Colin Kaepernick

[GannonFan]

That's what he said his reason was. If he didn't say, there is no way to tell why he would have been doing it. It would be like me boycotting McDonald's because I'm pro-life. That's what I mean be the two are unrelated. Disrespecting the anthem/flag does nothing for the cause and that's become abundantly clear.

Why is kneeling disrespectful?

Maybe because I grew up Episcopalian, wearing out the kneelers every Sunday... but, kneeling has never seemed disrespectful to me. Seems more solemn and contemplative.

People complain about the Orioles' "O" during the anthem. Don't think that's disrespectful either.

If Kaepernick said at the start that he was kneeling to be more respectful to the flag, then this wouldn't even be a thread. He said very clearly that he was kneeling to protest something in the country that the flag stood for and would be doing so until it was fixed and it (the country and/or flag) warranted standing at attention for yet again. That's why.

[Pwns]

My whole take on this;

- the reason to protest (racial inequality, including deadly outcomes with police) is very valid and everyone should be concerned about that enough to demand change.

No, it is not valid. There are absolutely police killings that should not happen and I'm fine with talking about changing the rules about when deadly force can be used with officers. But the idea that there's any "systemic racism" involved here is pure BS.

Harvard Study: No Racial Bias in Police Shooting
Whtie cops not more likely to shoot black suspects

I will say that I do have a little bit more sympathy with the demonstrations this past week. Trump should've kept his damn mouth shut, and asking the NFL to fire people who kneel is just stupid.

[89Hen]

That's what he said his reason was. If he didn't say, there is no way to tell why he would have been doing it. It would be like me boycotting McDonald's because I'm pro-life. That's what I mean be the two are unrelated. Disrespecting the anthem/flag does nothing for the cause and that's become abundantly clear.

Why is kneeling disrespectful?

Maybe because I grew up Episcopalian, wearing out the kneelers every Sunday... but, kneeling has never seemed disrespectful to me. Seems more solemn and contemplative.

People complain about the Orioles' "O" during the anthem. Don't think that's disrespectful either.

I figured you probably knelt for a variety of reasons over the course of your life, but let's leave that for another discussion. Kneeling or sitting for the anthem by somebody who knows to stand is a purposeful demonstration. Just like turning your back to the flag during the anthem like some women's bball players did a couple years ago.

[GannonFan]

My whole take on this;

- the reason to protest (racial inequality, including deadly outcomes with police) is very valid and everyone should be concerned about that enough to demand change.

No, it is not valid. There are absolutely police killings that should not happen and I'm fine with talking about changing the rules about when deadly force can be used with officers. But the idea that there's any "systemic racism" involved here is pure BS.

Harvard Study: No Racial Bias in Police Shooting
Whtie cops not more likely to shoot black suspects

I will say that I do have a little bit more sympathy with the demonstrations this past week. Trump should've kept his damn mouth shut, and asking the NFL to fire people who kneel is just stupid.

Well, even the first study you quoted had this nugget in it:

At the same time, the study found blacks and Hispanics were more than 50 percent more likely to experience physical interactions with police, including touching, pushing, handcuffing, drawing a weapon, and using a baton or pepper spray.

Arguing about the semantics is great and all, but at the end of the day even I know as a white person that I'm less likely to have to interact with the police than a non-white and when I do interact with them, I'm less likely to have a bad outcome than they are. Parse that anyway you want, but it's still inequality. The solutions aren't all that simple, either.

[BDKJMU]

There's no rule regarding the national anthem; it doesn't even need to be played.

And news.grabien.com?

If there's no rule regarding the anthem, then the Washington Post fake news..

"...The rules are found on pages A62-63 of the league’s game operations manual:
The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.
Yet the NFL's Game Operations Manual -- the 200-plus book the league refers to as its "bible" -- is different than its rulebook. It is not available to the public.

..... The rule cited above comes from the league itself, via the Washington Post.
The Post reported Sunday that the NFL confirmed the rule's existence but emphasized their ability to enforce it selectively:........"
https://news.grabien.com/story-roger-go ... ng-players

[BDKJMU]

And if an owner fired a player over taking a knee you would lose your ****.

It depends of the state. In the South, we are a right to work state. They can fired you at will. But back to the original question. I support the players. The shooting of unarmed black men is not right and everyone knows this. And injustice to one is an injustice to all, no matter what color they are.

Showing respect for the national anthem has nothing to do with alledged shootings of unarmed black men.

[BDKJMU]

NFL ratings were down near double digits last season. Last year the NFL tried to blame it on the election. They are down double digits this season through the 1st 2 weeks before players en mass pulled their stunt this weekend. The NFL has tried to blame it on Hurricanes. They'll be down even further because of the backlash. Trump supporters aren't an insignificant # of NFL fans.

