Trump announces Brett Kavanaugh as his 2nd SCOTUS nominee.

[Col Hogan]

Cool, so you're on record for wanting to kill Americans because the majority want to propel the US into the 21st century while a minority desperately holds on to a 250-year old doctrine written by rich white men who barely represent the values of today's changing societies and demographics.

I guess the People - present and future - must always be governed by the past...or die.

You're not defending tyranny at all; you are the tyranny.

The real answer to this predicament is a split of the nation, not bloodshed.

No, first of all it's nowhere NEAR a "majority", and secondly, the tyranny is in attempting to overthrow this form of government and our constitution and make us Venezuela. THAT I will defend with violence. I took an oath when I was commissioned an officer in the US Navy:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States. I take that oath very seriously. And you and your ilk are dangerously close to straying into "domestic enemy" territory.

+ 1. Trip has no concept of how strong most people who have taken that oath feel about it...but then he’s never really stood up and made any sacrifices for something or someone that counts...

[93henfan]

The sensible response to major ideological differences is to split a nation, not pursue bloodshed. It would be a major moment in modern history, but splitting nations is far from unprecedented and there's no reason the United States couldn't go on that that path.

We can still work together as a powerful North American federation with a common currency and close military alliances. The only difference would be our different federal governments.

Looks like one side is going to have to do some more compromising than the other.

We shall defend our island [Delmarva], we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the slightly elevated terrain features; we shall never surrender. - 93henfan

[CAA Flagship]

Looks like one side is going to have to do some more compromising than the other.

We shall defend our island [Delmarva], we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the slightly elevated terrain features; we shall never surrender. - 93henfan

What about in the bars and taverns?

[CAA Flagship]

We shall defend our island [Delmarva], we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the slightly elevated terrain features; we shall never surrender. - 93henfan

What about in the bars and taverns?

Oh yeah, and in the stands at Eagles games.

[93henfan]

We shall defend our island [Delmarva], we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the slightly elevated terrain features; we shall never surrender. - 93henfan

What about in the bars and taverns?

Included in “beaches”.

[AZGrizFan]

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

So you take an oath that's not in the Constitution to defend the Constitution? I can make up oaths too.

George Washington would laugh his ass off at your thinking, or shake his head. Either way, the first phrase he and his forward buddies declared to King George:

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the Earth...

Nice circular logic. Yes, I took that oath--as has EVERY MILITARY OFFICER out there. And I take it seriously. And here's a newsflash: the vast majority of them do too.

And yes, that's the first line of the Declaration of Independence...where they went to A DIFFERENT CONTINENT to form their own country. Where they were already at war with their oppressors before this document was even written. You wanna take your beliefs to another continent and form your own country? Be my guest. But THIS country's foundation is the Constitution. You know, that document you hate? So, if you don't like it, go find a country that best fits your needs instead of trying to bend THIS country to your minority will...

Our form of government, with all its flaws and warts, is THE reason why America was the greatest country on the planet within 100 years of being formed. It's THE reason we kick socialist and communist ass all over the globe, economically. Capitalism is THE reason why we have the highest standard of living in the world. But if socialism is what tickles your taint, then take your ball and move to any one of a number of options out there. The vast majority of Americans are perfectly happy with our democracy.

[AZGrizFan]

No, first of all it's nowhere NEAR a "majority", and secondly, the tyranny is in attempting to overthrow this form of government and our constitution and make us Venezuela. THAT I will defend with violence. I took an oath when I was commissioned an officer in the US Navy:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States. I take that oath very seriously. And you and your ilk are dangerously close to straying into "domestic enemy" territory.

+ 1. Trip has no concept of how strong most people who have taken that oath feel about it...but then he’s never really stood up and made any sacrifices for something or someone that counts...

He left that to Colin Humperdink.

[∞∞∞]

+ 1. Trip has no concept of how strong most people who have taken that oath feel about it...but then he’s never really stood up and made any sacrifices for something or someone that counts...

So the military makes up an oath and feels strongly about it. Color me unimpressed. Like I said to AZ, the founding fathers would laugh their asses off at this oath...and "So help me God" is the final punchline in the joke.

Now go read the very FIRST sentence of the Declaration of Independence and tell me how your oath aligns with how those forward-thinking men actually thought of free-will and government.

The President is the only person that is Constitutionally required to take an oath to support the Constitution (not even defend it), and mostly for administrative functions...not this faux-patriot BS.

[89Hen]

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken."

