So, the abortion issue is now back in the limelight...

[dbackjon]

Also:

According to U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data from 2012, 65.8 percent of abortions took place within the first eight weeks of pregnancy, and 91.4 percent occurred within the first 13 weeks. Just 7.2 percent of abortions were performed between 14 and 20 weeks gestation, which means just 1.3 percent of abortions took place at or after 21 weeks pregnancy. And, from 2003 through 2012, the CDC saw a significant shift toward earlier abortions, with the percentage occuring within the first six weeks up 24 percent during the study period. The percentage of abortions occurring at or after 13 weeks, meanwhile, remained relatively consistently throughout the study period and never rose above 9 percent.

[93henfan]

I don't think there is any genuine doubt that a human life is present at conception. If you asked 100 bioethicists when a human life starts, either 99 or 100 would answer at conception. This is an accepted scientific fact.

This presents two issues: (i) what legal rights does a human life possess at the moment of conception?; and (ii) what are our moral obligations to a human life? Because there is no public consensus as to the second issue, we cannot reach a public consensus on the first.

I am pro-life, but I don't think it makes sense to say "abortion is murder." "Murder" is an intentional taking of a human life. People involved in an abortion do not intend to take a human life. They do not see the life at issue as a human life entitled to the protection of law. If they did, they would not undertake the abortion act. Even when abortion was outlawed across the US, and deemed a felony, there was not a single jurisdiction in the US that treated abortion as "murder." To say "abortion is murder," I think, does more harm to the pre-life cause than advances the cause.

Abortion, however, does present very grave moral consequences. I think the pro-life movement can change more hearts, and prevent more abortions, by emphasizing the sanctity of life and the grave moral consequences of abortion. I think the anti-abortion fight, to be successful, has to be waged on a heart-by-heart and case-by-case basis. We will never outlaw abortion throughout the US, though.

I was waiting for you to pop up out of your hole, since somebody beamed up the Catholic signal.

And I must say, surprisingly, that's a great post, Joe. I was expecting a more dogmatic answer.

[CID1990]

Until we had a constitutional amendment outlawing it.
You want abortion to be constitutional? Have a constitutional amendment stating so. Otherwise, as the 10th Amendment states:
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people>"

Sometimes, the states don't make the right decision and need a central government to step in when the public health and safety is at risk.

There's a much greater history of the central government making those bad decisions

usually because someone in South Florida knows what's good for someone else in Wyoming



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[Silenoz]

Could be worse. She could be dead.

Well I'm going to ruin this young woman's life, but hey, at least she's not dead...

...the hell is wrong with some of you people? Sympathy lacking much?

And like I said, I'd love to hear from the ladies close to you.

No, as in she could be dead like her kid.

You are definitely right about the lack of sympathy present...

And I already told you what the ladies in my life think. Try again.

[∞∞∞]

And I already told you what the ladies in my life think. Try again.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize you speak on the behalf of the ladies in your life.

[93henfan]

And I already told you what the ladies in my life think. Try again.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize you speak on the behalf of the ladies in your life.

What do the Magic the Gathering players in your life think about abortion?

[∞∞∞]

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize you speak on the behalf of the ladies in your life.

What do the Magic the Gathering players in your life think about abortion?

We have 25 person orgies together, unprotected of course, just so the one woman and one varioriented human there can have abortions for fun.

[93henfan]

What do the Magic the Gathering players in your life think about abortion?

We have 25 person orgies together, unprotected of course, just so the one woman and one varioriented human there can have abortions for fun.

I fucking knew it!

[Silenoz]

And I already told you what the ladies in my life think. Try again.

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realize you speak on the behalf of the ladies in your life.

Ok, brb, getting them to register on CS real fast

Keep grasping

[JoltinJoe]

I don't think there is any genuine doubt that a human life is present at conception. If you asked 100 bioethicists when a human life starts, either 99 or 100 would answer at conception. This is an accepted scientific fact.

This presents two issues: (i) what legal rights does a human life possess at the moment of conception?; and (ii) what are our moral obligations to a human life? Because there is no public consensus as to the second issue, we cannot reach a public consensus on the first.

I am pro-life, but I don't think it makes sense to say "abortion is murder." "Murder" is an intentional taking of a human life. People involved in an abortion do not intend to take a human life. They do not see the life at issue as a human life entitled to the protection of law. If they did, they would not undertake the abortion act. Even when abortion was outlawed across the US, and deemed a felony, there was not a single jurisdiction in the US that treated abortion as "murder." To say "abortion is murder," I think, does more harm to the pre-life cause than advances the cause.

Abortion, however, does present very grave moral consequences. I think the pro-life movement can change more hearts, and prevent more abortions, by emphasizing the sanctity of life and the grave moral consequences of abortion. I think the anti-abortion fight, to be successful, has to be waged on a heart-by-heart and case-by-case basis. We will never outlaw abortion throughout the US, though.

I was waiting for you to pop up out of your hole, since somebody beamed up the Catholic signal.

And I must say, surprisingly, that's a great post, Joe. I was expecting a more dogmatic answer.

It is interesting that since Catholic organizations got out of the business of trying to influence legislation, and turned their resources to the operation of outreach programs and pregnancy crisis centers, attitudes toward abortion have shifted in this country.

In polls, more than 50% of the population, when asked to self-identify as "pro-life" or "pro-choice," choose "pro-life," and that was certainly not true 15 or 20 years ago.

