The End of Identity Liberalism

[houndawg]

Indeed, and sadly it's still continuing with many of the protests to the election and I'm sure we're going to have a pretty raucous inauguration as well. I think 89 had a good quote in another thread about college campuses - "We want everyone to look different and think the same". Diversity doesn't seem to extend to thought, and that's a big issue on the liberal side of things in today's politics.

I saw that quote. That perfectly sums it up. When I was in a punk band, back in college, we got called out b/c we didn't look punk. Jeans and tshirts. Our drummer made the astute remark that he didn't want to "be an individual, just like everyone else."

When the drummer is the band intellectual...

[UNI88]

All other things aside, the "Identity" thing is not what sunk Hillary Clinton. You are talking about a candidate who made a horrible decision a few years prior in deciding to have a private e mail server. As a result she spent much of the campaign under FBI investigation then had that issue re-surface shortly before election day.

I mean just think about it. A major Party candidate under FBI investigation for possibly mishandling classified information. It was a totally unprecedented scenario.

Had Obama been able to run for a third term he would've blown Trump out worse than he blew Romney and McCain out.

It wasn't the "identity" thing that defeated Clinton. It was other aspects of her situation.

So you could say that Donk voters who overlooked Hlllary's flaws and voted for her anyway share some of the blame for Trump's election with the Conks who voted for him?

[SDHornet]

All other things aside, the "Identity" thing is not what sunk Hillary Clinton. You are talking about a candidate who made a horrible decision a few years prior in deciding to have a private e mail server. As a result she spent much of the campaign under FBI investigation then had that issue re-surface shortly before election day.

I mean just think about it. A major Party candidate under FBI investigation for possibly mishandling classified information. It was a totally unprecedented scenario.

Had Obama been able to run for a third term he would've blown Trump out worse than he blew Romney and McCain out.

It wasn't the "identity" thing that defeated Clinton. It was other aspects of her situation.

Yup, all those union households in the Rust Belt that voted Trump were definitely thinking about Hilldogs email server and not the fact that the Donk agenda has been sending their jobs overseas. Nailed it again JSO.

[SDHornet]

Agree with kalm/Chizzy about how the leftists hijacked the liberal label. Liberals and progressives (leftists/alt-left) are not the same. But it has been very entertaining seeing the leftists cannibalize the liberals because they actually want/try to debate the issues rather than yell down opposing views. Oh the irony.

[kalm]

All other things aside, the "Identity" thing is not what sunk Hillary Clinton. You are talking about a candidate who made a horrible decision a few years prior in deciding to have a private e mail server. As a result she spent much of the campaign under FBI investigation then had that issue re-surface shortly before election day.

I mean just think about it. A major Party candidate under FBI investigation for possibly mishandling classified information. It was a totally unprecedented scenario.

Had Obama been able to run for a third term he would've blown Trump out worse than he blew Romney and McCain out.

It wasn't the "identity" thing that defeated Clinton. It was other aspects of her situation.

Yup, all those union households in the Rust Belt that voted Trump were definitely thinking about Hilldogs email server and not the fact that the Donk agenda has been sending their jobs overseas. Nailed it again JSO.

Globalism does not sell to the middle class.

Identity politics and the email scandal did not sink Hillary. Trump's pussy grabbing came out in the fall.

Personality and elitism is what sunk Hillary.

[Chizzang]

All other things aside, the "Identity" thing is not what sunk Hillary Clinton. You are talking about a candidate who made a horrible decision a few years prior in deciding to have a private e mail server. As a result she spent much of the campaign under FBI investigation then had that issue re-surface shortly before election day.

I mean just think about it. A major Party candidate under FBI investigation for possibly mishandling classified information. It was a totally unprecedented scenario.

Had Obama been able to run for a third term he would've blown Trump out worse than he blew Romney and McCain out.

It wasn't the "identity" thing that defeated Clinton. It was other aspects of her situation.

