Colin Kaepernick

[BDKJMU]

[Ibanez]

You're missing the point

YOU don't get to call the shots on what the protests are all about because the majority disagrees with you

The protests are about the flag and the anthem - because the majority and the media say so

Now why don't you stop, take a deep breath, and think about that for a minute... in the larger context

The protest are about the injustice in the American Criminal Justice system. They have a right to protest about this matter.

I have a sincere question - What does the National Anthem have to do with our criminal justice system? Shouldn't the protesters be at various court houses and/or state supreme courts instead of protesting for 2 minutes before a football game?

[CAA Flagship]

The protest are about the injustice in the American Criminal Justice system. They have a right to protest about this matter.

I have a sincere question - What does the National Anthem have to do with our criminal justice system? Shouldn't the protesters be at various court houses and/or state supreme courts instead of protesting for 2 minutes before a football game?

I don't think this is hard to tie together. National Anthem is tied to flag is tied to America is tied to Constitution is tied to equality and shit. That all makes sense to me. But there are no laws that I can think of that will solve their complaints. It's a matter of culture change, I guess. But where they fell short in the planning of this tantrum is that the target audience is unlikely to support them after being pissed off at the show of disrespect. It's an ill-fated campaign because of the delivery.

[BDKJMU]

At work in uniform you don't have freedom of speech:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html

[BDKJMU]

Some NBA basketball coach was out there saying ‘White people need to be made uncomfortable."
http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/25/nba-c ... mfortable/
Wrong. More like white liberals need to quit being self loathing.

[CAA Flagship]

At work in uniform you don't have freedom of speech:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/loca ... story.html

Anthony Guglielmi, spokesman for the Chicago Police Department, said the department was not identifying the officers. In an email response to the Tribune's questions about Clark's post, Guglielmi said, "we are aware of the photo and we will address it in the same way we have handled previous incidents in which officers have made political statements while in uniform, with a reprimand and a reminder of department policies."

Is this "political"?

[Ibanez]

I have a sincere question - What does the National Anthem have to do with our criminal justice system? Shouldn't the protesters be at various court houses and/or state supreme courts instead of protesting for 2 minutes before a football game?

I don't think this is hard to tie together. National Anthem is tied to flag is tied to America is tied to Constitution is tied to equality and shit. That all makes sense to me. But there are no laws that I can think of that will solve their complaints. It's a matter of culture change, I guess. But where they fell short in the planning of this tantrum is that the target audience is unlikely to support them after being pissed off at the show of disrespect. It's an ill-fated campaign because of the delivery.

I understand they are protesting a symbol of the country.

[kalm]

Yes...force unity and conformity at all costs...

So you'd be cool with your employees at work in uniform taking a political stance in front of your customers that alienated a large chunk of your customers. Got it.

So you ridicule the NoFunLeague while supporting conformity and obedience? How authoritarian of you...sort of.

It's a company decision, the Troller in Chief should stay the fuck out of it.

[Skjellyfetti]

It's a company decision, the Troller in Chief should stay the fuck out of it.

Exactly.

The President calling for Americans to boycott an American company is surely a first. Imagine if Obama called for Americans to boycott Chik-fil-a or Hobby Lobby.

[GannonFan]

It's a company decision, the Troller in Chief should stay the **** out of it.

Exactly.

The President calling for Americans to boycott an American company is surely a first. Imagine if Obama called for Americans to boycott Chik-fil-a or Hobby Lobby.

We're always in new waters - there have been boycotts for Trump owned business or businesses that are friendly to Trump, and there have been boycotts the other direction for business that do not support Trump. If you're not boycotting someone, or being boycotted yourself, you might be a moderate.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

You're missing the point

YOU don't get to call the shots on what the protests are all about because the majority disagrees with you

The protests are about the flag and the anthem - because the majority and the media say so

Now why don't you stop, take a deep breath, and think about that for a minute... in the larger context

The protest are about the injustice in the American Criminal Justice system. They have a right to protest about this matter.

They don't have a right to do it during the National Anthem.

It's a white thing, you can't possibly understand

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Some NBA basketball coach was out there saying ‘White people need to be made uncomfortable."
http://dailycaller.com/2017/09/25/nba-c ... mfortable/
Wrong. More like white liberals need to quit being self loathing.