The age demographic that self-identifies as "pro-life" by the most significant margin? Those who are 18 to 35!

Pro-choice advocates point out that 67% of those asked "support" Roe v, Wade. But when you ask people, "do you support that a state must allow abortion on demand, without any restriction, for the first 24 weeks of pregnancy" -- the actual holding of Roe v. Wade -- less than 25% respond favorably. So, in other words, people "support" Roe v. Wade because they have been misled about what that decision really means.

Abortion rates continue to drop and have reached historic lows in the post-Roe era. (This is the most important "poll").

More than 50% of the population favor legislation that would restrict Medicare reimbursements to organizations that perform abortions.

These are all very positive developments.

Abortion may be legal, but that doesn't mean we have to support it. Our side is winning in the hearts of the people, and we will continue to win as long as we continue to make the more rational and better arguments (and yelling "murderers" is the kind of overkill that causes people to stop listening).

[CID1990]

Hey now that we solved God in the God threads I thought I'd stick my head back in here

Have we solved abortion yet?


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[kalm]

I don't think there is any genuine doubt that a human life is present at conception. If you asked 100 bioethicists when a human life starts, either 99 or 100 would answer at conception. This is an accepted scientific fact.

This presents two issues: (i) what legal rights does a human life possess at the moment of conception?; and (ii) what are our moral obligations to a human life? Because there is no public consensus as to the second issue, we cannot reach a public consensus on the first.

I am pro-life, but I don't think it makes sense to say "abortion is murder." "Murder" is an intentional taking of a human life. People involved in an abortion do not intend to take a human life. They do not see the life at issue as a human life entitled to the protection of law. If they did, they would not undertake the abortion act. Even when abortion was outlawed across the US, and deemed a felony, there was not a single jurisdiction in the US that treated abortion as "murder." To say "abortion is murder," I think, does more harm to the pro-life cause than advances the cause.

Abortion, however, does present very grave moral consequences. I think the pro-life movement can change more hearts, and prevent more abortions, by emphasizing the sanctity of life and the grave moral consequences of abortion. I think the anti-abortion fight, to be successful, has to be waged on a heart-by-heart and case-by-case basis. We will never outlaw abortion throughout the US, though.

When does conception begin?

[Pwns]

Any women want to input thoughts into this thread?

Maybe some of your daughters?

I don't do the "truth is relative to your gender" thing.

2+2=4 no matter what sex organs you have.

[dbackjon]

We have 25 person orgies together, unprotected of course, just so the one woman and one varioriented human there can have abortions for fun.

I fucking knew it!

That's "The Gathering" part of the game

[Ibanez]

What do the Magic the Gathering players in your life think about abortion?

We have 25 person orgies together, unprotected of course, just so the one woman and one varioriented human there can have abortions for fun.

What the hell is a “varioriented human”??


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[kalm]

I fucking knew it!

That's "The Gathering" part of the game

Well played D, well played.

[Ibanez]

I don't think there is any genuine doubt that a human life is present at conception. If you asked 100 bioethicists when a human life starts, either 99 or 100 would answer at conception. This is an accepted scientific fact.

This presents two issues: (i) what legal rights does a human life possess at the moment of conception?; and (ii) what are our moral obligations to a human life? Because there is no public consensus as to the second issue, we cannot reach a public consensus on the first.

I am pro-life, but I don't think it makes sense to say "abortion is murder." "Murder" is an intentional taking of a human life. People involved in an abortion do not intend to take a human life. They do not see the life at issue as a human life entitled to the protection of law. If they did, they would not undertake the abortion act. Even when abortion was outlawed across the US, and deemed a felony, there was not a single jurisdiction in the US that treated abortion as "murder." To say "abortion is murder," I think, does more harm to the pro-life cause than advances the cause.

Abortion, however, does present very grave moral consequences. I think the pro-life movement can change more hearts, and prevent more abortions, by emphasizing the sanctity of life and the grave moral consequences of abortion. I think the anti-abortion fight, to be successful, has to be waged on a heart-by-heart and case-by-case basis. We will never outlaw abortion throughout the US, though.

When does conception begin?

When one cell becomes two?


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[kalm]

When does conception begin?

When one cell becomes two?


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I don’t know. Honest question.

If that’s the answer, when exactly does that occur?

[Ivytalk]

When does conception begin?

When one cell becomes two?


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Mitosis.....

[kalm]

When one cell becomes two?


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Mitosis.....

Yourtoesiswhat?

[BDKJMU]

Wow, this thread was just started yesterday afternoon, was at 80 some posts about 4+ hours ago when I was last on here, and now is at 170. I'm not going back to read the last 90 or so posts. What did I miss?

[CID1990]

Wow, this thread was just started yesterday afternoon, was at 80 some posts about 4+ hours ago when I was last on here, and now is at 170. I'm not going back to read the last 90 or so posts. What did I miss?

We solved abortion.

[kalm]

Wow, this thread was just started yesterday afternoon, was at 80 some posts about 4+ hours ago when I was last on here, and now is at 170. I'm not going back to read the last 90 or so posts. What did I miss?

We solved abortion.

This!

Nice work everybody!

[Ivytalk]

And Our Man from the Vatican, Father Guido JoltinJoe, will now crawl back under the covers for another six months.

[UNI88]

When one cell becomes two?


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Mitosis.....

Beats halitosis.