Сделаем Америку снова великой! Trump - Russia megathread

[Skjellyfetti]

IF the FBI's or NSA's intercepts of the Russian AMB's communications were part of an investigation into the Trump campaign, then there isn't one- but that's not the scandal I'm implying. I was correcting your reading of how things are supposed to work in theory, versus how they work in reality

Flynn was looked at AFTER the fact of his conversations with the Russian AMB - and at the time, there was no (public) talk of an investigation into Trump campaign collusion with the leaked hacking data. It was about whether or not an incoming administration member was talking about sanctions before he had the authority to. Now, it is being implied that Flynn's name was revealed as a part of the FBI investigation. The timing doesn't work- what does work is somebody using routine monitoring of a Russian official's communications as a fishing expedition, and that doesn't happen without bending (at best) the rules

The NSA intercepts weren't part of an investigation into the Trump campaign. They were part of foreign intelligence - which is why Flynn's name was masked.

It came to the attention of the FBI who requested it to be unmasked.

Perhaps it came to the attention of the White House and they forced the NSA to unmask. But, again... based on Comey and Rogers's testimony... that's not at all how it appears to have happened. Maybe Comey is back to being the "debil" in your eyes.

And then there's the actual leak.

Yeah, that's where any illegality rests.

Just look at Spicer's statement:

Michael Flynn was umasked and then illegally, his identity was leaked out to media outlets

He doesn't say Flynn's name was illegally unmasked. Only that it was illegally leaked to the media.

[CID1990]

IF the FBI's or NSA's intercepts of the Russian AMB's communications were part of an investigation into the Trump campaign, then there isn't one- but that's not the scandal I'm implying. I was correcting your reading of how things are supposed to work in theory, versus how they work in reality

Flynn was looked at AFTER the fact of his conversations with the Russian AMB - and at the time, there was no (public) talk of an investigation into Trump campaign collusion with the leaked hacking data. It was about whether or not an incoming administration member was talking about sanctions before he had the authority to. Now, it is being implied that Flynn's name was revealed as a part of the FBI investigation. The timing doesn't work- what does work is somebody using routine monitoring of a Russian official's communications as a fishing expedition, and that doesn't happen without bending (at best) the rules

The NSA intercepts weren't part of an investigation into the Trump campaign. They were part of foreign intelligence - which is why Flynn's name was masked.

It came to the attention of the FBI who requested it to be unmasked.

Perhaps it came to the attention of the White House and they forced the NSA to unmask. But, again... based on Comey and Rogers's testimony... that's not at all how it appears to have happened. Maybe Comey is back to being the "debil" in your eyes.

And then there's the actual leak.

Yeah, that's where any illegality rests.

Just look at Spicer's statement:

Michael Flynn was umasked and then illegally, his identity was leaked out to media outlets

He doesn't say Flynn's name was illegally unmasked. Only that it was illegally leaked to the media.

Comey has never been a bad guy in my eyes. I believe he testifies to what he knows honestly. And I have not suggested that any wrongdoing lies with him (except that the leaks may have happened through the FBI but I doubt it)

And I'll remind you that I have not said the unmasking was illegal-

I believe that the Flynn intercept was pointed out to the FBI (wink wink, guys) by someone in the NSA with the authority to know about it, even though the claim will be that the FBI was examining NSA intercepts of a Russian diplomat who talks to many Americans every day, and asked that the incidental be unmasked.

[Skjellyfetti]

I believe that the Flynn intercept was pointed out to the FBI (wink wink, guys) by someone in the NSA with the authority to know about it, even though the claim will be that the FBI was examining NSA intercepts of a Russian diplomat who talks to many Americans every day, and asked that the incidental be unmasked.

Well, I certainly agree with that. I think that is pretty likely.

But, also pretty far from what you originally claimed was the second major scandal here: that Susan Rice likely unmasked Flynn.

[CID1990]

I believe that the Flynn intercept was pointed out to the FBI (wink wink, guys) by someone in the NSA with the authority to know about it, even though the claim will be that the FBI was examining NSA intercepts of a Russian diplomat who talks to many Americans every day, and asked that the incidental be unmasked.

Well, I certainly agree with that. I think that is pretty likely.

But, also pretty far from what you originally claimed was the second major scandal here: that Susan Rice likely unmasked Flynn.

What I should have said was Susan Rice identified this particular intercept for unmasking for the FBI. If not her, it was Clapper but I don't think Clapper is that on top of things

Somebody on the natsec council is wrapped up in this, and it involves the specific scanning of incidental collections -

[Skjellyfetti]

Some more smoke regarding Kushner

Senate investigators plan to question Jared Kushner, President Trump’s son-in-law and a close adviser, as part of their broad inquiry into ties between Trump associates and Russian officials or others linked to the Kremlin, according to administration and congressional officials.