They don't want me uncomfortable

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[Skjellyfetti]

We're always in new waters - there have been boycotts for Trump owned business or businesses that are friendly to Trump, and there have been boycotts the other direction for business that do not support Trump. If you're not boycotting someone, or being boycotted yourself, you might be a moderate.

It's entirely different if MoveOn.org or Focus on the Family or some other organization like that calls for a boycott of an American company than it for the President of the United States to call for a boycott of an American company. It's baffling.

[89Hen]

If it's not about the flag, why do it during the tribute to the flag You just keep missing the point Klean.

You are the one who is missing the point. For over 6 years, we have seen unarmed black men killed by police and nothing has been done about it. My grandfather who was a WWII Army Combat Vet came back to Georgia and could not vote. Now THIS is a disrespectful to the flag. Paying taxes but now being able to vote is disrespectful to the flag. Letting Police become Judge, Jury and Executioner is very disrespectful to the flag.

You're all over the place Klean. Do you think what the Cowboys did last night is a better idea?

[GannonFan]

We're always in new waters - there have been boycotts for Trump owned business or businesses that are friendly to Trump, and there have been boycotts the other direction for business that do not support Trump. If you're not boycotting someone, or being boycotted yourself, you might be a moderate.

It's entirely different if MoveOn.org or Focus on the Family or some other organization like that calls for a boycott of an American company than it for the President of the United States to call for a boycott of an American company. It's baffling.

It's our reality - everyone is aggrieved and everyone feels there can't be any common ground or they have lost. The fact that it's filtered up to the Presidential level the way that it has isn't baffling, it's par for the course in terms of how we interact with each other these days. Twitter is the bane of our existence - it's taken the type of comments that were just buried and ignored in newspaper comment sections and has broadcast them with some supposed authority.

[JohnStOnge]

They have a right to do it and their employers have a right to discipline them or fire them for doing it. In this case it's clear the employers are not going to do that. Probably a smart move too because only a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of the top one percent of the population has the ability to do what they do and regardless of whether ratings are up or down a little what they do is still in tremendous demand. Companies will still be paying millions of dollars per minute for commercials during the next Super Bowl.

I actually don't agree with the premise of the protests. I think this country bends over backwards to facilitate Black success and has been doing that for decades. I think that, on balance, Blacks get favorable rather than unfavorable treatment relative to other racial groups.

At the same time, this robotic "1984" patriotism idol worship stuff always bothers me. It's like when they were wanting to make laws to prosecute people for burning the flag a while back. Here we have a symbol of a country where one of the primary founding principles is being able to express thought freely even if the thought is unpopular. THAT'S one of the principles the flag is a symbol of. And we have people who want people to be fired for disrespecting a symbol of a set of principles that says they ought to be able to do that if they want to.

It's like idol worship. It's just a piece of cloth with colors on it. It's not a god. This country is not a god. Troops aren't fighting for the flag. And if they are they are misdirected. They're fighting for the principles the flag symbolizes. This thing of getting all in a wad because someone doesn't go through some kind of ritual that could have come out of the Medieval Period over a piece of cloth is a societal sickness. It's like the "Up with Big Brother" stuff in 1984. Or like Inquisition. Thou shalt not blaspheme the colored piece of cloth! Don't you DARE disrespect our symbol!

[89Hen]

It's like idol worship. It's just a piece of cloth with colors on it. It's not a god. This country is not a god. Troops aren't fighting for the flag. And if they are they are misdirected. They're fighting for the principles the flag symbolizes. This thing of getting all in a wad because someone doesn't go through some kind of ritual that could have come out of the Medieval Period over a piece of cloth is a societal sickness. It's like the "Up with Big Brother" stuff in 1984. Or like Inquisition. Thou shalt not blaspheme the colored piece of cloth! Don't you DARE disrespect our symbol!

It's funny to me that you use hyperbole to argue against hyperbole.


And for the record, I've never called for fines or firings over this. I just think it's unnecessarily disrespectful.

[mrklean]

They have a right to do it and their employers have a right to discipline them or fire them for doing it. In this case it's clear the employers are not going to do that. Probably a smart move too because only a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of the top one percent of the population has the ability to do what they do and regardless of whether ratings are up or down a little what they do is still in tremendous demand. Companies will still be paying millions of dollars per minute for commercials during the next Super Bowl.

