Example of the way Trump lies

[JohnStOnge]

Trump is full of crap but you and your new friends in the media are being misleading.

Pulse did not have an armed security guard. There was an off duty OPD officer working the security detail, and he was not inside the club. He responded to a call of shots fired (which any cop can tell you means that he was sitting in his car somewhere else) and then he got into a shootout with the bad guy at the front of the club, which caused the bad guy to retreat further inside and barricade himself with hostages.

The whole story isn't out yet but I'm willing to go in 80% already that this off duty OPD officer did not arrive and engage the shooter until most of the 49 we already dead or dying. I've worked a million of those details if I've worked one, and that officer was just the first responder- he wasn't in any position to surprise the shooter.

JSO trying make a case out of nothing.

And let's not forget...some people go to clubs and do not drink much...or don't drink at all.

What if 5 or 10 of them had guns and had a clear shot at the perp early in the event?

Instead, a whole bunch of folks make the assumption that the people carrying guns would have been drunk off their ass, incapable of holding their liquor, and shooting bullets everywhere. What a load of bigoted crap.

If I'm wrong about the security guard I'm wrong about the security guard. But I'm not making a case out of nothing. The point is that he lied. Again. It would be ridiculous to argue that he was talking about clubs having armed security guards when he made the statements he made in that Youtube video.

He lies constantly. WAY worse than even Hillary in that regard. Perhaps the worst ever.

[Skjellyfetti]

The off duty police officer was steps from the entrance dealing with a fake ID perp when the shots began. And he tried to engage the shooter almost immediately before realizing he was outgunned and calling for backup.

He wasn't sitting in his cop car eating donuts (though, "any cop can tell you" that )

We'll see- since the first reports were verbatim that he "responded to a report of shots fired...."

That's not consistent at all with your description- but Im sure we'll get a detailed graphic soon from CNN -

showing how many of those 49 were already dead or dying before Roscoe Right Outside The Door engaged him



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No, the verbatim is that "he responded to shots fired".

http://www.cityoforlando.net/police/pul ... 16-update/

He was in the parking lot of the club when the shots started. The parking lot is not very big at all. Maybe 10-15 spots.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pul ... story.html

He engaged Mateen when he was still in the entrance... and, then realizing he was outgunned... he retreated and called for backup. They arrived 2 minutes later.





Yes, you're right. All of the information could be wrong that we have so far. Maybe Gruler was lying about his account and was getting a handjob in his squad car when the shots started. Who knows.


But, the point is that you're the one jumping to conclusions saying things like "he was sitting in his car somewhere else."

[CID1990]

We'll see- since the first reports were verbatim that he "responded to a report of shots fired...."

That's not consistent at all with your description- but Im sure we'll get a detailed graphic soon from CNN -

showing how many of those 49 were already dead or dying before Roscoe Right Outside The Door engaged him



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, the verbatim is that "he responded to shots fired".

http://www.cityoforlando.net/police/pul ... 16-update/

He was in the parking lot of the club when the shots started. The parking lot is not very big at all. Maybe 10-15 spots.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/pul ... story.html

He engaged Mateen when he was still in the entrance... and, then realizing he was outgunned... he retreated and called for backup. They arrived 2 minutes later.





Yes, you're right. All of the information could be wrong that we have so far. Maybe Gruler was lying about his account and was getting a handjob in his squad car when the shots started. Who knows.


But, the point is that you're the one jumping to conclusions saying things like "he was sitting in his car somewhere else."

Like I said- we'll see.

The shooter killed 49 people. And the paid off duty cop who was right outside the door must have just thought it was the Chinese new year or something and kept on carding teenagers while the body count went up?

This ex cop will go right on assuming that the off duty officer fucked up until proven definitively otherwise- because nobody is going to start shooting, go through at least one reload, and kill 49 people before a cop right outside the door decides to take action. He either wasn't where he said he was when the shooting started, or he was a fucking coward and should turn in his kit for lying

good thing there's no duty to protect- otherwise we'd be seeing Mr Right Outside The Door on a polygraph


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JohnStOnge]

I know you all have been waiting with baited breath for FactCheck.org's assessment of Trump's speech this week. You'll be shocked to find they say he made a bunch of false statements.