The White House Counsel’s Office was informed this month that the Senate Intelligence Committee, which is investigating Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election, wanted to question Mr. Kushner about meetings he arranged with the Russian ambassador, Sergey I. Kislyak, according to the government officials. The meetings, which took place during the transition, included a previously unreported sit-down with the head of Russia’s state-owned development bank.

Until now, the White House had acknowledged only an early December meeting between Mr. Kislyak and Mr. Kushner, which occurred at Trump Tower and was also attended by Michael T. Flynn, who would briefly serve as the national security adviser.

Later that month, though, Mr. Kislyak requested a second meeting, which Mr. Kushner asked a deputy to attend in his stead, officials said. At Mr. Kislyak’s request, Mr. Kushner later met with Sergey N. Gorkov, the chief of Vnesheconombank, which the United States placed on its sanctions list after President Vladimir V. Putin of Russia annexed Crimea and began meddling in Ukraine.

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/27/u ... l?referer=

Regarding the bolded part:

Vnesheconombank was busted in 2015 for running a spy ring out of their New York office.

Preet Bharara, who Trump just fired as US Attorney for the Southern District of New York, prosecuted Evgeny Buryakov of VEB for being SVR.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/ru ... iring-work


So, could just be another in a long line of perfectly innocent "coincidences"...

But, why would Kushner meet with an entity that is currently under sanctions and has been proven to be a SVR Rezidentura?

[Skjellyfetti]

Whelp, all meetings of the House Intelligence Committee are now cancelled... that investigation is probably over.

Up to the Senate now...

[CID1990]

None of that matters if the FBI doesn't come up with something.

Personally if there's something there I'd expect the professionals to have a better chance of uncovering it.

[Skjellyfetti]

Yeah, no doubt about it. It's ultimately up to Comey and the other agencies. As well as Rod Rosenstein... if he is ever confirmed.

[Skjellyfetti]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZaIcOnUQ4pI[/youtube]

[Skjellyfetti]

Originally in the liberal, Fake News Wall Street Journal. Didn't link because people would bitch about the paywall.

President Trump's former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn has reportedly told the FBI that he is willing to testify about the Trump campaign's potential ties to Russia, in exchange for immunity from prosecution, according to a Wall Street Journal report.

Flynn resigned in February, after it was reported that he misled White House staff on his interactions with Russia and had discussed sanctions with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak ahead of President Trump's inauguration.
The Journal reported, citing officials familiar with the matter, that the FBI and the House and Senate Intelligence committees that are investigating Russia's attempts to interfere in the U.S. election have not taken his lawyers up on the offer.

Flynn's lawyer said in a statement that “General Glynn certainly has a story to tell, and he very much wants to tell it, should the circumstances permit.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... r-immunity

[kalm]

Originally in the liberal, Fake News Wall Street Journal. Didn't link because people would bitch about the paywall.

President Trump's former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn has reportedly told the FBI that he is willing to testify about the Trump campaign's potential ties to Russia, in exchange for immunity from prosecution, according to a Wall Street Journal report.

Flynn resigned in February, after it was reported that he misled White House staff on his interactions with Russia and had discussed sanctions with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak ahead of President Trump's inauguration.
The Journal reported, citing officials familiar with the matter, that the FBI and the House and Senate Intelligence committees that are investigating Russia's attempts to interfere in the U.S. election have not taken his lawyers up on the offer.

Flynn's lawyer said in a statement that “General Glynn certainly has a story to tell, and he very much wants to tell it, should the circumstances permit.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing- ... r-immunity

Well, when youre granted immunity that means you more than likely committed a crime....

[CID1990]

Flynn accepted several thousands of dollars for speeches from Russian interests - that's known. I think it is almost certain that he didn't clear all of those with either administration, which would leave him vulnerable to prosecution. In fact I don't see how he couldn't be on the hook there.

On a related note, when you lie, it rightly makes people suspicious.

[GannonFan]

Flynn accepted several thousands of dollars for speeches from Russian interests - that's known. I think it is almost certain that he didn't clear all of those with either administration, which would leave him vulnerable to prosecution. In fact I don't see how he couldn't be on the hook there.

On a related note, when you lie, it rightly makes people suspicious.

If they're not careful, Flynn could get immunity for all of that crap, and then have nothing substantive to add to implicate others. So while they swing for the fences, they may let a guy like Flynn who has skirted the law apparently for several years in two different administrations get off scot free.

[Skjellyfetti]

If they're not careful, Flynn could get immunity for all of that crap, and then have nothing substantive to add to implicate others. So while they swing for the fences, they may let a guy like Flynn who has skirted the law apparently for several years in two different administrations get off scot free.

Ala Oliver North.

Hopefully they learned their lesson there. And, it seems they have as their response has been "thanks, but no thanks."