Yup, all those union households in the Rust Belt that voted Trump were definitely thinking about Hilldogs email server and not the fact that the Donk agenda has been sending their jobs overseas. Nailed it again JSO.

So... The Donk agenda has been sending Rust Belt Jobs over seas...?
You seem to be confusing Wall Street Profit driven Capitalism with "Donk Agenda"

I'll explain how this works if you'd like

[HI54UNI]

All other things aside, the "Identity" thing is not what sunk Hillary Clinton. You are talking about a candidate who made a horrible decision a few years prior in deciding to have a private e mail server. As a result she spent much of the campaign under FBI investigation then had that issue re-surface shortly before election day.

I mean just think about it. A major Party candidate under FBI investigation for possibly mishandling classified information. It was a totally unprecedented scenario.

Had Obama been able to run for a third term he would've blown Trump out worse than he blew Romney and McCain out.

It wasn't the "identity" thing that defeated Clinton. It was other aspects of her situation.

Like the economy.

[kalm]

Yup, all those union households in the Rust Belt that voted Trump were definitely thinking about Hilldogs email server and not the fact that the Donk agenda has been sending their jobs overseas. Nailed it again JSO.

So... The Donk agenda has been sending Rust Belt Jobs over seas...?
You seem to be confusing Wall Street Profit driven Capitalism with "Donk Agenda"

I'll explain how this works if you'd like

Who signed Nafta into law again? Which administration was pushing the TPP?

I forget...

[Chizzang]

All other things aside, the "Identity" thing is not what sunk Hillary Clinton. You are talking about a candidate who made a horrible decision a few years prior in deciding to have a private e mail server. As a result she spent much of the campaign under FBI investigation then had that issue re-surface shortly before election day.

I mean just think about it. A major Party candidate under FBI investigation for possibly mishandling classified information. It was a totally unprecedented scenario.

Had Obama been able to run for a third term he would've blown Trump out worse than he blew Romney and McCain out.

It wasn't the "identity" thing that defeated Clinton. It was other aspects of her situation.

Like the economy.

You mean Americas absolutely BOOMING economy ..?
That's been on a 12 year UP TREND

Corporate America has never made more money than it has in the last decade (EVER)

[Chizzang]

Yes,
Kansas and Arkansas and Ohio and Pennsylvania have sh!t economies (go figure)
and constitute 15 % of the American population
but can swing an entire election

The Economy ^

For 80% of America
The Economy is absolutely EXPLODING

[kalm]

Yes,
Kansas and Arkansas and Ohio and Pennsylvania have sh!t economies (go figure)
and constitute 15 % of the American population
but can swing an entire election

The Economy ^

For 80% of America
The Economy is absolutely EXPLODING

I'd like to see some stats.

Every generation expects to have the same standard of living as their parents if not better. I (admittedly anecdotally) see 20 somethings with massive college debt that doesn't match their earning potential, living at home, hoping for minimum wage increases.

[Chizzang]

