Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

[kalm]

Dammit Cid. It will come as no surprise that I didn't take logic at the Harvard of the Palouse and everytime you post a latin phrase, I assume it has something to do with logic as I didn't take latin either. So then I have to look up what it means to confirm my suspicions.

In all honesty, this was a serious question and I think your answer contradicts your initial point. I'm sure there's a latin term for that reply as well but all I keep coming up with when you try and prove your logic based intellect is...

Actually your "innocent" questions fit in another category as well


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Cool!

[SDHornet]

Good going GF, you likely just chased away jellybean for another week or two by calling out his nonsense on this new Russian Scare...now where the hell am I going to get my political entertainment?!?!?!

How did your memo that was going to end the Mueller investigation go? I think the only news from it was that the FISA warrant on Carter Page was renewed under Trump's Justice Department and signed off by two Trump appointees. I guess Mueller will be closing up shop any day now.

I said that? Link.

Thought I'd drop in and see all the Trump Russia collusion charges brought up this past week...oh look, still nothing.

[Skjellyfetti]

Oh, and there's this gem today:

A review of a classified document outlining what is described as extensive Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act abuse was made available to all House members Thursday and the revelations could lead to the removal of senior officials in the FBI and Department of Justice, several sources with knowledge of the document stated. These sources say the report is “explosive,” stating they would not be surprised if it leads to the end of Robert Mueller’s Special Counsel investigation into President Trump and his associates.

Let's see how long before someone leaks the document to the Wiki...

[SDHornet]

Oh, and there's this gem today:



Let's see how long before someone leaks the document to the Wiki...

Dead link.

[Skjellyfetti]

Putting aside the collusion/nothingburger arguments for a sec...

This speaks to the normalization or downplaying of the facts that we do know. Russia is waging an informational and cyber war against us. We can't dismiss it: "Oh. We fuck with other countries' shit. Meh"... "Red Scare!!" etc. Yeah, we fuck with other countries' shit. And, the other countries would be well within their rights to prevent us or counteract it. And, they'd be stupid not to. Seems we're too stupid not to. Why?

Rogers nails it here.

My concern is that I believe President Putin has come to the conclusion that there's little price to pay here, and that, therefore, "I can continue this activity." Everything I see here, both from the NSA side and the Cyber Command side, leads me to believe that if we don't do something here then this will continue. And, 2016 won't be viewed as something isolated.

Deep State Obama appointee.

[GannonFan]

Putting aside the collusion/nothingburger arguments for a sec...

This speaks to the normalization or downplaying of the facts that we do know. Russia is waging an informational and cyber war against us. We can't dismiss it: "Oh. We **** with other countries' ****. Meh"... "Red Scare!!" etc. Yeah, we **** with other countries' ****. And, the other countries would be well within their rights to prevent us or counteract it. And, they'd be stupid not to. Seems we're too stupid not to. Why?

Rogers nails it here.

My concern is that I believe President Putin has come to the conclusion that there's little price to pay here, and that, therefore, "I can continue this activity." Everything I see here, both from the NSA side and the Cyber Command side, leads me to believe that if we don't do something here then this will continue. And, 2016 won't be viewed as something isolated.

Deep State Obama appointee.

But what's never been denied is that Russia, and the Soviet Union before them, have always been doing this form of propaganda war, for decades. They didn't just start in 2014, it's been going on for ages. It's what nation states do, both to their adversaries as well as their friends. Sure, Russia was more active or visible this time in terms of modern social media platforms, but in the end they were just following the tide of what was already a polarized and distrusting electorate. Russia gets way too much credit for a crisis in confidence in government that we ourselves pretty much fully created. Blaming Russia, to any great extent, for our political environment is just ignoring the last 20-25 years of US history. That's why it's a Red Scare, and it is, because people, you included, are placing inordinately way too much emphasis on Russia and their role in impacting our political and civil atmosphere.

[JohnStOnge]

Putting aside the collusion/nothingburger arguments for a sec...

This speaks to the normalization or downplaying of the facts that we do know. Russia is waging an informational and cyber war against us. We can't dismiss it: "Oh. We **** with other countries' ****. Meh"... "Red Scare!!" etc. Yeah, we **** with other countries' ****. And, the other countries would be well within their rights to prevent us or counteract it. And, they'd be stupid not to. Seems we're too stupid not to. Why?

Rogers nails it here.



Deep State Obama appointee.

But what's never been denied is that Russia, and the Soviet Union before them, have always been doing this form of propaganda war, for decades. They didn't just start in 2014, it's been going on for ages. It's what nation states do, both to their adversaries as well as their friends. Sure, Russia was more active or visible this time in terms of modern social media platforms, but in the end they were just following the tide of what was already a polarized and distrusting electorate. Russia gets way too much credit for a crisis in confidence in government that we ourselves pretty much fully created. Blaming Russia, to any great extent, for our political environment is just ignoring the last 20-25 years of US history. That's why it's a Red Scare, and it is, because people, you included, are placing inordinately way too much emphasis on Russia and their role in impacting our political and civil atmosphere.

