus Northern Iowa...Hit a career-long 52-yard field goal at Illinois State...Named honorable mention all-MVFC...Led SIU in scoring with 85 points. 15-23 on FGs.

I agree, Uncle! Dougherty ranks fourth on my list.

Among Kyle's many positive attributes is an 83.3 % red zone FG success rate, ranking 9th among the top kickers, and that aforementioned 52 yard field goal, which ranks 2nd. He also ranks 7th in net kickoff yards among the top kickers. Honors are important but I take them with a grain of salt because of the politics involved and the amazing lack of understanding of placekicking on the part of a surprising number of DI head coaches.

What I really like about Dougherty is his performance under pressure! He won TWO games for the Salukis with his kicks, a 40 yarder vs UNI with 0.0 secs remaining to win 27-24, and a 28 yard game winner against SDSU with 2:59 remaining. Unlike many of the other top ranked kickers, Dougherty lost NO games for SIU.

Kyle is the kind of clutch kicker I want when all the chips are on the line!

Thank you for your support.

[native]

Thank you for your support.

Thanks, Uncle, but I just call 'em like I see 'em, based on as much objective, factual information as I can put together. Good luck to Kyle and the Salukis in 2009.

[Wildcat Ryan]

Boy, I sure hope Weber can live up to all the preseason hype

[ArizonaQb]

Appaholic,
Yes, out in the West.

Edwards is an extraordinary athlete/ NFL prospect at WR.

My top ten is based upon NFL projection. Higgins of Weber St. is a proven winner but I do not believe he will be in the NFL. From what I have seen he is not a pocket passer.

With regard to Denham (UC Davis) from what I have heard (and seen) he's one of the best pocket passers in the country at any level.