1 Washington 76.54 1 4 3
2 California 73.78 2 26 2
3 Utah 73.77 5 1 4
4 Massachusetts 73.34 4 29 1
5 D.C. 67.09 3 6 13
6 Colorado 66.37 15 3 5
7 Oregon 65.65 6 9 10
8 New Hampshire 62.52 17 10 7
9 Maryland 60.97 18 28 6
10 Delaware 59.82 10 20 15
11 Idaho 58.20 21 2 19
12 Michigan 57.86 23 33 8
13 Virginia 57.51 9 18 23
14 Arizona 57.35 16 24 14
15 North Carolina 57.34 24 11 12
16 Connecticut 57.25 12 45 9
17 Minnesota 56.56 20 16 17
18 Georgia 55.99 8 21 29
19 New York 55.66 7 44 18
20 Texas 55.40 19 15 21
21 New Jersey 55.13 11 47 11
22 Florida 54.48 13 12 30
23 Missouri 50.17 34 19 24
24 South Carolina 49.78 14 23 41
25 Wisconsin 49.16 33 14 31
26 Vermont 49.10 35 31 22
27 Nebraska 49.00 36 7 34
28 Indiana 48.89 26 25 35
29 Nevada 48.11 22 27 40
30 Pennsylvania 47.73 25 41 27
31 Montana 47.66 46 13 25
32 South Dakota 47.09 39 5 39
33 Iowa 47.01 31 22 37
34 Illinois 46.93 27 43 26
35 Tennessee 46.40 29 17 44
36 Rhode Island 46.02 40 40 20
37 Ohio 45.67 30 42 28
38 Kansas 44.25 43 34 32
39 Hawaii 43.71 38 30 38
40 New Mexico 42.08 44 51 16
41 Alabama 41.58 32 38 43
42 North Dakota 41.11 51 8 36
43 Wyoming 39.40 47 32 45
44 Kentucky 38.94 28 46 48
45 Maine 38.91 37 36 47
46 Alaska 37.68 50 39 33
47 Oklahoma 37.11 49 37 42
48 Arkansas 35.88 45 35 50
49 Mississippi 34.99 41 48 46
50 Louisiana 33.22 42 50 49
51 West Virginia 28.14 48 49 51

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-t ... ies/21697/

[kalm]

1 Washington 76.54 1 4 3
2 California 73.78 2 26 2
3 Utah 73.77 5 1 4
4 Massachusetts 73.34 4 29 1
5 D.C. 67.09 3 6 13
6 Colorado 66.37 15 3 5
7 Oregon 65.65 6 9 10
8 New Hampshire 62.52 17 10 7
9 Maryland 60.97 18 28 6
10 Delaware 59.82 10 20 15
11 Idaho 58.20 21 2 19
12 Michigan 57.86 23 33 8
13 Virginia 57.51 9 18 23
14 Arizona 57.35 16 24 14
15 North Carolina 57.34 24 11 12
16 Connecticut 57.25 12 45 9
17 Minnesota 56.56 20 16 17
18 Georgia 55.99 8 21 29
19 New York 55.66 7 44 18
20 Texas 55.40 19 15 21
21 New Jersey 55.13 11 47 11
22 Florida 54.48 13 12 30
23 Missouri 50.17 34 19 24
24 South Carolina 49.78 14 23 41
25 Wisconsin 49.16 33 14 31
26 Vermont 49.10 35 31 22
27 Nebraska 49.00 36 7 34
28 Indiana 48.89 26 25 35
29 Nevada 48.11 22 27 40
30 Pennsylvania 47.73 25 41 27
31 Montana 47.66 46 13 25
32 South Dakota 47.09 39 5 39
33 Iowa 47.01 31 22 37
34 Illinois 46.93 27 43 26
35 Tennessee 46.40 29 17 44
36 Rhode Island 46.02 40 40 20
37 Ohio 45.67 30 42 28
38 Kansas 44.25 43 34 32
39 Hawaii 43.71 38 30 38
40 New Mexico 42.08 44 51 16
41 Alabama 41.58 32 38 43
42 North Dakota 41.11 51 8 36
43 Wyoming 39.40 47 32 45
44 Kentucky 38.94 28 46 48
45 Maine 38.91 37 36 47
46 Alaska 37.68 50 39 33
47 Oklahoma 37.11 49 37 42
48 Arkansas 35.88 45 35 50
49 Mississippi 34.99 41 48 46
50 Louisiana 33.22 42 50 49
51 West Virginia 28.14 48 49 51

https://wallethub.com/edu/states-with-t ... ies/21697/

Thanks for the effort but that doesn't exactly explain how 80% of the economy is exploding. Who's it exploding for? Where are the gains going?

The fact that Michigan is 12th and went for Trump also doesn't help your argument.

[Chizzang]

Thanks for the effort but that doesn't exactly explain how 80% of the economy is exploding. Who's it exploding for? Where are the gains going?