The thing is, the Russian effort may indeed have made the difference in who we have as President right now. There's no way to know. But this was a very close election. It was the election that had THE most discrepancy between who won the popular vote and who won the electoral college. You had one candidate win three key States by 0.7 (Pennsylvania), 0.2 (Michigan), and 0.8 (Wisconsin) percentage points. To say that what the Russians did in terms of their targeted misinformation campaign and especially their campaign to discourage minority voters away from voting for Clinton could not have made the difference given how close those margins were is just being in denial.

I don't know if we've ever had that situation in a Presidential election before.

I personally don't think the story of the 2016 election was Trump doing all that well. He got a lower percentage of the popular vote than Mitt Romney did. He didn't win a majority of the vote in any of the three States mentioned above. I think the story of the 2016 election was people voting "third Party" because they couldn't stomach either candidate. And I think that's an aspect of the situation that the Russians really took advantage of.

[CID1990]

“The 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back.”

Spare us all the hindsight. Playing down Russia has been in the Democratic DNA since 1920.

[HI54UNI]

But what's never been denied is that Russia, and the Soviet Union before them, have always been doing this form of propaganda war, for decades. They didn't just start in 2014, it's been going on for ages. It's what nation states do, both to their adversaries as well as their friends. Sure, Russia was more active or visible this time in terms of modern social media platforms, but in the end they were just following the tide of what was already a polarized and distrusting electorate. Russia gets way too much credit for a crisis in confidence in government that we ourselves pretty much fully created. Blaming Russia, to any great extent, for our political environment is just ignoring the last 20-25 years of US history. That's why it's a Red Scare, and it is, because people, you included, are placing inordinately way too much emphasis on Russia and their role in impacting our political and civil atmosphere.

The thing is, the Russian effort may indeed have made the difference in who we have as President right now. There's no way to know. But this was a very close election. It was the election that had THE most discrepancy between who won the popular vote and who won the electoral college. You had one candidate win three key States by 0.7 (Pennsylvania), 0.2 (Michigan), and 0.8 (Wisconsin) percentage points. To say that what the Russians did in terms of their targeted misinformation campaign and especially their campaign to discourage minority voters away from voting for Clinton could not have made the difference given how close those margins were is just being in denial.

I don't know if we've ever had that situation in a Presidential election before.

I personally don't think the story of the 2016 election was Trump doing all that well. He got a lower percentage of the popular vote than Mitt Romney did. He didn't win a majority of the vote in any of the three States mentioned above. I think the story of the 2016 election was people voting "third Party" because they couldn't stomach either candidate. And I think that's an aspect of the situation that the Russians really took advantage of.

[JohnStOnge]

The thing is, the Russian effort may indeed have made the difference in who we have as President right now. There's no way to know. But this was a very close election. It was the election that had THE most discrepancy between who won the popular vote and who won the electoral college. You had one candidate win three key States by 0.7 (Pennsylvania), 0.2 (Michigan), and 0.8 (Wisconsin) percentage points. To say that what the Russians did in terms of their targeted misinformation campaign and especially their campaign to discourage minority voters away from voting for Clinton could not have made the difference given how close those margins were is just being in denial.

I don't know if we've ever had that situation in a Presidential election before.

I personally don't think the story of the 2016 election was Trump doing all that well. He got a lower percentage of the popular vote than Mitt Romney did. He didn't win a majority of the vote in any of the three States mentioned above. I think the story of the 2016 election was people voting "third Party" because they couldn't stomach either candidate. And I think that's an aspect of the situation that the Russians really took advantage of.

You can do that kind of stuff all you want. Yes, Donald Trump is the President. But it could very well be that a decisive factor in him being the President is that the Russians wanted that and intervened to make it happen. The Russians got what they wanted. And if you think they wanted that because they thought that is what's best for the United States you are really, really kidding yourself.

Donald Trump becoming President was not and is not good for the United States.

[HI54UNI]

You can do that kind of stuff all you want. Yes, Donald Trump is the President. But it could very well be that a decisive factor in him being the President is that the Russians wanted that and intervened to make it happen. The Russians got what they wanted. And if you think they wanted that because they thought that is what's best for the United States you are really, really kidding yourself.

Donald Trump becoming President was not and is not good for the United States.

[CID1990]

You can do that kind of stuff all you want. Yes, Donald Trump is the President. But it could very well be that a decisive factor in him being the President is that the Russians wanted that and intervened to make it happen. The Russians got what they wanted. And if you think they wanted that because they thought that is what's best for the United States you are really, really kidding yourself.

