WA Gov: ISP's Can Suck It

[Baldy]

But what happened that made it necessary...I am of the opinion that the public does not know much if anything about the internet and ISPs and the support came from those who wanted more regulations wailing that the sky could fall if the internet wasn’t regulated...

My background comes from a Communications degree studying the early creation of cable TV and the excess regulation given to local governments that stifled the growth of numerous providers and eventually led to the few huge providers we see today...

Col,
That entire statement is basically (at it's core) untrue
Cable companies in the mid 90s ran roughshod over their competitors by controlling legislation
They almost put Direct TV and Satellite out of business
I'll explain it in great detail if you're willing to read it

This is one area where I know exactly how we got to where we are today
I worked in the Broadband industry during it's consolidation and tax payer funded build out

Yes, please explain. I only worked in the satellite TV business for years. Direct and Dish were blowing up at the time. So much so that Comcast, Time Warner, and a couple others started Primestar. No doubt there was a war between cable and satellite...I was on the front lines, but in no way was DirectTV or Dish Network in any danger of being put out of business.

[Baldy]

And making the internet a public utility increases competition?
Really?
Please explain how.

Making the American Broadband Infrastructure
Comcast's personal private dictatorship sure as hell won't increase competition that is for sure

Handing Comcast the keys to put Netflix OUT OF BUSINESS is pretty much what triggered the debate
Comcast already showed they were more than willing to flat out turn off Netflix streaming bandwidth



Facts ^

Links?

[HI54UNI]

And making the internet a public utility increases competition?
Really?
Please explain how.

I don't think you make it a utility, but it should be regulated similar to a utility from an access and monopolistic standpoint. Government owned utilities are some of the worst utilities around and also lack regulation in certain instances...

Examples please.

[Chizzang]

Making the American Broadband Infrastructure
Comcast's personal private dictatorship sure as hell won't increase competition that is for sure

Handing Comcast the keys to put Netflix OUT OF BUSINESS is pretty much what triggered the debate
Comcast already showed they were more than willing to flat out turn off Netflix streaming bandwidth



Facts ^

Links?

[Chizzang]

Col,
That entire statement is basically (at it's core) untrue
Cable companies in the mid 90s ran roughshod over their competitors by controlling legislation
They almost put Direct TV and Satellite out of business
I'll explain it in great detail if you're willing to read it

This is one area where I know exactly how we got to where we are today
I worked in the Broadband industry during it's consolidation and tax payer funded build out

Yes, please explain. I only worked in the satellite TV business for years. Direct and Dish were blowing up at the time. So much so that Comcast, Time Warner, and a couple others started Primestar. No doubt there was a war between cable and satellite...I was on the front lines, but in no way was DirectTV or Dish Network in any danger of being put out of business.

Baldy the Cable companies have been funding congress for 30 years (Funding see: Lobby bribe money)

During the time shortly after DirecTV launched mysteriously timed brand new legislation popped up
That increased Satellite broadcasters "Fees" in association with shared networks
In short: The new legislation upped charges
Satellite carriers paid almost double for Local Channels for no reason that anyone could explain
out of the blue

[Baldy]

Yes, please explain. I only worked in the satellite TV business for years. Direct and Dish were blowing up at the time. So much so that Comcast, Time Warner, and a couple others started Primestar. No doubt there was a war between cable and satellite...I was on the front lines, but in no way was DirectTV or Dish Network in any danger of being put out of business.

Baldy the Cable companies have been funding congress for 30 years (Funding see: Lobby bribe money)

During the time shortly after DirecTV launched mysteriously timed brand new legislation popped up
That increased Satellite broadcasters "Fees" in association with shared networks
In short: The new legislation upped charges
Satellite carriers paid almost double for Local Channels for no reason that anyone could explain
out of the blue

Since broadcast satellite wasn't a part of Title 47, DirecTV and Dish weren't even able to legally carry local channels until 2000.