- Col. Sanders

That may have been your quickest surrender ever!

How ripe do you like bananas? Still some green, all yellow, brown spots...?

[∞∞∞]

Nice circular logic. Yes, I took that oath--as has EVERY MILITARY OFFICER out there. And I take it seriously. And here's a newsflash: the vast majority of them do too.

And yes, that's the first line of the Declaration of Independence...where they went to A DIFFERENT CONTINENT to form their own country. Where they were already at war with their oppressors before this document was even written. You wanna take your beliefs to another continent and form your own country? Be my guest. But THIS country's foundation is the Constitution. You know, that document you hate? So, if you don't like it, go find a country that best fits your needs instead of trying to bend THIS country to your minority will...

Our form of government, with all its flaws and warts, is THE reason why America was the greatest country on the planet within 100 years of being formed. It's THE reason we kick socialist and communist ass all over the globe, economically. Capitalism is THE reason why we have the highest standard of living in the world. But if socialism is what tickles your taint, then take your ball and move to any one of a number of options out there. The vast majority of Americans are perfectly happy with our democracy.

Alright then, come kill me. I'm a domestic enemy of the state in your eyes.

God some of you need a lesson on the founding fathers and their philosophical views of life.

[89Hen]

I'm starting to wonder if Trip's account was hijacked by Razor Ramon, the original ODU crazy.

[89Hen]

Alright then, come kill me. I'm a domestic enemy of the state in your eyes.

You're the only one here extolling violence.

[∞∞∞]

Alright then, come kill me. I'm a domestic enemy of the state in your eyes.

You're the only one here extolling violence.

Yes, I've been the one foaming at the mouth to kill Americans.

Also Razor was very conservative (at least during his CAAzone days).

[89Hen]

You're the only one here extolling violence.

Yes, I've been the one foaming at the mouth to kill Americans.

Nobody has, but you've come the closest on the board.

[GannonFan]

+ 1. Trip has no concept of how strong most people who have taken that oath feel about it...but then he’s never really stood up and made any sacrifices for something or someone that counts...

So the military makes up an oath and feels strongly about it. Color me unimpressed. Like I said to AZ, the founding fathers would laugh their asses off at this oath...and "So help me God" is the final punchline in the joke.

Now go read the very FIRST sentence of the Declaration of Independence and tell me how your oath aligns with how those forward-thinking men actually thought of free-will and government.

The President is the only person that is Constitutionally required to take an oath to support the Constitution (not even defend it), and mostly for administrative functions...not this faux-patriot BS.

What are you even arguing here? You're so frothing at the mouth that you're descending into babble. There's plenty of references in the DOI to a God figure (Nature's God, Creator, Supreme Judge of the World, etc). Were they just put in for comical relief, as you're implying? And the end of the DOI is pretty good stuff too - " And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor." Very oathy, those Founding Fathers.

[∞∞∞]

Yes, I've been the one foaming at the mouth to kill Americans.

Nobody has, but you've come the closest on the board.

I've been raised to understand the significance of human life - that we all get ONE on Earth and nothing else. As an atheist, it also carries particularly meaning to me. When someone like AZ says that he'd kill for the Constitution, he doesn't realize he's taking away life...a being that loves and fears and laughs and cries...for something that's nothing more than an administrative item.

The Constitution is a document on how to run a government. Capitalism is a policy on how to run an economy. Both are useful, but replaceable items compared to the grand philosophical concepts on which this great nation is founded on. Those concepts - life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness - are the ideas that the founding fathers defended and are still worth defending. Everything else is secondary.

[AZGrizFan]

Nice circular logic. Yes, I took that oath--as has EVERY MILITARY OFFICER out there. And I take it seriously. And here's a newsflash: the vast majority of them do too.

And yes, that's the first line of the Declaration of Independence...where they went to A DIFFERENT CONTINENT to form their own country. Where they were already at war with their oppressors before this document was even written. You wanna take your beliefs to another continent and form your own country? Be my guest. But THIS country's foundation is the Constitution. You know, that document you hate? So, if you don't like it, go find a country that best fits your needs instead of trying to bend THIS country to your minority will...

Our form of government, with all its flaws and warts, is THE reason why America was the greatest country on the planet within 100 years of being formed. It's THE reason we kick socialist and communist ass all over the globe, economically. Capitalism is THE reason why we have the highest standard of living in the world. But if socialism is what tickles your taint, then take your ball and move to any one of a number of options out there. The vast majority of Americans are perfectly happy with our democracy.