I actually don't agree with the premise of the protests. I think this country bends over backwards to facilitate Black success and has been doing that for decades. I think that, on balance, Blacks get favorable rather than unfavorable treatment relative to other racial groups.

At the same time, this robotic "1984" patriotism idol worship stuff always bothers me. It's like when they were wanting to make laws to prosecute people for burning the flag a while back. Here we have a symbol of a country where one of the primary founding principles is being able to express thought freely even if the thought is unpopular. THAT'S one of the principles the flag is a symbol of. And we have people who want people to be fired for disrespecting a symbol of a set of principles that says they ought to be able to do that if they want to.

It's like idol worship. It's just a piece of cloth with colors on it. It's not a god. This country is not a god. Troops aren't fighting for the flag. And if they are they are misdirected. They're fighting for the principles the flag symbolizes. This thing of getting all in a wad because someone doesn't go through some kind of ritual that could have come out of the Medieval Period over a piece of cloth is a societal sickness. It's like the "Up with Big Brother" stuff in 1984. Or like Inquisition. Thou shalt not blaspheme the colored piece of cloth! Don't you DARE disrespect our symbol!

I do not agree with the first part of your statement. No white man in this group would trade places with a rich black man. Because in this country,a black man may be successful, rich and law abiding, but at the end of the day, he is still a black man in America. However, I do agree with the second part of your statement. My favorite quote from Thomas Jefferson is, "Beware of cowards who shelter behind the flag of patriotism" back in the 1700's they knew that people would use the vale of patriotism for their own personal agenda. Everyone wants to be a super patriot when the argument agrees with them. I will continue to support these men until we demand that the USA lives up to her original promise. That all men are created equal.

[JohnStOnge]

It's like idol worship. It's just a piece of cloth with colors on it. It's not a god. This country is not a god. Troops aren't fighting for the flag. And if they are they are misdirected. They're fighting for the principles the flag symbolizes. This thing of getting all in a wad because someone doesn't go through some kind of ritual that could have come out of the Medieval Period over a piece of cloth is a societal sickness. It's like the "Up with Big Brother" stuff in 1984. Or like Inquisition. Thou shalt not blaspheme the colored piece of cloth! Don't you DARE disrespect our symbol!

It's funny to me that you use hyperbole to argue against hyperbole.


And for the record, I've never called for fines or firings over this. I just think it's unnecessarily disrespectful.

I don't think it's hyberbole. There are a lot of people who are really into the flag ritualism. You can see that manifested in historical polls about whether or not there should be a Constitutional Amendment to allow Congress to pass a law making flag burning a crime. It's not always a majority in those polls. But it's always a substantial proportion of the population (see https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 77e080f657).

It is just a piece of cloth. There is something off when people act like a piece of cloth has to be treated with "respect." Yes, I am proud of the symbol and I fly it pretty frequently in front of my house. But this thing where people are into all this ritualistic stuff about how it can't touch the ground, can't get rained on, has to be folded a certain way, etc., is sick. It really is like some Medieval religious ritualism.

[mrklean]

You are the one who is missing the point. For over 6 years, we have seen unarmed black men killed by police and nothing has been done about it. My grandfather who was a WWII Army Combat Vet came back to Georgia and could not vote. Now THIS is a disrespectful to the flag. Paying taxes but now being able to vote is disrespectful to the flag. Letting Police become Judge, Jury and Executioner is very disrespectful to the flag.

You're all over the place Klean. Do you think what the Cowboys did last night is a better idea?

What the Cowboy's did is the middle of the road. To protest means you take a risk. Protest is never safe or comfortable.

[kalm]

You're all over the place Klean. Do you think what the Cowboys did last night is a better idea?

What the Cowboy's did is the middle of the road. To protest means you take a risk. Protest is never safe or comfortable.

I'm guessing there have been many safe and comfortable protests. Civil disobedience? Probably less. But why would I protest something if it involves risk? Why can't I show up, shake my fist a little, or just stand around as a warm body and then go to the pub afterward thinking I did my part?

Jesus! Caring is becoming sooo tedious!