Flynn accepted several thousands of dollars for speeches from Russian interests - that's known. I think it is almost certain that he didn't clear all of those with either administration, which would leave him vulnerable to prosecution. In fact I don't see how he couldn't be on the hook there.

On a related note, when you lie, it rightly makes people suspicious.

Also, they also probably have him on failure to register as a foreign agent. It's very odd that he retroactively registered as a foreign agent after getting fired.... Trying to get his ducks in a row for immunity? I dunno.

[Chizzang]

On a related note, when you lie, it rightly makes people suspicious.

Not so fast there Tonto...
We have a president where 70% of his public tweets are described as "mostly false" or "entirely false"
and it's done nothing to his credibility around here

His beloved fans and supporters are pointing at everything BUT him...

[CAA Flagship]

On a related note, when you lie, it rightly makes people suspicious.

Not so fast there Tonto...
We have a president where 70% of his public tweets are described as "mostly false" or "entirely false"
and it's done nothing to his credibility around here

His beloved fans and supporters are pointing at everything BUT him...

70%?? Really??

[Grizalltheway]

Not so fast there Tonto...
We have a president where 70% of his public tweets are described as "mostly false" or "entirely false"
and it's done nothing to his credibility around here

His beloved fans and supporters are pointing at everything BUT him...

70%?? Really??

Yep. Just like 60% of Americans are happy with Trump.

[Chizzang]

Not so fast there Tonto...
We have a president where 70% of his public tweets are described as "mostly false" or "entirely false"
and it's done nothing to his credibility around here

His beloved fans and supporters are pointing at everything BUT him...

70%?? Really??

I love how we're prepared to argue the exact percentages of falsehoods

"frankly it's closer to half of his statements are false, 70% is way too high...
He's only lying half the time"

Ah... the new normal

[CAA Flagship]

70%?? Really??

I love how we're prepared to argue the exact percentages of falsehoods

"frankly it's closer to half of his statements are false, 70% is way too high...
He's only lying half the time"

Ah... the new normal

Still think that is a bit high, but at least you admit that 70% was ridiculous.

[CID1990]

If they're not careful, Flynn could get immunity for all of that crap, and then have nothing substantive to add to implicate others. So while they swing for the fences, they may let a guy like Flynn who has skirted the law apparently for several years in two different administrations get off scot free.

Ala Oliver North.

Hopefully they learned their lesson there. And, it seems they have as their response has been "thanks, but no thanks."

Flynn accepted several thousands of dollars for speeches from Russian interests - that's known. I think it is almost certain that he didn't clear all of those with either administration, which would leave him vulnerable to prosecution. In fact I don't see how he couldn't be on the hook there.

On a related note, when you lie, it rightly makes people suspicious.

Also, they also probably have him on failure to register as a foreign agent. It's very odd that he retroactively registered as a foreign agent after getting fired.... Trying to get his ducks in a row for immunity? I dunno.

That's what I'm referring to, in part.

[CID1990]

On a related note, when you lie, it rightly makes people suspicious.

Not so fast there Tonto...
We have a president where 70% of his public tweets are described as "mostly false" or "entirely false"
and it's done nothing to his credibility around here

His beloved fans and supporters are pointing at everything BUT him...

I was thinking of the opposition

(Regardless of whoever that may be at the time)

When you have demonstrably lied, your opponents are going to go after it

Flynn
Nunez
Clinton
Rice

And your friends are going to say it ain't a big deal

Truth is the only casualty

[Skjellyfetti]

Schiff's statement:






What a sharp contrast in the House Intelligence Committee.

The ranking Democrats is a former prosecutor who made his name prosecuting an FBI agent for espionage.

The chairman is a former dairy farmer.

[GannonFan]

Schiff's statement:






What a sharp contrast in the House Intelligence Committee.

The ranking Democrats is a former prosecutor who made his name prosecuting an FBI agent for espionage.

The chairman is a former dairy farmer.

Eh, he almost bungled that case against the FBI agent - wasn't until the 3rd trial that the conviction stuck, and even then the guy barely did anytime in prison. Granted, the dairy farmer looks like a doofus, but I wouldn't hold that against all dairy farmers.

[Skjellyfetti]

Since I have you here. Do you still think this is less of a story than Benghazi?

[GannonFan]

Since I have you here. Do you still think this is less of a story than Benghazi?

Don't know yet. Flynn's obviously guilty of stuff stretching back several years, but is that news that a political operative took money he shouldn't have? He's probably in a lot of company on both sides of the aisle in Washington. As to what else, eh, we'll see. The Russians releasing stolen information that Clinton was corrupt is hardly a revelation, she's been corrupt for years. It's why the Dems shouldn't have rigged their primary in the first place to guarantee she was the nominee. If it's just guys like Flynn who go down in this then it's not going to really resonate. Get someone with a Trump last name and it's a different game.