So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

[CID1990]

No. An abortion procedure kills a living member of our species. As I said, whether the story is true or not has no impact on the substance of the debate about abortion. But if it looks likely that it's not true after all the buzz surrounding it, the emotional presentation, the stories of refusal to air the trailer, etc., it hurts the credibility of the pro life side. It's a very emotional presentation of what's supposed to be a true story and if it turns out to be a false story that's going to hurt.

And, frankly, at this point I think it's a false story. That Facebook post alone was close to enough for me to think the woman didn't quit because of an abortion procedure she saw then I read about that reporter looking for records and the State reporting requirements. I can never be 100% sure but I feel pretty confident that the woman didn't quit her job because of a procedure she saw and that incident she described never happened.

You're a law enforcement guy. What do YOU think?

John,
A person can become president of the united states and hardly even grasp the concept of truth
why is the truth so important here..?

Fundamentalist Christian America ignores the truth every week these past 2 years
I wouldn't worry too much about this group of people and "The Truth"

The biggest lie over abortion isn’t the religious tizzy, Clitz

It is the skirting around what abortion is - it is killing. Maybe when the pro abortion crowd stops equivocating on that then maybe we can get right with it and move on with ignoring the superstitionists

I see a lot of daylight between superstition and pure dishonesty

And don’t get me wrong - I’m all for the population control angle here. But before we can completely devalue human life enough to do the things we need to - we need to stop lying about what abortion is


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ibanez]

Well the pro life side might have over reached on that "Unplanned" movie. Yesterday, for the first time, I saw the first indication that the "true story" might not be true. It came during what I think was a fair interview of "Uplanned" producer Joe Knopp. You can see the interview at https://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2019/04/1 ... -movie.cnn. At about 2:08 in Smerconish put up the text of a Facebook post by Abby Johnson on the day she quit planned parenthood. I put a screen snip of it below the text of this post. That, to me, calls her claim that she quit because she was disturbed over what she saw during an abortion into serious question. I looked up what I think is the Texas Monthly article Smierconish referenced at https://www.texasmonthly.com/politics/the-convert/. It's got this in it:

Johnson’s account is so plausible and rich in detail that even Planned Parenthood seems not to have investigated whether this event ever took place. At my request, the staff at the Bryan clinic examined patient records from September 26, the day Johnson claims to have had her conversion experience, and spoke with the physician who performed abortions on that date. According to Planned Parenthood, there is no record of an ultrasound-guided abortion performed on September 26. The physician on duty told the organization that he did not use an ultrasound that day, nor did Johnson assist on any abortion procedure.

If it turns out that Johnson's story is false that would have no bearing on the substance of the abortion debate. But it sure as heck won't help the pro life cause to have a big deal made out of a "true story" that's a lie.

Then again..it is a movie.

Spoiler alert - Braveheart is 99.9999% fiction. The only things that are historically accurate are some names, events and "locations". But even their Battle of Stirling Bridge doesn't take place at a bridge.

[Chizzang]

John,
A person can become president of the united states and hardly even grasp the concept of truth
why is the truth so important here..?

Fundamentalist Christian America ignores the truth every week these past 2 years
I wouldn't worry too much about this group of people and "The Truth"

The biggest lie over abortion isn’t the religious tizzy, Clitz

It is the skirting around what abortion is - it is killing. Maybe when the pro abortion crowd stops equivocating on that then maybe we can get right with it and move on with ignoring the superstitionists

I see a lot of daylight between superstition and pure dishonesty

And don’t get me wrong - I’m all for the population control angle here. But before we can completely devalue human life enough to do the things we need to - we need to stop lying about what abortion is

Oh look a conservative making an inspired plea for "The Truth"
well la-de-da and welcome to the party - long time no see

it's been a few years...
Since I've seen a conservative do anything other than claim the truth isn't really that important
Now all of a sudden it's desperately important



Pardon me while I laugh out loud

[CID1990]

The biggest lie over abortion isn’t the religious tizzy, Clitz

It is the skirting around what abortion is - it is killing. Maybe when the pro abortion crowd stops equivocating on that then maybe we can get right with it and move on with ignoring the superstitionists

I see a lot of daylight between superstition and pure dishonesty

And don’t get me wrong - I’m all for the population control angle here. But before we can completely devalue human life enough to do the things we need to - we need to stop lying about what abortion is

Oh look a conservative making an inspired plea for "The Truth"
well la-de-da and welcome to the party - long time no see

it's been a few years...
Since I've seen a conservative do anything other than claim the truth isn't really that important
Now all of a sudden it's desperately important



Pardon me while I laugh out loud

Just because I don’t have the energy to point out every time Trump lies is irrelevant.

As you have said, he does it continuously. I‘m fine with subcontracting pointing it out to you and a few others.

Abortion is packaged and made palatable by diverting from the fact that it is killing.

Before we can get right with population control we need to desensitize ourselves to killing humans. Calling abortion “choice” does not help with that.

Abortion: killing

Sent East: killing

Reeducation in Siberia: killing

Special treatment: killing

Grande Horizontale: French prostitute




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnStOnge]

Then again..it is a movie.