Alright then, come kill me. I'm a domestic enemy of the state in your eyes.

God some of you need a lesson on the founding fathers and their philosophical views of life.

No, you're a domestic enemy to the freedoms I enjoy under our current form of government. Freedoms which you'd gladly see eroded in your efforts to bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator. That just won't work for me.

[89Hen]

Nobody has, but you've come the closest on the board.

I've been raised to understand the significance of human life - that we all get ONE on Earth and nothing else. As an atheist, it also carries particularly meaning to me. When someone like AZ says that he'd kill for the Constitution, he doesn't realize he's taking away life...a being that loves and fears and laughs and cries...for something that's nothing more than an administrative item.

The Constitution is a document on how to run a government. Capitalism is a policy on how to run an economy. Both are useful, but replaceable items compared to the grand philosophical concepts on which this great nation is founded on. Those concepts - life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness - are the ideas that the founding fathers defended and are still worth defending. Everything else is secondary.

You have the right to believe that, but I believe you are wrong. If you want a socialist government with no constitution, go for it. That doesn't make you progressive.

I do find the bolded part odd. Is the Constitution not the document that defines the "grand philosophical concepts on which this great nation is founded on"?

[AZGrizFan]

Nobody has, but you've come the closest on the board.

I've been raised to understand the significance of human life - that we all get ONE on Earth and nothing else. As an atheist, it also carries particularly meaning to me. When someone like AZ says that he'd kill for the Constitution, he doesn't realize he's taking away life...a being that loves and fears and laughs and cries...for something that's nothing more than an administrative item.

The Constitution is a document on how to run a government. Capitalism is a policy on how to run an economy. Both are useful, but replaceable items compared to the grand philosophical concepts on which this great nation is founded on. Those concepts - life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness - are the ideas that the founding fathers defended and are still worth defending. Everything else is secondary.

a) You've obviously been raised to understand only the value of a human life that thinks and believes lockstep with you. All others you want to harass and "feel afraid" in America and understand how much they're hated.

2) If you don't think I understand what killing is, you're just stupid. But yes, I'd gladly kill if I felt it was helping to avert something that threatened my way of life.

iii) And those same founding fathers felt that the form of government outlined in the Constitution was the one best suited to best achieve those grand philosophical concepts--and they were 100% correct. And in almost 250 years, so little has changed about their incredible foresight that just it's been altered just 27 times (and none since 1992). But it HAS changed...hell, it's changed 4 times just in my relatively short lifetime. So, YOUR proposal akin to throwing out the baby with the bath water is completely unnecessary. There exists within the document itself a mechanism for updating it. If you don't like the document, work to change it. I don't hate any Americans, but if you and others like you continue attempting to tear it up and start over, that's where you're going to have trouble.

[∞∞∞]

AZ - I actually sit here and feel bad for you, although I know you don't care for my pity.

It's just that you live by an oath, yet the same oath would be swept aside by the courts if you went through with your suggestions. And the Constitution your oath so vigorously defends does not care to defend you in the same way; in fact it would be kinder to the other party.

I don't disagree that the Constitution is a mean to the goal, but we can differ on the means without differing on the goal. That shared goal - not the means - is what makes us both Americans.

[Col Hogan]

AZ - I actually sit here and feel bad for you, although I know you don't care for my pity.

It's just that you live by an oath, yet the same oath would be swept aside by the courts if you went through with your suggestions. And the Constitution your oath so vigorously defends does not care to defend you in the same way; in fact it would be kinder to the other party.

I don't disagree that the Constitution is a mean to the goal, but we can differ on the means without differing on the goal. That shared goal - not the means - is what makes us both Americans.

The hippies of the 60’s and “progressives” of today have a lot in common...including a propensity for violence against the power structure...

I predict they will also have another thing in common in the future...they will have some minor successes but ultimately fail at their grand design to change society...

[UNI88]

Nobody has, but you've come the closest on the board.

I've been raised to understand the significance of human life - that we all get ONE on Earth and nothing else. As an atheist, it also carries particularly meaning to me. When someone like AZ says that he'd kill for the Constitution, he doesn't realize he's taking away life...a being that loves and fears and laughs and cries...for something that's nothing more than an administrative item.

The Constitution is a document on how to run a government. Capitalism is a policy on how to run an economy. Both are useful, but replaceable items compared to the grand philosophical concepts on which this great nation is founded on. Those concepts - life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness - are the ideas that the founding fathers defended and are still worth defending. Everything else is secondary.

