Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

[Ibanez]

Of course it's an act of war if we decide it is. The problem is that we decide these things on a case by case basis and have no defining criteria.

I'd say the election process is critical infrastructure. An attack on that should be considered an act of war.

There's no world wide definition or international convention that has defined it is there?

Under the standard defintion of an act of war its easy. Troops/tanks/planes from country A invade country B, or missiles from country A are shot at at/into country B. Simple- acts of war, game on.

But the whole cyber thing seems murky as hell. And would be easy to fake, or mistake, no?. Country A could accuse country B of conducting a cyber act of war when country B didn't have anything to do with it. Maybe it was a rogue group operating within country B, or a group operating in country C that wade it look like country B was responsible for cyber attacking country A.
Or country A could falsely blame country B for committing a cyber act of war, by having a cyber attack conducted on itself from within country B, as a pre text for country A attacking country B conventionally. Kind of like how Hitler staged a fake military attack on a German border installation from Poland as a pre text for invading Poland..

You got it.

I deal in cyber security threats everyday, mostly insider but a few hactivist and other bad actors. The very first thing you do, if you're any good, is hide your footprint. Or falsify it.

Let's take this real life scenario for example:

Intelligence says that hackers in Vietnam are responsible for the theft of millions of American IDs, account numbers, PII, etc...

Is Vietnam responsible?

Spoiler: show

No. Vietnam is the patsy. The most likely attacker is from North Korea. But you still can't definitely prove it. We suspect NK due to past experiences

Russia doesn't really hack from within Russia. They do a lot of their hacking in Ukraine.

[BDKJMU]

A frat brother of mine worked for them for years out in San Diego. I guess there was/is a SPAWAR Pacific..

Ok, I know, cool story...

SPAWAR Pacific isn't as laid back as SPAWAR Atlantic.

Ironically this guy is a laid back surfer type originally from San Diego. Had to get off the pot when he worked there I'm sure, back in the 2000s.

[Skjellyfetti]

Russia doesn't really hack from within Russia. They do a lot of their hacking in Ukraine.

They did this from inside Russia.

They bought servers in the US and elsewhere to try to mask it. But, it was GRU officers in Moscow

Especially since you work in cybersecurity or something related - you really should read the indictment. I think you'd find it fascinating

https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/s ... ctment.pdf

[css75]

I wonder what China is going to do with several million people’s info. My guess is they hold it for a few years before they do whatever it is they intend to do. Hopefully I have things in place.

[Ibanez]

Russia doesn't really hack from within Russia. They do a lot of their hacking in Ukraine.

They did this from inside Russia.

They bought servers in the US and elsewhere to try to mask it. But, it was GRU officers in Moscow

Especially since you work in cybersecurity or something related - you really should read the indictment. I think you'd find it fascinating

https://d3i6fh83elv35t.cloudfront.net/s ... ctment.pdf

I haven't read the indictment yet.

I should've been more clear in my statement. Of course hacking occurs within Russia. All I know is what I deal/dealt with, which is that most of our Russian threats actually originate from the Ukraine. It's not just a road apple these days.

And I use the word "threat" intentionally. It's been years since we've had a successful attack from them.

[Ibanez]

I wonder what China is going to do with several million people’s info. My guess is they hold it for a few years before they do whatever it is they intend to do. Hopefully I have things in place.

They'll sell the info on the dark web.

[HI54UNI]

Seems like we've got a whole new crop of neocons that want a war with Russia.

[Chizzang]

Seems like we've got a whole new crop of neocons that want a war with Russia.

When did we stop being at war with Russia..?

[Ibanez]

So i've began skimming the indictment.

Seriously...this is InfoSec 101.

1. Do NOT open emails from senders you don't know
2. Do NOT open links in emails from people you don't know
3. Review email addresses and names before opening any emails or links

Jesus...the DNC, DCCC and HRC campaign fell victim to basic hacks (phishing, spoofing, etc...)