The fact that Michigan is 12th and went for Trump also doesn't help your argument.

Slow down there before you hurt yourself

80% of America's population lives in States with strong or booming economies...

West Virginia and Arkansas et. al. can move an electoral college
even though they constitute a marginal portion of the population



That's all I'm saying
The states that swung the election indeed have sh!t economies

But America does NOT have a sh!t economy
America is booming

[kalm]

Thanks for the effort but that doesn't exactly explain how 80% of the economy is exploding. Who's it exploding for? Where are the gains going?

The fact that Michigan is 12th and went for Trump also doesn't help your argument.

Slow down there before you hurt yourself

80% of America's population lives in States with strong or booming economies...

West Virginia and Arkansas et. al. can move an electoral college
even though they constitute a marginal portion of the population



That's all I'm saying
The states that swung the election indeed have sh!t economies

But America does NOT have a sh!t economy
America is booming

Yeah...Washington, Utah, Idaho, New Hampshire, Oregon...big population states!

[Chizzang]

Slow down there before you hurt yourself

80% of America's population lives in States with strong or booming economies...

West Virginia and Arkansas et. al. can move an electoral college
even though they constitute a marginal portion of the population



That's all I'm saying
The states that swung the election indeed have sh!t economies

But America does NOT have a sh!t economy
America is booming

Yeah...Washington, Utah, Idaho, New Hampshire, Oregon...big population states!

California No. 2
NY and Texas are in the top 20
That's 40% of the US Population right there

[Grizalltheway]

Like the economy.

You mean Americas absolutely BOOMING economy ..?
That's been on a 12 year UP TREND

Corporate America has never made more money than it has in the last decade (EVER)

12 years? I don't think so, Tim.

[kalm]

You mean Americas absolutely BOOMING economy ..?
That's been on a 12 year UP TREND

Corporate America has never made more money than it has in the last decade (EVER)

12 years? I don't think so, Tim.

He also evaded my question of where the gains are going (while the debt continues to grow).

Edit: he did mention corporate America. Sorry Cleets!

[AZGrizFan]

Thanks for the effort but that doesn't exactly explain how 80% of the economy is exploding. Who's it exploding for? Where are the gains going?

The fact that Michigan is 12th and went for Trump also doesn't help your argument.

Slow down there before you hurt yourself

80% of America's population lives in States with strong or booming economies...

West Virginia and Arkansas et. al. can move an electoral college
even though they constitute a marginal portion of the population



That's all I'm saying
The states that swung the election indeed have sh!t economies

But America does NOT have a sh!t economy
America is booming

Booming. 1.5% GDP growth is the new norm, apparently.

[Chizzang]

You mean Americas absolutely BOOMING economy ..?
That's been on a 12 year UP TREND

Corporate America has never made more money than it has in the last decade (EVER)

12 years? I don't think so, Tim.

When was the crash 2008..?
I just moved back to Seattle at the crash
(Note: Seattle didn't crash)

[Grizalltheway]

12 years? I don't think so, Tim.

When was the crash 2008..?
I just moved back to Seattle at the crash
(Note: Seattle didn't crash)

The recession was officially from late 2007 to mid 2009. And the recovery was anemic at best for the first few years.

[CID1990]

Thanks for the effort but that doesn't exactly explain how 80% of the economy is exploding. Who's it exploding for? Where are the gains going?

The fact that Michigan is 12th and went for Trump also doesn't help your argument.

Slow down there before you hurt yourself

80% of America's population lives in States with strong or booming economies...

West Virginia and Arkansas et. al. can move an electoral college
even though they constitute a marginal portion of the population



That's all I'm saying
The states that swung the election indeed have sh!t economies

But America does NOT have a sh!t economy
America is booming

Um..arent you the guy who equates "the economy" with "Wall Street"?