Spoiler alert - Braveheart is 99.9999% fiction. The only things that are historically accurate are some names, events and "locations". But even their Battle of Stirling Bridge doesn't take place at a bridge.

Yes there is something to that. It's an unfortunate thing about movies on historical events. But in this case we are talking about a very hot issue and I think it's reasonable to think the people who made the movie are presenting it as a "true story" of something that really happened. If they are presenting it as a story about a woman who quit because she saw a particular abortion procedure and saw that the fetus was fighting for its life and the truth is she quit because she was told her performance was slipping and she didn't feel appreciated under circumstances where "Anyone that knows me knows how committed I was to that job" I think that is a problem.

[Ibanez]

Then again..it is a movie.

Spoiler alert - Braveheart is 99.9999% fiction. The only things that are historically accurate are some names, events and "locations". But even their Battle of Stirling Bridge doesn't take place at a bridge.

Yes there is something to that. It's an unfortunate thing about movies on historical events. But in this case we are talking about a very hot issue and I think it's reasonable to think the people who made the movie are presenting it as a "true story" of something that really happened. If they are presenting it as a story about a woman who quit because she saw a particular abortion procedure and saw that the fetus was fighting for its life and the truth is she quit because she was told her performance was slipping and she didn't feel appreciated under circumstances where "Anyone that knows me knows how committed I was to that job" I think that is a problem.

There's a lot to it.

[Ivytalk]

Then again..it is a movie.

Spoiler alert - Braveheart is 99.9999% fiction. The only things that are historically accurate are some names, events and "locations". But even their Battle of Stirling Bridge doesn't take place at a bridge.

Yes there is something to that. It's an unfortunate thing about movies on historical events. But in this case we are talking about a very hot issue and I think it's reasonable to think the people who made the movie are presenting it as a "true story" of something that really happened. If they are presenting it as a story about a woman who quit because she saw a particular abortion procedure and saw that the fetus was fighting for its life and the truth is she quit because she was told her performance was slipping and she didn't feel appreciated under circumstances where "Anyone that knows me knows how committed I was to that job" I think that is a problem.

We get that. In fact, we got it several posts ago. Time for your meds. You may leave the thread now.

[Pwns]

And then there's this...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 70121.html

But it's pro choice and not pro-abortion, amiright?

[Chizzang]

And then there's this...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 70121.html

But it's pro choice and not pro-abortion, amiright?

If the state is going to have to pay for it / provide care for it and ultimately raise it...



actually they should auction that baby to a rich family looking for a kid

[89Hen]

Holy slippery slope.

[Chizzang]

Holy slippery slope.

oh come on, this is our favorite game around here (right?)

[89Hen]

Holy slippery slope.

oh come on, this is our favorite game around here (right?)

Yeah... but this one is one that ANYONE should be able to agree. Are we going to have IQ tests to see if people should have babies? How about felons? How about really ugly people?

If you're pregnant, you should have the baby unless having it would cause the mother to die. Sorry, you're NEVER going to change my mind on that one.

[Chizzang]

oh come on, this is our favorite game around here (right?)

Yeah... but this one is one that ANYONE should be able to agree. Are we going to have IQ tests to see if people should have babies? How about felons? How about really ugly people?

If you're pregnant, you should have the baby unless having it would cause the mother to die. Sorry, you're NEVER going to change my mind on that one.

I'm not saying that I disagree with you...
I just happen to not care what Europe does
Just like Pro-Lifers here in the US when it comes to brown babies in other countries - they don't care



is it still okay to not care..?

[89Hen]

Yeah... but this one is one that ANYONE should be able to agree. Are we going to have IQ tests to see if people should have babies? How about felons? How about really ugly people?

If you're pregnant, you should have the baby unless having it would cause the mother to die. Sorry, you're NEVER going to change my mind on that one.

I'm not saying that I disagree with you...
I just happen to not care what Europe does
Just like Pro-Lifers here in the US when it comes to brown babies in other countries - they don't care



is it still okay to not care..?

I do care what Europe does because killing babies is wrong all around the world. USA babies are no more or less valuable than any. One of those stupid Euro countries bragged about almost eliminating Downs... they just killed them all. Fuck that. I have friends who have Downs children and they are some of the most loving people I've ever met.

[Ivytalk]

I’m going to type in the words “Catholic” and “Yankees” to see if I can lure Father JJ into this discussion.

[∞∞∞]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/h ... 70121.html

Seems like a reasonable solution.

[∞∞∞]

One of those stupid Euro countries bragged about almost eliminating Downs... they just killed them all. **** that. I have friends who have Downs children and they are some of the most loving people I've ever met.

You also forget to mention that those nations gave the woman the choice and in almost 100% of the cases, they still aborted the child after being fully educated on the issue.

An acquaintance had a child with downs syndrome. She hated him (yes, hate). There was nothing there: no emotion, no love, complete dependence, violent tendencies. Yes many are loving people, but those are typically the cases we hear about and see in public.