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/06/trumps ... character/

Donald Trump’s once delayed, and much anticipated, speech on Hillary Clinton’s character, included numerous false and misleading statements:
Trump falsely claimed that U.S. Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens “was left helpless to die as Hillary Clinton soundly slept in her bed.” Two emails from Clinton show that she was awake after it was learned that Stevens had died in the attack on the diplomatic facility in Benghazi.
Trump misleadingly claimed that Clinton “accepted $58,000 in jewelry from the government of Brunei when she was secretary of state.” He didn’t mention that the gift was accepted on behalf of the United States, and that it was transferred to the General Services Administration.
Trump claimed without any evidence that Clinton “wants to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to settle Middle Eastern refugees in the United States.” The numbers don’t add up. The total refugee budget was $1.67 billion in fiscal 2016, so it is unlikely that Clinton could add “hundreds of billions” to the budget for refugee assistance.
Trump overstated his case when he claimed the U.S. “trade deficit with China soared 40 percent during Hillary Clinton’s time as secretary of state.” It went up 17 percent, and we note that trade is under the purview of the Commerce Department, not the State Department.
Trump blamed Clinton for the “disastrous strategy of announcing our departure from Iraq, handing large parts of the country over to ISIS and the ISIS killers.” The departure date was set by President George W. Bush. President Obama made the ultimate call to keep the scheduled departure date, not Clinton.
Trump falsely claimed that Clinton would “end virtually all immigration enforcement and thus create totally open borders for the United States.” Clinton supported a Senate immigration bill that would create a path to citizenship for those in the country illegally, but it also would have included large investments in border security.
Trump falsely claimed that the private server that Clinton used as secretary of state “was easily hacked by foreign governments.” Attempts were made to hack into Clinton’s server, but the identity of the hackers has not been determined and there has been no evidence to date that any of them were successful.
Trump falsely claimed that “Hillary Clinton’s State Department approved the transfer of 20 percent of America’s uranium holdings to Russia.” The transfer was approved by a committee headed by the Treasury Department and made up of nine voting members throughout government, including one from the State Department.
Trump claimed he was opposed to the Iraq war “before the war ever started.” There is no evidence of that.
Trump wrongly said that “real wages for our workers have not been raised for 18 years.” Average weekly earnings for production and non-supervisory employees are up 10 percent, adjusted for inflation and seasonal factors, over that time period.
Trump described the North American Free Trade Agreement as “Bill Clinton’s disastrous and totally disastrous NAFTA.” President Clinton signed the legislation to implement NAFTA, but the agreement itself was negotiated and signed by President George H. W. Bush.

[BDKJMU]

JSO might want to rethink CNN to do his "fact checking" as he's done several times on this thread..
CNN fact checkers caught lying about Trump's statements in speech...
http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism ... e-frankel/

[Skjellyfetti]

And the paid off duty cop who was right outside the door must have just thought it was the Chinese new year or something and kept on carding teenagers while the body count went up?

No.

He responded when he heard shots fired. Was outgunned and disengaged and called for backup. Seems this is standard practice. But, I'm not a cop. What should have have done? Rambo'd his way through the club?

nobody is going to start shooting, go through at least one reload, and kill 49 people before a cop right outside the door decides to take action. He either wasn't where he said he was when the shooting started, or he was a fucking coward and should turn in his kit for lying

Again. Where are you getting the idea that Mateen killed 49 people before he decided to take action?

[YoUDeeMan]

I know you all have been waiting with baited breath for FactCheck.org's assessment of Trump's speech this week. You'll be shocked to find they say he made a bunch of false statements.

http://www.factcheck.org/2016/06/trumps ... character/

Donald Trump’s once delayed, and much anticipated, speech on Hillary Clinton’s character, included numerous false and misleading statements:
Trump falsely claimed that U.S. Ambassador to Libya Chris Stevens “was left helpless to die as Hillary Clinton soundly slept in her bed.” Two emails from Clinton show that she was awake after it was learned that Stevens had died in the attack on the diplomatic facility in Benghazi.
Trump misleadingly claimed that Clinton “accepted $58,000 in jewelry from the government of Brunei when she was secretary of state.” He didn’t mention that the gift was accepted on behalf of the United States, and that it was transferred to the General Services Administration.
Trump claimed without any evidence that Clinton “wants to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to settle Middle Eastern refugees in the United States.” The numbers don’t add up. The total refugee budget was $1.67 billion in fiscal 2016, so it is unlikely that Clinton could add “hundreds of billions” to the budget for refugee assistance.
Trump overstated his case when he claimed the U.S. “trade deficit with China soared 40 percent during Hillary Clinton’s time as secretary of state.” It went up 17 percent, and we note that trade is under the purview of the Commerce Department, not the State Department.
Trump blamed Clinton for the “disastrous strategy of announcing our departure from Iraq, handing large parts of the country over to ISIS and the ISIS killers.” The departure date was set by President George W. Bush. President Obama made the ultimate call to keep the scheduled departure date, not Clinton.
Trump falsely claimed that Clinton would “end virtually all immigration enforcement and thus create totally open borders for the United States.” Clinton supported a Senate immigration bill that would create a path to citizenship for those in the country illegally, but it also would have included large investments in border security.
Trump falsely claimed that the private server that Clinton used as secretary of state “was easily hacked by foreign governments.” Attempts were made to hack into Clinton’s server, but the identity of the hackers has not been determined and there has been no evidence to date that any of them were successful.
Trump falsely claimed that “Hillary Clinton’s State Department approved the transfer of 20 percent of America’s uranium holdings to Russia.” The transfer was approved by a committee headed by the Treasury Department and made up of nine voting members throughout government, including one from the State Department.
Trump claimed he was opposed to the Iraq war “before the war ever started.” There is no evidence of that.
Trump wrongly said that “real wages for our workers have not been raised for 18 years.” Average weekly earnings for production and non-supervisory employees are up 10 percent, adjusted for inflation and seasonal factors, over that time period.
Trump described the North American Free Trade Agreement as “Bill Clinton’s disastrous and totally disastrous NAFTA.” President Clinton signed the legislation to implement NAFTA, but the agreement itself was negotiated and signed by President George H. W. Bush.