[CID1990]

They have a right to do it and their employers have a right to discipline them or fire them for doing it. In this case it's clear the employers are not going to do that. Probably a smart move too because only a tiny fraction of a tiny fraction of the top one percent of the population has the ability to do what they do and regardless of whether ratings are up or down a little what they do is still in tremendous demand. Companies will still be paying millions of dollars per minute for commercials during the next Super Bowl.

I actually don't agree with the premise of the protests. I think this country bends over backwards to facilitate Black success and has been doing that for decades. I think that, on balance, Blacks get favorable rather than unfavorable treatment relative to other racial groups.

At the same time, this robotic "1984" patriotism idol worship stuff always bothers me. It's like when they were wanting to make laws to prosecute people for burning the flag a while back. Here we have a symbol of a country where one of the primary founding principles is being able to express thought freely even if the thought is unpopular. THAT'S one of the principles the flag is a symbol of. And we have people who want people to be fired for disrespecting a symbol of a set of principles that says they ought to be able to do that if they want to.

It's like idol worship. It's just a piece of cloth with colors on it. It's not a god. This country is not a god. Troops aren't fighting for the flag. And if they are they are misdirected. They're fighting for the principles the flag symbolizes. This thing of getting all in a wad because someone doesn't go through some kind of ritual that could have come out of the Medieval Period over a piece of cloth is a societal sickness. It's like the "Up with Big Brother" stuff in 1984. Or like Inquisition. Thou shalt not blaspheme the colored piece of cloth! Don't you DARE disrespect our symbol!

I do not agree with the first part of your statement. No white man in this group would trade places with a rich black man. Because in this country,a black man may be successful, rich and law abiding, but at the end of the day, he is still a black man in America. However, I do agree with the second part of your statement. My favorite quote from Thomas Jefferson is, "Beware of cowards who shelter behind the flag of patriotism" back in the 1700's they knew that people would use the vale of patriotism for their own personal agenda. Everyone wants to be a super patriot when the argument agrees with them. I will continue to support these men until we demand that the USA lives up to her original promise. That all men are created equal.

Homework project for klein:

Identify the fallacious logic you used in that "trade places" example you lifted from Chris Rock


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[∞∞∞]

So the black community protests and they're criticized for not protesting peacefully. So they peacefully protest and it's criticized as a lack of respect towards America.

Honestly, it just seems like critics are telling the black community that they don't want to see or hear about their concerns. It's a complete lack of empathy and care for fellow Americans; these athletes have a powerful platform to use as a tool for change and they should be using it - and they are using it in a peaceful manner.

It's complete BS (and very authoritarian) to say it's disrespectful to exercise a constitutional right; in fact the true stress-test of the 1st amendment is when it's used for such occasions.

[CID1990]

So the black community protests and they're criticized for not protesting peacefully. So they peacefully protest and it's criticized as a lack of respect towards America.

Honestly, it just seems like critics are telling the black community that they don't want to see or hear about their concerns. It's a complete lack of empathy and care for fellow Americans; these athletes have a powerful platform to use as a tool for change and they should be using it - and they are using it in a peaceful manner.

It's complete BS (and very authoritarian) to say it's disrespectful to exercise a constitutional right; in fact the true stress-test of the 1st amendment is when it's used for such occasions.

See, Klein?

Not a word about what the protesting is about - even from Squig

You're losing the narrative battle to a Cheeto-faced Shitgibbon


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[∞∞∞]

So the black community protests and they're criticized for not protesting peacefully. So they peacefully protest and it's criticized as a lack of respect towards America.

Honestly, it just seems like critics are telling the black community that they don't want to see or hear about their concerns. It's a complete lack of empathy and care for fellow Americans; these athletes have a powerful platform to use as a tool for change and they should be using it - and they are using it in a peaceful manner.

It's complete BS (and very authoritarian) to say it's disrespectful to exercise a constitutional right; in fact the true stress-test of the 1st amendment is when it's used for such occasions.

See, Klein?

Not a word about what the protesting is about - even from Squig

You're losing the narrative battle to a Cheeto-faced Shitgibbon


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So instead of summarizing and saying "concerns," I have to list the concerns every single time?

Certainly from these protests is born a separate 1st amendment issue, but that doesn't mean the story regarding police brutality of the black community has disappeared. It's just two separate questions now.