BTW, she gave him to the state. She was devoting so much time just caring for him she didn't realize how much she had been ignoring an older child who began developing psychological issues.

[Chizzang]

I'm not saying that I disagree with you...
I just happen to not care what Europe does
Just like Pro-Lifers here in the US when it comes to brown babies in other countries - they don't care



is it still okay to not care..?

I do care what Europe does because killing babies is wrong all around the world. USA babies are no more or less valuable than any. One of those stupid Euro countries bragged about almost eliminating Downs... they just killed them all. Fuck that. I have friends who have Downs children and they are some of the most loving people I've ever met.

It's full time work...
having to pretend to care so as to keep up the appearances of evenly applied morality



Good luck with all that

[Silenoz]

One of those stupid Euro countries bragged about almost eliminating Downs... they just killed them all. **** that. I have friends who have Downs children and they are some of the most loving people I've ever met.

You also forget to mention that those nations gave the woman the choice and in almost 100% of the cases, they still aborted the child after being fully educated on the issue.

An acquaintance had a child with downs syndrome. She hated him (yes, hate). There was nothing there: no emotion, no love, complete dependence, violent tendencies. Yes many are loving people, but those are typically the cases we hear about and see in public.

BTW, she gave him to the state. She was devoting so much time just caring for him she didn't realize how much she had been ignoring an older child who began developing psychological issues.

I vote we kill the gingers next. God knows those parents will be better off.

[89Hen]

One of those stupid Euro countries bragged about almost eliminating Downs... they just killed them all. **** that. I have friends who have Downs children and they are some of the most loving people I've ever met.

You also forget to mention that those nations gave the woman the choice and in almost 100% of the cases, they still aborted the child after being fully educated on the issue.

An acquaintance had a child with downs syndrome. She hated him (yes, hate). There was nothing there: no emotion, no love, complete dependence, violent tendencies. Yes many are loving people, but those are typically the cases we hear about and see in public.

BTW, she gave him to the state. She was devoting so much time just caring for him she didn't realize how much she had been ignoring an older child who began developing psychological issues.

You are dead to me asshole.

[89Hen]

having to pretend to care so as to keep up the appearances of evenly applied morality

Wow. Just wow. You are a fucking asshole too.

[JohnStOnge]

One of those stupid Euro countries bragged about almost eliminating Downs... they just killed them all. **** that. I have friends who have Downs children and they are some of the most loving people I've ever met.

You also forget to mention that those nations gave the woman the choice and in almost 100% of the cases, they still aborted the child after being fully educated on the issue.

An acquaintance had a child with downs syndrome. She hated him (yes, hate). There was nothing there: no emotion, no love, complete dependence, violent tendencies. Yes many are loving people, but those are typically the cases we hear about and see in public.

BTW, she gave him to the state. She was devoting so much time just caring for him she didn't realize how much she had been ignoring an older child who began developing psychological issues.

What it comes down to is the question of whether it's OK to kill somebody with Downs syndrome: The fallacy is in thinking that killing them before they are born makes some kind of moral difference. So if we kill them before they are born that is different than waiting until someone is born, seeing that they have Downs syndrome, and killing them then.

If one thinks it's acceptable to kill somebody because they have Downs syndrome argue that it's acceptable to kill somebody because they have Downs syndrome. Don't proceed on the basis of the false premise that you're not killing somebody when you have an abortion.

[Chizzang]

having to pretend to care so as to keep up the appearances of evenly applied morality

Wow. Just wow. You are a fucking asshole too.

One is an easy target sitting atop a high horse...



Remember:
God kills damn near 25,000 children every day - but somehow he's not an asshole

https://www.unicef.org/mdg/childmortality.html

[Pwns]

One of those stupid Euro countries bragged about almost eliminating Downs... they just killed them all. **** that. I have friends who have Downs children and they are some of the most loving people I've ever met.

You also forget to mention that those nations gave the woman the choice and in almost 100% of the cases, they still aborted the child after being fully educated on the issue.

An acquaintance had a child with downs syndrome. She hated him (yes, hate). There was nothing there: no emotion, no love, complete dependence, violent tendencies. Yes many are loving people, but those are typically the cases we hear about and see in public.

BTW, she gave him to the state. She was devoting so much time just caring for him she didn't realize how much she had been ignoring an older child who began developing psychological issues.

I'm sure they were given accurate and not-biased information about Down's and what to expect.

[Pwns]

I do care what Europe does because killing babies is wrong all around the world. USA babies are no more or less valuable than any. One of those stupid Euro countries bragged about almost eliminating Downs... they just killed them all. Fuck that. I have friends who have Downs children and they are some of the most loving people I've ever met.

It's full time work...
having to pretend to care so as to keep up the appearances of evenly applied morality



Good luck with all that

You can pretty much tell who doesn't care for children and isn't interested in having any of their own children by comments like this. Of course a person that doesn't really doesn't like children isn't going to understand the bond a parent can have with a Down's kid.

I'm not trying to make fun of you. Some of us are meant to be moms or dads, and others are meant to just be the cool aunt or uncle.