The keyloggers, while not exactly high tech (anyone on this board can install one) takes some knowledge.

Very interesting.

[HI54UNI]

Seems like we've got a whole new crop of neocons that want a war with Russia.

When did we stop being at war with Russia..?

I thought we became friends in 1996 when we meddled in their election.

http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/ar ... 15_400.jpg

[Skjellyfetti]

I don't know where to put this... in a gun thread, or in this thread?

I guess since we've walked away from collusion, this can go here... since it's Russians.

From NPR with their own little nothingburger:

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/11/60153430 ... um=twitter

So a few Russians are NRA members.. paying dues.. some of them were Americans living in Russia

Why in the world would this be a story to NPR? Somebody help me out. Why the interest in Russian members of the NRA? Did they check to see how many Brits or Aussies are members of the NRA? Now THAT would be interesting.

The Butina indictment is a pretty juicy nothingburger.

Much more will be coming from this story.

[89Hen]

Much more will be coming from this story.

About 113 pages?

[Skjellyfetti]

About 113 more patties on the nothingburger

[CID1990]

Why didn't you get free screening? I did- my info was in the OPM hack. They knew exactly whose info was accessed


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[CID1990]

I don't know where to put this... in a gun thread, or in this thread?

I guess since we've walked away from collusion, this can go here... since it's Russians.

From NPR with their own little nothingburger:

https://www.npr.org/2018/04/11/60153430 ... um=twitter

So a few Russians are NRA members.. paying dues.. some of them were Americans living in Russia

Why in the world would this be a story to NPR? Somebody help me out. Why the interest in Russian members of the NRA? Did they check to see how many Brits or Aussies are members of the NRA? Now THAT would be interesting.

The Butina indictment is a pretty juicy nothingburger.

Much more will be coming from this story.

Sweet! More kindling for this thread about everything except Trump campaign collusion

given your excitem... er .. casual interest in this whole thing, I'm sure there WILL be more coming

maybe next we'll find out she once applied to Trump University


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[css75]

Why didn't you get free screening? I did- my info was in the OPM hack. They knew exactly whose info was accessed


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I could have gotten it, but it is s only for 2-3 years, China won’t utilize the info probably for another 5. I just went ahead and got Lifelock.


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[Skjellyfetti]

Sweet! More kindling for this thread about everything except Trump campaign collusion

given your excitem... er .. casual interest in this whole thing, I'm sure there WILL be more coming

I never said casual interest.

And, yeah. I think the Torshin/Butina nexus ends up touching the Trump campaign. Don Jr. in particular.

[Ibanez]

Why didn't you get free screening? I did- my info was in the OPM hack. They knew exactly whose info was accessed


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I might’ve received screening but certainly not monitoring.

Speaking of- just had another fraudulent account hit my credit. A $2800 collection from Verizon. This is the 2nd one this year. Sadly, I’m a pro at dealing with it.


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[JohnStOnge]

Sweet! More kindling for this thread about everything except Trump campaign collusion

given your excitem... er .. casual interest in this whole thing, I'm sure there WILL be more coming

maybe next we'll find out she once applied to Trump University

To me it's already obvious from what's in the public record that there were people in the Trump campaign who were very willing to cooperate with anybody including the Russian government to get "opposition research" on Clinton and/or the Democratic Party. It's already obvious that they at least attempted to do it. I have no idea as to what would be considered illegal on the "collusion" front. But I don't think any reasonable person would be shocked if the Special Counsel ends up saying there was "collusion" of some sort involving people affiliated with the Trump campaign.

[CID1990]

Sweet! More kindling for this thread about everything except Trump campaign collusion

given your excitem... er .. casual interest in this whole thing, I'm sure there WILL be more coming

maybe next we'll find out she once applied to Trump University

To me it's already obvious from what's in the public record that there were people in the Trump campaign who were very willing to cooperate with anybody including the Russian government to get "opposition research" on Clinton and/or the Democratic Party. It's already obvious that they at least attempted to do it. I have no idea as to what would be considered illegal on the "collusion" front. But I don't think any reasonable person would be shocked if the Special Counsel ends up saying there was "collusion" of some sort involving people affiliated with the Trump campaign.

