https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/11/ ... MAxIfbURoAWork has advanced on some of these elements. The UN Environment Programme-led Inclusive Wealth Index shows the aggregation through accounting and shadow pricing of produced capital, natural capital and human capital for 140 countries. The global growth rate of wealth tracked by this index is much lower than growth in GDP. In fact, the 2018 data suggests natural capital declined for 140 countries for the period of 1992 to 2014.
Interestingly, many countries record GDP growth while they lose natural capital. One can see the trade-off among various types of capital, but the report clearly conveys that mixing income with wealth is bad economics and dangerous for sustainability measurement.
The Index’s findings include strong recommendations to help reach global sustainability targets, including the UN Sustainable Development Goals. Closely tracking countries’ productive bases is key, as a declining asset base implies a non-sustainable trajectory. Many of the assets critical for maintaining productive bases are either not priced or are priced at much lower levels than they should be. This is especially true for natural capital and human capital assets. Natural capital assets such as forests and water bodies have only been valued for the products they provide for the market, such as timber and fish. However, these ecosystems offer a much larger suite of services, such as water purification, water regulation and habitat provisioning for species, among many others. These are clearly valuable services.
The real economy...
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kalm
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The real economy...
Shouldn't be measured by just GDP. We fail to assign value in many important categories when analysing "growth", and we view some positive outcomes as declining GDP.
- Grizalltheway
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Re: The real economy...
AZGrizFan wrote:Whatever you whiny loser, just get over it.
- 89Hen
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Re: The real economy...
First paragraph started to lose me. Sounded like a feel good index or the idea that Justin Bateman pitched in the movie Hancock.

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kalm
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Re: The real economy...
Here are a couple of examples...89Hen wrote:First paragraph started to lose me. Sounded like a feel good index or the idea that Justin Bateman pitched in the movie Hancock.
An affordable cancer drug that is successful reduces GDP.
Less war reduces GDP.
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CAA Flagship
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Re: The real economy...
Is this a solution without a problem?
What actions do people/countries take based on GDP numbers? What's the real impact?
What actions do people/countries take based on GDP numbers? What's the real impact?
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kalm
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Re: The real economy...
Economic policy isn’t based on GDP?CAA Flagship wrote:Is this a solution without a problem?
What actions do people/countries take based on GDP numbers? What's the real impact?
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Re: The real economy...
So combining your two posts are you saying that countries are purposely delaying or inhibiting affordable cancer drugs that are successful as part of their economic policy to inflate GDP? Which countries are doing that? Are we doing that here?kalm wrote:Economic policy isn’t based on GDP?CAA Flagship wrote:Is this a solution without a problem?
What actions do people/countries take based on GDP numbers? What's the real impact?
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Re: The real economy...
What specifically about "Economic policy"?kalm wrote:Economic policy isn’t based on GDP?CAA Flagship wrote:Is this a solution without a problem?
What actions do people/countries take based on GDP numbers? What's the real impact?
Do you mean Federal Reserve's monetary decisions or do you mean political decisions such as tax reform, or both?
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kalm
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Re: The real economy...
No. They weren’t meant to be combined.GannonFan wrote:So combining your two posts are you saying that countries are purposely delaying or inhibiting affordable cancer drugs that are successful as part of their economic policy to inflate GDP? Which countries are doing that? Are we doing that here?kalm wrote:
Economic policy isn’t based on GDP?
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kalm
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Re: The real economy...
Leaning way more to the political decisions side. GDP is often held up as a measuring stick, but it leaves out some crucial elements.CAA Flagship wrote:What specifically about "Economic policy"?kalm wrote:
Economic policy isn’t based on GDP?
Do you mean Federal Reserve's monetary decisions or do you mean political decisions such as tax reform, or both?
Another is environmental quality. In the short term, regulation can hurt GDP and slow growth but in the long term can increase standard of living including health.
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Re: The real economy...
kalm wrote:No. They weren’t meant to be combined.GannonFan wrote:
So combining your two posts are you saying that countries are purposely delaying or inhibiting affordable cancer drugs that are successful as part of their economic policy to inflate GDP? Which countries are doing that? Are we doing that here?
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- 89Hen
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Re: The real economy...
At least he's honest... ish.GannonFan wrote:kalm wrote:
No. They weren’t meant to be combined.