In those terms, the economy IS booming-

But not for the middle class - who are increasingly priced out of housing where the jobs are, who have had stagnant wages against the cost of living for over 30 years, and who just got another gift from the government in overall increased Healthcare costs, who are about to get another gift in tax reforms that won't benefit them

Yes 80% of the economy is booming for that portion of the population that is invested in it

(that's less than 50% of the people)

[JohnStOnge]

All other things aside, the "Identity" thing is not what sunk Hillary Clinton. You are talking about a candidate who made a horrible decision a few years prior in deciding to have a private e mail server. As a result she spent much of the campaign under FBI investigation then had that issue re-surface shortly before election day.

I mean just think about it. A major Party candidate under FBI investigation for possibly mishandling classified information. It was a totally unprecedented scenario.

Had Obama been able to run for a third term he would've blown Trump out worse than he blew Romney and McCain out.

It wasn't the "identity" thing that defeated Clinton. It was other aspects of her situation.

Yup, all those union households in the Rust Belt that voted Trump were definitely thinking about Hilldogs email server and not the fact that the Donk agenda has been sending their jobs overseas. Nailed it again JSO.

Hornet, he would not have beaten Obama in Michigan, Pennsylvania, or Wisconsin. No way.

And BTW, the exit poll estimates are that Clinton beat Trump among Union households by 53% to 40% in Michigian, by 53% to 43% in Wisconsin. For some reason they don't have estimates for Pennsylvania. But the Michigan and Wisconsin estimated margins for Clinton among Union Households were actually slightly larger then the national margin. The national margin for Clinton among Union Households was 51% to 42%.

Just another example of the mythology surrounding the Trump win. You know, like the myth that it was the economy.

Wisconsin is particularly interesting. The estimate is that Clinton won Union households by 53% to 43%. But Trump won NON Union households by 52% to 44%.

[Chizzang]

Slow down there before you hurt yourself

80% of America's population lives in States with strong or booming economies...

West Virginia and Arkansas et. al. can move an electoral college
even though they constitute a marginal portion of the population



That's all I'm saying
The states that swung the election indeed have sh!t economies

But America does NOT have a sh!t economy
America is booming

Um..arent you the guy who equates "the economy" with "Wall Street"?

In those terms, the economy IS booming-

But not for the middle class - who are increasingly priced out of housing where the jobs are, who have had stagnant wages against the cost of living for over 30 years, and who just got another gift from the government in overall increased Healthcare costs, who are about to get another gift in tax reforms that won't benefit them

Yes 80% of the economy is booming for that portion of the population that is invested in it

(that's less than 50% of the people)

Yes,
I define the "economy" as Wall Street
Because according to US Corporations Wall Street is the ONLY THING that matters
Until that changes (and that won't change) I stand on that measuring stick

And all those words up there you posted about stagnant wages vs. cost of living
and housing prices skyrocketing in job markets
all I have to say about that is what EVERY Conservative Republican and Ayn Rand says

Work harder and Boot Straps
We're too fat and too lazy

[CID1990]

Um..arent you the guy who equates "the economy" with "Wall Street"?

In those terms, the economy IS booming-

But not for the middle class - who are increasingly priced out of housing where the jobs are, who have had stagnant wages against the cost of living for over 30 years, and who just got another gift from the government in overall increased Healthcare costs, who are about to get another gift in tax reforms that won't benefit them

Yes 80% of the economy is booming for that portion of the population that is invested in it

(that's less than 50% of the people)

Yes,
I define the "economy" as Wall Street
Because according to US Corporations Wall Street is the ONLY THING that matters
Until that changes (and that won't change) I stand on that measuring stick

And all those words up there you posted about stagnant wages vs. cost of living
and housing prices skyrocketing in job markets
all I have to say about that is what EVERY Conservative Republican and Ayn Rand says

Work harder and Boot Straps
We're too fat and too lazy

I knew that was how you were quantifying it and that's why I brought it up-

You're being coy and misleading and frankly smug prick fits you better

Coy and misleading is klam's shtick and he's better at it than you