[BDKJMU]

The most popular selling NFL jersey is now one for an offensive tackle.
https://www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/arti ... nfl-jersey

[HI54UNI]

How so? They are 100% unrelated.

You know damn well this was the reason why Kaepernick was sitting down during the National Anthem.

He did it because his girlfriend told him to.

[kalm]

Why is kneeling disrespectful?

Maybe because I grew up Episcopalian, wearing out the kneelers every Sunday... but, kneeling has never seemed disrespectful to me. Seems more solemn and contemplative.

People complain about the Orioles' "O" during the anthem. Don't think that's disrespectful either.

I figured you probably knelt for a variety of reasons over the course of your life, but let's leave that for another discussion. Kneeling or sitting for the anthem by somebody who knows to stand is a purposeful demonstration. Just like turning your back to the flag during the anthem like some women's bball players did a couple years ago.

Of course exempted by taking a leak, standing in line for a braut, or bsing with that friend you haven't seen for awhile.

[89Hen]

I figured you probably knelt for a variety of reasons over the course of your life, but let's leave that for another discussion. Kneeling or sitting for the anthem by somebody who knows to stand is a purposeful demonstration. Just like turning your back to the flag during the anthem like some women's bball players did a couple years ago.

Of course exempted by taking a leak, standing in line for a braut, or bsing with that friend you haven't seen for awhile.

I'm kinda used to stopping what I do sometimes. The school where I coached ice hockey is a Catholic school and you absolutely stop in your tracks during morning or afternoon prayers. You'll like this one, I sometimes play in golf outings at Andrews AFB and often we'd still be playing around the time the flag was lowered and everyone would stop, take off cap and stand silently while retreat was done. You'd see guys slam on the breaks on their golf and jump out of the carts to do so. I think it's awesome.

phpBB [video]

[kalm]

Of course exempted by taking a leak, standing in line for a braut, or bsing with that friend you haven't seen for awhile.

I'm kinda used to stopping what I do sometimes. The school where I coached ice hockey is a Catholic school and you absolutely stop in your tracks during morning or afternoon prayers. You'll like this one, I sometimes play in golf outings at Andrews AFB and often we'd still be playing around the time the flag was lowered and everyone would stop, take off cap and stand silently while retreat was done. You'd see guys slam on the breaks on their golf and jump out of the carts to do so. I think it's awesome.

I'm the same way, but a ton of people don't really give a rip until it's one side against the other I guess.

[89Hen]

I'm kinda used to stopping what I do sometimes. The school where I coached ice hockey is a Catholic school and you absolutely stop in your tracks during morning or afternoon prayers. You'll like this one, I sometimes play in golf outings at Andrews AFB and often we'd still be playing around the time the flag was lowered and everyone would stop, take off cap and stand silently while retreat was done. You'd see guys slam on the breaks on their golf and jump out of the carts to do so. I think it's awesome.

I'm the same way, but a ton of people don't really give a rip until it's one side against the other I guess.

I have a spook facility across the street from my office and I will pull my car over and get out if they are lowering the flag when I'm driving home.

[Pwns]

No, it is not valid. There are absolutely police killings that should not happen and I'm fine with talking about changing the rules about when deadly force can be used with officers. But the idea that there's any "systemic racism" involved here is pure BS.

Harvard Study: No Racial Bias in Police Shooting
Whtie cops not more likely to shoot black suspects

I will say that I do have a little bit more sympathy with the demonstrations this past week. Trump should've kept his damn mouth shut, and asking the NFL to fire people who kneel is just stupid.

Well, even the first study you quoted had this nugget in it:

At the same time, the study found blacks and Hispanics were more than 50 percent more likely to experience physical interactions with police, including touching, pushing, handcuffing, drawing a weapon, and using a baton or pepper spray.

Arguing about the semantics is great and all, but at the end of the day even I know as a white person that I'm less likely to have to interact with the police than a non-white and when I do interact with them, I'm less likely to have a bad outcome than they are. Parse that anyway you want, but it's still inequality. The solutions aren't all that simple, either.

How does black and hispanics having more physical altercations with police prove anything?

That tells you nothing about the context of each police encounter, who initiated the aggression, or whether aggression by police was justified. It's well understood that a disproportionately high percentage of violent crimes (and it's backed up by DoJ surveys of crimes victims).

[89Hen]

phpBB [video]

[Grizalltheway]

From last year but still worth the read.

https://medium.com/@VetsForKaep/an-open ... a9bffb764c

[BDKJMU]

I know you'll never see this disrespect at a NASCAR race..
"...Several NASCAR team owners said Sunday they would not condone racers protesting during the national anthem, amid ongoing demonstrations by sports players.

There were no protests reported during “The Star-Spangled Banner" at the Monster Energy NASCAR Cup Series in New Hampshire, according to The Associated Press.