You are still an idiot.

How can this be a negative fact check:

"Trump claimed he was opposed to the Iraq war “before the war ever started.” There is no evidence of that."



And Trump was correct...Bill Clinton signed legislation to implement NAFTA. Doesn't matter who negotiated it. How in the world can anyone deny that? Anyone can negotiate anything...but the person who signs on the dotted line for our laws is the one who is responsible for whatever they are signing.

JSO, are you are one of those, "We have to pass it to understand it" idiots?

As far as the wages statement, why does the fact check person go into a small qualitative part of the definition of wages to make the statement false?

Oh, that's right...they are using the stats that favor them and claiming (falsely) that Trump is lying.

I could go on, but once again, your bluster about Trump's lies has been laid to waste. Hillary lies, people die. Trump lies, people get there noses bent out of shape. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Oh, Hillary's supporters keep lying about Trump. And Hillary continues to let them...just as she did when her people started the Birther thing. But hey, JSO doesn't care...his verison of justice is that the ends justify the means.

Well, JSO...with Hillary picking the Supreme Court justices...you are certainly going to see how far the Left will go to justify their means.

[JohnStOnge]

How can this be a negative fact check:

"Trump claimed he was opposed to the Iraq war “before the war ever started.” There is no evidence of that."

He is on audio with Howard Stern saying, prior to the start of the war, "I guess so" when asked if he favored invading Iraq. He's also said he said it in an interview and that he would provide the documentation but never has done it.

I guess it's true that one can never say someone DIDN'T say something. I can say that I knew the World Trade Center would be flown into by airplanes before it happened and no one can prove I didn't say it. But, again, we have Trump on Audio in this exchange with Howard Stern prior to the invasion:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i60VP_W16CU[/youtube]

I'll add that I interpret him saying he wished we'd have done it correctly the first time as meaning he thinks George H. W. Bush should've taken out Saddam after the first Gulf War. Now here he is pretending that he KNEW all along that it would destabilize things. He said this during the February 13 debate:

I'm the only one on this stage that said, ‘Do not go into Iraq. Nobody else on this stage said that. And I said it loud and strong.

Right. He said it "loud and strong" but nobody can find any evidence that he said it at all and he can't after saying that he would, provide such evidence. That in the context of that statement prior to the war to Howard Stern.

He's lying Cluck.

And Trump was correct...Bill Clinton signed legislation to implement NAFTA. Doesn't matter who negotiated it. How in the world can anyone deny that? Anyone can negotiate anything...but the person who signs on the dotted line for our laws is the one who is responsible for whatever they are signing.

George H. W. Bush negotiated AND signed the treaty. Both Houses of Congress voted to ratify it. I guess you could say that Clinton, the brand new President, could have vetoed the ratification. But calling it "Bill Clinton's" treaty is lying. It was clearly George H. W. Bush's treaty.

You're not being objective, Cluck. For some reason you've bought into the Trump crap and you're doing whatever you need to to rationalize away the obvious. The guy lies all the time. Or I guess you could say he spews false information all the time. Like with NAFTA, for instance, it could just be that he's so clueless that he didn't even realize it was George H. W. Bush's treaty.

[JohnStOnge]

This morning on CNN's Reliable Sources the panel was discussing the fertile ground fact checkers are finding in Trump's speech ripping on Hillary. Just absolutely loaded with inaccurate statements. But what really got me is that they had Trump surrogate Jeffery Lord on as a member of the panel and he didn't even attempt to argue against the premise that a bunch of what Trump said is false.

Instead, in referring to Trump supporters, he said, "They don't care." Then he went on to try to change the subject as Trump surrogates routinely do. Can't really defend what Trump says. Change the subject. That or claim he didn't say what he clearly said or argue that what he said isn't what he meant.