[SDHornet]

All chizzy's examples are moot. It's almost 2018, you can literally buy channels minus the cable company nonsense from various vendors. I go through Set TV for something like 500 channels for $20 a month (or $200 a year for those of us with plenty of liquidity ). Cable is a dying dinosaur... as is Baldy's beloved satellite. All you need is legit high speed internet provider...which I pay $65 a month for. Only idiots still have cable boxes or satellite dishes. Times are a changing bitches, get with them.


As far as Netflix is concerned...they are toast...but not because of the ridiculous reasons chizzy is claimed. They are $1.6B in debt to buy and create content (has nothing to do with Comcast fees or whatever). Disney (just bought a shit ton of content from the Fox buyout) and other studios are realizing they don't need a middle man (Netflix) to peddle their content when they can do it wholesale. The recent NN repeal will benefit the consumer in all of these changes...just like consumers benefited big time before any legislation was passed in 2015. 'Merica bitches.

[Baldy]

Links?

Now I see why you didn't provide a link.

Netflix Agrees To Pay Comcast To End Slowdown

For the last several months, Comcast Internet customers have complained about a drop in quality of the Netflix streams being delivered to their homes, and Netflix’s own data showed a massive decline in connection speeds starting in October. But today, the two companies announced they have reached a “mutually beneficial” agreement that will hopefully turn that trend around.

Much like Netflix’s ongoing standoff with Verizon FiOS, the drop in speeds wasn’t an issue of the ISP throttling or blocking service to Netflix. Rather, the ISPs were allowing for Netflix traffic to bottleneck at what’s known as “peering ports,” the connection between Netflix’s bandwidth provider and the ISPs.

Until recently, if peering ports became congested with downstream traffic, it was common practice for an ISP to temporarily open up new ports to maintain the flow of data. This was not a business arrangement; just something that had been done as a courtesy. ISPs would expect the bandwidth companies to do the same if there was a spike in upstream traffic. However, there is virtually no upstream traffic with Netflix, so the Comcasts and Verizons of the world claimed they were being taken advantage of.

[SDHornet]

Baldy still racking up points in garbage time.

[Chizzang]

Baldy the Cable companies have been funding congress for 30 years (Funding see: Lobby bribe money)

During the time shortly after DirecTV launched mysteriously timed brand new legislation popped up
That increased Satellite broadcasters "Fees" in association with shared networks
In short: The new legislation upped charges
Satellite carriers paid almost double for Local Channels for no reason that anyone could explain
out of the blue

Since broadcast satellite wasn't a part of Title 47, DirecTV and Dish weren't even able to legally carry local channels until 2000.

47 is a series of FCC rulings that were rushed into print to derail Satellite growth
and to stall competition against Cable TV Providers

Buried deeply in the 1996 Telecommunication act
Proving that even then cable companies lobby money was hard at work

[Chizzang]

Now I see why you didn't provide a link.

Netflix Agrees To Pay Comcast To End Slowdown

For the last several months, Comcast Internet customers have complained about a drop in quality of the Netflix streams being delivered to their homes, and Netflix’s own data showed a massive decline in connection speeds starting in October. But today, the two companies announced they have reached a “mutually beneficial” agreement that will hopefully turn that trend around.

Much like Netflix’s ongoing standoff with Verizon FiOS, the drop in speeds wasn’t an issue of the ISP throttling or blocking service to Netflix. Rather, the ISPs were allowing for Netflix traffic to bottleneck at what’s known as “peering ports,” the connection between Netflix’s bandwidth provider and the ISPs.

Until recently, if peering ports became congested with downstream traffic, it was common practice for an ISP to temporarily open up new ports to maintain the flow of data. This was not a business arrangement; just something that had been done as a courtesy. ISPs would expect the bandwidth companies to do the same if there was a spike in upstream traffic. However, there is virtually no upstream traffic with Netflix, so the Comcasts and Verizons of the world claimed they were being taken advantage of.