Donald Trump becoming President was not and is not good for the United States.

John-

The Russians don't like us. They still have a complex over how we preach democracy democracy democracy democracy democracy democracy

all the time

We sold it to the world during the cold war

then we destabilized former Soviet proxies in the muddle east, preaching the same thing

The Russians in charge are old cold warriors who bought into perestroika and glasnost and we fvcked them in the ass for it

what they want is disorder and shaken faith in the American system - it doesnt matter who was running in this election .... they would have supported ANY underdog candidate over Hillary Clinton. Thats why they trolled for Bernie in the primaries...

The Russians could give two fbcks about Donald Trump .... in fact they probably would prefer Bernie because he'd be weak on foreign policy issues that Russia cares about

Trump is a walking dick measuring contest and at this point it is questionable whether he is any better for the Russians than Hillary Clitoris


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[Chizzang]

They seem to be very fond of Jared...

[Skjellyfetti]

... and Manafort, and Gates, and Flynn, and Sessions, and Rohrabacher, and Erik Prince, and Wilbur Ross, and Felix Sater, and Carter Page, and JD Gordon, and Papadopoulos, and Tillerson.

Whew.

[kalm]

... and Manafort, and Gates, and Flynn, and Sessions, and Rohrabacher, and Erik Prince, and Wilbur Ross, and Felix Sater, and Carter Page, and JD Gordon, and Papadopoulos, and Tillerson.

Whew.

Nothing burger...

[Ibanez]

They seem to be very fond of Jared...

[GannonFan]

You can do that kind of stuff all you want. Yes, Donald Trump is the President. But it could very well be that a decisive factor in him being the President is that the Russians wanted that and intervened to make it happen. The Russians got what they wanted. And if you think they wanted that because they thought that is what's best for the United States you are really, really kidding yourself.

Donald Trump becoming President was not and is not good for the United States.

Unless the Russians hacked voting booths and changed actual votes (and remember, the main author of this thread has always maintained that there has never been a case of significant election fraud in America), and there's no indication that they did, then they were not anywhere close to a "decisive" factor in this past election. People, real people, voted what they wanted. No matter who was elected, the majority of voters (since no one in the election got anywhere close to 50% of the vote) were going to be disappointed with whoever was elected. If the Russians did anything they simply stoked feelings that were already strongly in place well before even some of these people were candidates. Americans haven't been happy with the politics of Washington and elsewhere for more than two decades now and virtually none of that has anything to do with Russians.

The "decisive" factors in this election was a multi-decade dissatisfaction with politics in general in this country and that two of the most detestable major party candidates in recent memory, and possibly ever, were running. The Russians didn't make any of that happen.

[CID1990]

..... and people connected to Presidential campaigns all the way back to Eisenhower

It’s amazing how soft headed many people are on Russia

[SDHornet]

“The 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back.”

Spare us all the hindsight. Playing down Russia has been in the Democratic DNA since 1920.

This...and the reason the idiot leftists think this Russia meddling is new is because they actually believed Obama when he claimed Russia was our biggest ally and the 1980 line back in 2012.

Idiots.

[SDHornet]

..... and people connected to Presidential campaigns all the way back to Eisenhower

It’s amazing how soft headed many people are on Russia

but collusion!!!!!

[Chizzang]

“The 1980s called, they want their foreign policy back.”

Spare us all the hindsight. Playing down Russia has been in the Democratic DNA since 1920.

This...and the reason the idiot leftists think this Russia meddling is new is because they actually believed Obama when he claimed Russia was our biggest ally and the 1980 line back in 2012.

Idiots.

Yeah.. I'm with you guys
This presidency and administration seems totally normal

[SDHornet]

This...and the reason the idiot leftists think this Russia meddling is new is because they actually believed Obama when he claimed Russia was our biggest ally and the 1980 line back in 2012.

Idiots.

Yeah.. I'm with you guys
This presidency and administration seems totally normal

And that has what to do with Russia meddling in elections/our political system for the last 100 years?

[Chizzang]

Yeah.. I'm with you guys
This presidency and administration seems totally normal

And that has what to do with Russia meddling in elections/our political system for the last 100 years?

Everything actually...



Read my sentence again slower

[CID1990]

This...and the reason the idiot leftists think this Russia meddling is new is because they actually believed Obama when he claimed Russia was our biggest ally and the 1980 line back in 2012.

Idiots.

Yeah.. I'm with you guys
This presidency and administration seems totally normal

Quite the opposite

It's a galloping train wreck

That's the value added for Russia - basically a big wedgie for the "so as we say" cult

[Ivytalk]

Yeah.. I'm with you guys
This presidency and administration seems totally normal

And that has what to do with Russia meddling in elections/our political system for the last 100 years?

Hell, the Czar’s operatives meddled for Woody Wilson back in ‘16....we got into WWI less than a year later...