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Re: The real economy...
OK. But I think GDP is used more out of convenience than anything. No one number dictates any policy, nor should it.kalm wrote:Leaning way more to the political decisions side. GDP is often held up as a measuring stick, but it leaves out some crucial elements.CAA Flagship wrote: What specifically about "Economic policy"?
Do you mean Federal Reserve's monetary decisions or do you mean political decisions such as tax reform, or both?
Another is environmental quality. In the short term, regulation can hurt GDP and slow growth but in the long term can increase standard of living including health.
If you want to say that other factors need a bigger say in policy decisions, then fine. But all decisions should be made based on risk.
So I was designing an alternate entrance road into a facility across a small area that was once a landfill. I received a design from a Geotechnical Engineer for that section. Let's say the cost was 10x the normal construction cost (per linear foot) in that section compared to the other parts of the road. I asked the Geotech what his confidence was of that design. He said 90%. I then asked if he reduced the design to 5x the cost what his confidence would be. He said 80%. I then asked what failure would be like. He said potholes that would have to be filled in. So I told the client that for half the cost, he would reduce the confidence from 90% to 80% and the failure in either case would be potholes. The client chose the less expensive design.
So there was significant cost savings with only little increased risk.
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kalm
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Re: The real economy...
GannonFan wrote:kalm wrote:
No. They weren’t meant to be combined.
One example of how GDP can be skewed vs. how GDP is used to influence political outcomes and hence economic policy.
But thanks for the thoughtful response.
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Re: The real economy...
The thought in my response equaled the thought that was put into starting this thread.kalm wrote:GannonFan wrote:
![]()
One example of how GDP can be skewed vs. how GDP is used to influence political outcomes and hence economic policy.
But thanks for the thoughtful response.
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- AZGrizFan
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Re: The real economy...
It's almost like you know me.Grizalltheway wrote:AZGrizFan wrote:Whatever you whiny loser, just get over it.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12

"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12

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kalm
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Re: The real economy...
Yeah...because accurate economic measurements don’t fit into a convenient box.GannonFan wrote:The thought in my response equaled the thought that was put into starting this thread.kalm wrote:
![]()
One example of how GDP can be skewed vs. how GDP is used to influence political outcomes and hence economic policy.
But thanks for the thoughtful response.
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Re: The real economy...
Ahh yes
Klam with another hammer... looking for a nail
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Klam with another hammer... looking for a nail
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"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
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kalm
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Re: The real economy...
Well I figured you’d reply like this being there’s a mention of the UN in the article.CID1990 wrote:Ahh yes
Klam with another hammer... looking for a nail
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Simple question...should natural capital and human capital be a part of the valuation?
If not, let’s plow under Yellowstone and increase the birth rate.
Last edited by kalm on Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- CID1990
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Re: The real economy...
Let’s play “guess the fallacy”kalm wrote:Well I figured you’d reply like this being there’s a mention of the UN in the article.CID1990 wrote:Ahh yes
Klam with another hammer... looking for a nail
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk![]()
Simple question...should natural capital and human capital be a part of the valuation?
If not, let’s plow under Yellowstone and increase the birthdate.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
"You however, are an insufferable ankle biting mental chihuahua..." - Clizzoris
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kalm
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Re: The real economy...
Not sure what you mean. Do go on...CID1990 wrote:Let’s play “guess the fallacy”kalm wrote:
Well I figured you’d reply like this being there’s a mention of the UN in the article.![]()
Simple question...should natural capital and human capital be a part of the valuation?
If not, let’s plow under Yellowstone and increase the birthdate.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
(Btw...it auto-corrected from birth rate to birth date)
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Re: The real economy...
Not necessarily because it increases life expectancy. People that otherwise would've died from cancer at a given points will instead persist and have to be cared for for a longer period. It'd be likely, for instance, to increase the number of people requiring long term care in nursing homes.kalm wrote:
An affordable cancer drug that is successful reduces GDP.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came

And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came

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kalm
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Re: The real economy...
Good point. Plus, if they're of working age their productivity also continues to add to GDP. On the other hand, older people in general can be less productive at certain jobs.JohnStOnge wrote:Not necessarily because it increases life expectancy. People that otherwise would've died from cancer at a given points will instead persist and have to be cared for for a longer period. It'd be likely, for instance, to increase the number of people requiring long term care in nursing homes.kalm wrote:
An affordable cancer drug that is successful reduces GDP.
This is why I find it an interesting discussion.
Thanks for a non-smarmy reply...unlike these other fucks.
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Re: The real economy...
I dunno. Like I don't know about quantifying the value of that "natural capital" thing. Here is an article on it:
https://naturalcapitalforum.com/about/
https://naturalcapitalforum.com/about/
Last edited by JohnStOnge on Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Well, I believe that I must tell the truth
And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came

And say things as they really are
But if I told the truth and nothing but the truth
Could I ever be a star?
Deep Purple: No One Came

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Ivytalk
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Re: The real economy...
This thread reminds me of the debates I’ve had with my BIL about the legal concept of materiality in financial reporting. Do you choose standard short-term quarterly financial data, or do you blend in “sustainability” measures of financial health that consider other factors like environmental and labor effects? Interesting stuff.
“I’m tired and done.” — 89Hen 3/27/22.