You mean getting dirt on political foes from foreign actors? Would that be collusion in your mind?

I think you had better hope that's not the definition - and it is doubtful Mueller will use that definition, either .... but if he does it will be a rebuke to more than just the Trump camp.

[CID1990]

Sweet! More kindling for this thread about everything except Trump campaign collusion

given your excitem... er .. casual interest in this whole thing, I'm sure there WILL be more coming

I never said casual interest.

And, yeah. I think the Torshin/Butina nexus ends up touching the Trump campaign. Don Jr. in particular.

Cool!

I can't wait to see how they conspired to throw the election.

[css75]

Why didn't you get free screening? I did- my info was in the OPM hack. They knew exactly whose info was accessed


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I might’ve received screening but certainly not monitoring.

Speaking of- just had another fraudulent account hit my credit. A $2800 collection from Verizon. This is the 2nd one this year. Sadly, I’m a pro at dealing with it.


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Just curious, do you do a lot of online financial things?


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[Ibanez]

I might’ve received screening but certainly not monitoring.

Speaking of- just had another fraudulent account hit my credit. A $2800 collection from Verizon. This is the 2nd one this year. Sadly, I’m a pro at dealing with it.


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Just curious, do you do a lot of online financial things?


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Online bill pay? Buy from Amazon or eBay? PayPal/Venmo?

Yup. But it’s not the finances that get stolen. I haven’t had a debit or credit card stolen in 8 or 9 years. People have taken all my PII, have a fake DL made and used that to buy stuff in stores.




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[houndawg]

There's no world wide definition or international convention that has defined it is there?

Under the standard defintion of an act of war its easy. Troops/tanks/planes from country A invade country B, or missiles from country A are shot at at/into country B. Simple- acts of war, game on.

But the whole cyber thing seems murky as hell. And would be easy to fake, or mistake, no?. Country A could accuse country B of conducting a cyber act of war when country B didn't have anything to do with it. Maybe it was a rogue group operating within country B, or a group operating in country C that wade it look like country B was responsible for cyber attacking country A.
Or country A could falsely blame country B for committing a cyber act of war, by having a cyber attack conducted on itself from within country B, as a pre text for country A attacking country B conventionally. Kind of like how Hitler staged a fake military attack on a German border installation from Poland as a pre text for invading Poland..

You got it.

I deal in cyber security threats everyday, mostly insider but a few hactivist and other bad actors. The very first thing you do, if you're any good, is hide your footprint. Or falsify it.

Let's take this real life scenario for example:

Intelligence says that hackers in Vietnam are responsible for the theft of millions of American IDs, account numbers, PII, etc...

Is Vietnam responsible?

Spoiler: show

No. Vietnam is the patsy. The most likely attacker is from North Korea. But you still can't definitely prove it. We suspect NK due to past experiences

Russia doesn't really hack from within Russia. They do a lot of their hacking in Ukraine.

Mueller's indictments mentioned the addresses of where the hacking came from, no?

[Ibanez]

You got it.

I deal in cyber security threats everyday, mostly insider but a few hactivist and other bad actors. The very first thing you do, if you're any good, is hide your footprint. Or falsify it.

Let's take this real life scenario for example:

Intelligence says that hackers in Vietnam are responsible for the theft of millions of American IDs, account numbers, PII, etc...

Is Vietnam responsible?

Spoiler: show

No. Vietnam is the patsy. The most likely attacker is from North Korea. But you still can't definitely prove it. We suspect NK due to past experiences

Russia doesn't really hack from within Russia. They do a lot of their hacking in Ukraine.

Mueller's indictments mentioned the addresses of where the hacking came from, no?

I hadn’t read it. But also, as I explained, in my space it almost never occurs inside Russia.



Btw, caught a threat today. Originated outside of Kiev.


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