Former NASCAR champion Richard Petty told the AP that any member of his team would be fired if they chose to protest the national anthem. Petty now owns Richard Petty Motorsports.

“Anybody that don’t stand up for the anthem oughta be out of the country. Period. What got ’em where they’re at? The United States,” Petty said in comments reported by the AP.
Richard Childress, a former drive who owns Richard Childress Racing, said any protests from his team members would “get you a ride on a Greyhound bus.”

“Anybody that works for me should respect the country we live in. So many people gave their lives for it. This is America,” Childress reportedly said....."
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/352164 ... s-at-races

[Skjellyfetti]

phpBB [video]

He didn't put his hand on his heart.

Very disrespectful.

[89Hen]

phpBB [video]

He didn't put his hand on his heart.

Very disrespectful.

You should stick to kneeling.

[89Hen]

“Anybody that don’t stand up for the anthem oughta be out of the country. Period.

And a good thought goes too far.

[kalm]

I'm the same way, but a ton of people don't really give a rip until it's one side against the other I guess.

I have a spook facility across the street from my office and I will pull my car over and get out if they are lowering the flag when I'm driving home.

Impressive.

[CID1990]

Wrong. And I figured a libtard such as yourself would side with the players, who have zero valid reason not to be standing during the anthem. I'm sure you'd be kneeling if you were out there..

I would and it has nothing to do with the Military or the Flag.

Well well well

See how this works?

When a symbol or gesture you respect gets its meaning twisted by the mob

Suddenly it doesnt matter what that gesture means to YOU - others will define it FOR you




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CAA Flagship]

I'm the same way, but a ton of people don't really give a rip until it's one side against the other I guess.

I have a spook facility across the street from my office and I will pull my car over and get out if they are lowering the flag when I'm driving home.

That's racists.

[kalm]

“Anybody that don’t stand up for the anthem oughta be out of the country. Period.

And a good thought goes too far.

Richard Petty don't get America.

[mrklean]

My whole take on this;

- the reason to protest (racial inequality, including deadly outcomes with police) is very valid and everyone should be concerned about that enough to demand change.
- If someone was so willing to protest it by doing something during a national anthem, then by all means they should go ahead and do that - we are a free country and you can't be hauled into jail for doing so.
- The better place to protest this would be not during the actual national anthem, especially with the big flag draped across the field normally held by veterans, current armed services members, family of fallen armed service members, first responders, etc. Pre and post game interviews would be a better spot (heck, you could even articulate your protest in those cases rather than silently doing it during the anthem), going out and protesting on the front lives with BLM marchers and the such would be better, organizing a march yourself of fellow NFL players to a place of government would be better.
- Employment in the NFL is governed by the collective bargaining agreement between management and the players. If someone was going to be fired over something, it needs to be spelled out there. If an owner had the right to fire someone for kneeling during the anthem, then he could do that and be justified in doing it. With that said, the same owner would have to deal with the justified reaction from other players and the public if he did such a thing. But the right to free speech (whether to protest or to react to a protest) does not protect you from the consequences of that free speech.
- Trump is like gasoline on a fire. In pretty much everything. Of course, that's why many people actually did vote for him. What he did and said was not Presidential, but almost everything he does and says is not Presidential. If you think you have to contest everything he says and does for fear of it being normalized if you don't, well, more power to you. Trump is following a tide, he's not a trail blazer himself. I think we've lost that normalization battle long before he came along. I blame message boards like these, Twitter, and newspaper comment sections - when people think they can say anything they want and send it into the void without repercussions, then this is what we devolve to.
- With all that said, I detest pro athletes getting sanctimonious and preachy about stuff, especially in and around the game itself (i.e. not on off days). It reminds me of the pro athletes that, post 9/11, didn't want to start playing games "too soon" after, and we went almost two weeks before a baseball game was played again and an NFL game as well. I had to listen to athletes tell us we had to heal as a nation before getting back to work. The irony was that most working America was back to work on 9/12, and everyday after that while the pro athletes were "healing".
- So in the end, I don't care for the protesting to be done during the anthem, but I know and appreciate they have the right to do so and the cause they are protesting for (racial inequality and violence by police) is a justified cause to protest for. Oh, and I wish the NFL shows would just get around to showing the game highlights - I had to wait 20-25 minutes to get through everyone analyzing the kneeling or not kneeling before I could see football highlights on Sunday night football last night.
- Oh, and Kaepernick isn't a very good QB - that's why he's unemployed. You could make an argument for him to have caught on as a backup somewhere, but he proved he was a system-orientated QB that only was effective in Harbaugh's system, and unless they start a pro franchise in Ann Arbor then he's a very limited QB anywhere else.

You know nothing about the game football. I can name 11 teams that could use him right now.
By the way, this has nothing to do about the flag, fallen warriors or love of this country. This is making sure that this country keeps its original promise that all men and women are treated equal. ALL