Baldy
because one guy from a now defunct website defends cable giants throttling Netflix bandwidth
During the negotiation process to get a quick resolution... and he doesn't even dispute it
He simply accredits it to something else

Yes, bandwidth availability dropped (he agreed) but it was because of something else
Not Comcast squeezing Netflix... Just a really bizare coincidental circumstances is all



Ultimately none of this will matter because States will write their own legislation
forcing Comcast to leave the bandwidth alone

[CID1990]

Now I see why you didn't provide a link.

Netflix Agrees To Pay Comcast To End Slowdown

Baldy
because one guy from a now defunct website defends cable giants throttling Netflix bandwidth
During the negotiation process to get a quick resolution... and he doesn't even dispute it
He simply accredits it to something else

Yes, bandwidth availability dropped (he agreed) but it was because of something else
Not Comcast squeezing Netflix... Just a really bizare coincidental circumstances is all



Ultimately none of this will matter because States will write their own legislation
forcing Comcast to leave the bandwidth alone

And Comcast will sue them in Federal court and then precedents under the Commerce Clause will favor Comcast

[Baldy]

Now I see why you didn't provide a link.

Netflix Agrees To Pay Comcast To End Slowdown

Baldy
because one guy from a now defunct website defends cable giants throttling Netflix bandwidth
During the negotiation process to get a quick resolution... and he doesn't even dispute it
He simply accredits it to something else

Yes, bandwidth availability dropped (he agreed) but it was because of something else
Not Comcast squeezing Netflix... Just a really bizare coincidental circumstances is all



Ultimately none of this will matter because States will write their own legislation
forcing Comcast to leave the bandwidth alone

It's not just some guy from a defunct website. The website is still in operation and he is a writer for Consumer Reports. To the best of my recollection, I think their doors are still open for business. Add to that, he's also a big "net neutrality" guy too, so there's that. The difference is that he isn't some super emotional freak with his hair on fire.

Just stop, you're flailing.

[Ibanez]

All chizzy's examples are moot. It's almost 2018, you can literally buy channels minus the cable company nonsense from various vendors. I go through Set TV for something like 500 channels for $20 a month (or $200 a year for those of us with plenty of liquidity ). Cable is a dying dinosaur... as is Baldy's beloved satellite. All you need is legit high speed internet provider...which I pay $65 a month for. Only idiots still have cable boxes or satellite dishes. Times are a changing bitches, get with them.


As far as Netflix is concerned...they are toast...but not because of the ridiculous reasons chizzy is claimed. They are $1.6B in debt to buy and create content (has nothing to do with Comcast fees or whatever). Disney (just bought a shit ton of content from the Fox buyout) and other studios are realizing they don't need a middle man (Netflix) to peddle their content when they can do it wholesale. The recent NN repeal will benefit the consumer in all of these changes...just like consumers benefited big time before any legislation was passed in 2015. 'Merica bitches.

I agree that people should cut the cord. However, that'll only make the Amazon Firestick/Roku/Google Chromecast/AppleTV/Netgear streaming device the new cable box. If you have access to high speed internet, cut the cord.

But competition is only 1 part of the problem (if it is, at all. I welcome a competitor in Fort Mill.) Baldy and Col are hooked on that. They have failed (or maybe they haven't fully articulated their position) how Comcast/AT&T/etc.. having the potential to slow down your internet speed based on their political/moral values and the sites you visit is a good thing (if it comes to pass.) I know the argument - it hasn't happened- but that's weak. Lots of things were risks that we accepted before something bad happened. To me, ensuring unrestrained access to whatever site I want, without interference from an ISP is more important.

I would love if Spectrum or Google Fiber would cross the SC/NC border and be available in my area. But the local, family-owned utility has the monopoly and I don't see that changing.

[Ivytalk]

What’s wrong with monopolies? “Nature red in tooth and claw” and all that.

[Ibanez]

What’s wrong with monopolies? “Nature red in tooth and claw” and all that.

Let us sit, and speak of dead, English poets.