Trip, it's ironic that you say that AZ "doesn't realize he's taking away life...a being that loves and fears and laughs and cries" when he defends the constitution but you see absolutely no problem with abortion. There are many that feel that abortion is "taking away life...a being that will love and fear and laugh and cry." You think they oppose abortion because they're male chauvinists and refuse to consider that maybe they think an unborn life is a life worth saving.

The Constitution isn't just a document on how to run the government. It's the framework on which the government is built and which makes possible the grand philosophical concepts of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Take away the constitution and the risk of sliding down a slippery slope increases exponentially. We were able to build this great country because of the founding fathers' foresight and I trust their vision much more than I do any of today's so called political leaders.

The problem today isn't that conservatives are afraid of change, it's that both extremes refuse to listen to, consider and respect the other sides perspective. A true progressive has an open mind and considers other points of view. Do you fit within that definition of progressive? If you really want to change things for the better than open your mind to other perspectives.

[AZGrizFan]

AZ - I actually sit here and feel bad for you, although I know you don't care for my pity.

It's just that you live by an oath, yet the same oath would be swept aside by the courts if you went through with your suggestions. And the Constitution your oath so vigorously defends does not care to defend you in the same way; in fact it would be kinder to the other party.

I don't disagree that the Constitution is a mean to the goal, but we can differ on the means without differing on the goal. That shared goal - not the means - is what makes us both Americans.

Yeah, don’t weep for me. I am doing just fine, and sleep very very well at night.

Trip, you live in the greatest country on the planet, a country that has given you (a minority and first generation American?) a broad array of opportunities that (based on what you’ve posted) you’ve been able to take full advantage of to advance yourself in your education and your life. And yet you singleminded want to tear down that very country, driven by some misguided and misplaced “empathy” for some mysterious group who, were they in literally ANY OTHER COUNTRY would be significantly worse off. You have a misplaced need for a “level playing field” when no structure, anywhere, will provide that.

We differ on the goal AND the means, trip.

Means: I believe it’s perfectly acceptable to promote and affect change to the existing Constitution through established means. We’ve been through that argument ad nauseum. I do NOT believe it’s ok to promote what would amount to anarchy: the disposal of the constitution altogether and the dismissal of the constitution as a mere “tool” for outlining the operating of government. That may be true of most constitutions, in countries where anarchy and war are commonplace, but OUR founding fathers actually hit a home run and got it right. We live in the richest, most powerful country on earth, the envy of every other country (that’s why they flock here), with the richest poor, the richest rich, etc. etc. Are we prefect? No...is the document perfect? No...But to view that document as a mere tool is to do it (and America) a huge disservice.

Goal: I want limited, smaller government, out of our hair. I want limited, safety net social programs, not the myriad money sucking, economy-killing, initiative-limiting programs that we continue to add to on an almost daily basis. I want a government that provides for our defense, builds nice roads and infrastructure, has limited laws that impinge on capitalism, and generally just get the fuck out of the way. I believe in live and let live. Sleep with who you want. Marry who you want. Abort a child if you want. Do drugs if you want. As long as your decisions don’t affect ME, I couldnt’ care less. What I will NOT tolerate is some marginal fringe group trying to push THEIR agenda on me, and making broad generalizing statements like “the vast majority of Americans agree with me” in an effort to push that agenda.

I operate under the assumption that the ANTIFA-like troublemakers of today (include yourself with them at your peril), or some group similar to that will be the domestic enemies we may at some point be called upon to defend our way of life against—and I’ll have zero problem pulling the trigger in that scenario. Zero. Zip. Zilch. Nada. And if it ever comes to that (and I hope it doesn’t and don’t believe it will), honestly I’m not sure I’ll care how it’s viewed at the time. I’m sure there were lots of people in WWII Germany who later wished they’d put up more of a fight against the facism promoted by early Nazi Germany (and yes, that’s how I view the views of the alt left...just as dangerous). And please don’t go off on how Trump is just like Hitler, because OUR system does have checks and balances to prevent exactly that scenario.

[css75]

Question: I have heard civil war mentioned a few times on this board, and I do think it is possible in the future. How would the sides line up? By state, both sides are in all 50 so, no. By race, there are conservatives and libs in all races, By economic status, both libs and conservatives in all economic brackets. Because of this, a lot more fracturing needs to be done for it to erupt on a major scale,imho.


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[css75]

Trip, I have to know just exactly what has Trump and the GOP done to you on an personal level?


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