[Chizzang]

Baldy
because one guy from a now defunct website defends cable giants throttling Netflix bandwidth
During the negotiation process to get a quick resolution... and he doesn't even dispute it
He simply accredits it to something else

Yes, bandwidth availability dropped (he agreed) but it was because of something else
Not Comcast squeezing Netflix... Just a really bizare coincidental circumstances is all



Ultimately none of this will matter because States will write their own legislation
forcing Comcast to leave the bandwidth alone

And Comcast will sue them in Federal court and then precedents under the Commerce Clause will favor Comcast

So you think (In the United States of America)
That Government Oversight (Net Neutrality)
will lose out to Private Business desire for complete control of an infrastructure it doesn't own..?



well let me tell you the story of America...
I'll start with the FDA
and end with the TSA

[Chizzang]

Here is conservative Wall Street Journal on Net Neutrality

phpBB [video]

[CID1990]

Well one way of looking at this is that now Comcast is exposed..

How they came to be the BORG of the US net infrastructure is not information just limited to the occasional partially Harvard educated skinny latte dot.commer in Seattle

In a few years Comcast will be fighting off all kinds of antitrust lawsuits and they will go the way of Ma Bell

With Net Neutrality, Comcast gets to hang back in the shadows and let Congress take the heat that Comcast should be feeling

[Chizzang]

Well one way of looking at this is that now Comcast is exposed..

How they came to be the BORG of the US net infrastructure is not information just limited to the occasional partially Harvard educated skinny latte dot.commer in Seattle

In a few years Comcast will be fighting off all kinds of antitrust lawsuits and they will go the way of Ma Bell

With Net Neutrality, Comcast gets to hang back in the shadows and let Congress take the heat that Comcast should be feeling

I sincerely appreciate your assessment...
However Comcast has long paid off our Congress and are deeply invested in our Federal System
Which is a system based on payola

The only thing Comcast is going to be fighting is their customers
Whom they haven't cared about for years
Actually since right around when they were handed the keys to the U.S. Broadband infrastructure

Check This:
How does a company stay in business
that has over 20 years consecutively
scored the lowest in customer service
I'll tell you how...

Hint:
The United States Congress

[UNI88]

As is my custom I'm squarely in the middle on this one. But I don't think it's as simple as this is all the ISPs' fault on one hand or this is all the governments' fault on the other.

First, no one had really debunked the Wired article that Baldy linked to so it's not simply a case of the big, bad ISP has a monopoly and can throttle my access for nefarious reasons. Local governments have played a part in creating this situation and need to stop being greedy or overly regulatory and fix it.

Second, the concerns about Comcast are valid. Do you think Comcast is upset that local governments have raised the cost of entry into the market? I dumped Comcast in June to stream my TV. What were my ISP options? Comcast at 150 Mbps or AT&T at 10 Mbps. There were 5 people in my house using TVs, phones, laptops, tablets, etc. so I needed bandwidth and AT&T wasn't going to cut it. So I'm still stuck with Comcast and if they want to throttle my access to their competitors' content there isn't much I can do about it. Both of they and AT&T cap me at 1TB of data per month which pisses me off and makes it difficult to stream HD on a regular basis. They know what I'm doing and they want to make it painful hoping that I'll rejoin the collective. They were screwing with me even with net neutrality and now they're going to find creative new ways to screw me over.

I worry about what the ISPs will do with this power and I blame the governments for giving them the power to worry me.

Cid is right though - if (or more likely when) the ISPs abuse this it will only hasten their demise. Of course by then, todays ISP executives think will have retired with gazillions in bonuses and stock options and it will be someone else's problem.

[UNI88]

duplicate post

[Chizzang]

More shenanigans by Comcast... to control every aspect of the public broadband infrastructure

https://muninetworks.org/content/totals ... s-election

[Ibanez]

More shenanigans by Comcast... to control every aspect of the public broadband infrastructure

https://muninetworks.org/content/totals ... s-election

Next person to say “shenanigans” is getting pistol whipped...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kalm]

More shenanigans by Comcast... to control every aspect of the public broadband infrastructure

https://muninetworks.org/content/totals ... s-election

Next person to say “shenanigans” is getting pistol whipped...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bollocks! Malarkey!!!