You can see the discussion at http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/06/26 ... peless.cnn . Recommend you view it.

Well...he's right about that. We've got some pretty good examples of that on this very board.

[houndawg]

The off duty police officer was steps from the entrance dealing with a fake ID perp when the shots began. And he tried to engage the shooter almost immediately before realizing he was outgunned and calling for backup.

He wasn't sitting in his cop car eating donuts (though, "any cop can tell you" that )

We'll see- since the first reports were verbatim that he "responded to a report of shots fired...."

That's not consistent at all with your description- but Im sure we'll get a detailed graphic soon from CNN -

showing how many of those 49 were already dead or dying before Roscoe Right Outside The Door engaged him



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is a sense of butthurt in the Force, obi-wan...

[houndawg]

And the paid off duty cop who was right outside the door must have just thought it was the Chinese new year or something and kept on carding teenagers while the body count went up?

No.

He responded when he heard shots fired. Was outgunned and disengaged and called for backup. Seems this is standard practice. But, I'm not a cop. What should have have done? Rambo'd his way through the club?

nobody is going to start shooting, go through at least one reload, and kill 49 people before a cop right outside the door decides to take action. He either wasn't where he said he was when the shooting started, or he was a **** coward and should turn in his kit for lying

Again. Where are you getting the idea that Mateen killed 49 people before he decided to take action?

To disengage he had to first be engaged. I guess they both missed.

[JohnStOnge]

Guys, all the stuff about whether there was an armed security guard or not is secondary. The main point is that Trump lied about what he was said. Again, this is what he initially said:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYEi3Ec9FGc[/youtube]

Watch that video and then note that he later said he was "obviously" talking about having additional armed security guards in nightclubs:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... t-additio/

He was lying when he said he was talking about additional security guards or employees people. THAT is what's obvious. He was lying. Again. He does that kind of thing repeatedly.

[YoUDeeMan]

Guys, all the stuff about whether there was an armed security guard or not is secondary. The main point is that Trump lied about what he was said. Again, this is what he initially said:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYEi3Ec9FGc[/youtube]

Watch that video and then note that he later said he was "obviously" talking about having additional armed security guards in nightclubs:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... t-additio/

He was lying when he said he was talking about additional security guards or employees people. THAT is what's obvious. He was lying. Again. He does that kind of thing repeatedly.

Why aren't you posting Hillary's lies?

Why aren't you posting Hillary's issues?

You aren't being objective...and you know it.

And, as Ivy pointed out, you are a fraud.

You've lost all credibility on this forum as you've become a clown speaker for Hillary. You have no ability to think clearly or rationally.

[GannonFan]

Guys, all the stuff about whether there was an armed security guard or not is secondary. The main point is that Trump lied about what he was said. Again, this is what he initially said:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYEi3Ec9FGc[/youtube]

Watch that video and then note that he later said he was "obviously" talking about having additional armed security guards in nightclubs:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... t-additio/

He was lying when he said he was talking about additional security guards or employees people. THAT is what's obvious. He was lying. Again. He does that kind of thing repeatedly.

Why aren't you posting Hillary's lies?

Why aren't you posting Hillary's issues?

You aren't being objective...and you know it.

And, as Ivy pointed out, you are a fraud.

You've lost all credibility on this forum as you've become a clown speaker for Hillary. You have no ability to think clearly or rationally.

Was that something that he could've have lost in the first place?

[Ibanez]

Guys, all the stuff about whether there was an armed security guard or not is secondary. The main point is that Trump lied about what he was said. Again, this is what he initially said:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYEi3Ec9FGc[/youtube]

Watch that video and then note that he later said he was "obviously" talking about having additional armed security guards in nightclubs:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... t-additio/

He was lying when he said he was talking about additional security guards or employees people. THAT is what's obvious. He was lying. Again. He does that kind of thing repeatedly.

Why aren't you posting Hillary's lies?

Why aren't you posting Hillary's issues?

You aren't being objective...and you know it.

And, as Ivy pointed out, you are a fraud.

You've lost all credibility on this forum as you've become a clown speaker for Hillary. You have no ability to think clearly or rationally.

His hypocrisy only goes so far

[JohnStOnge]

Why aren't you posting Hillary's lies?

Why aren't you posting Hillary's issues?

You aren't being objective...and you know it.

And, as Ivy pointed out, you are a fraud.

You've lost all credibility on this forum as you've become a clown speaker for Hillary. You have no ability to think clearly or rationally.

I didn't know anybody disagreed with the premise that Hillary is a liar.

And I AM being objective. There's a source that tracks the frequency of providing false information. The point is that we all know Hillary lies. That's the baseline.

What's astounding is that Trump lies with a far greater frequency than Hillary does.

I can point to at least some source to provide some support that statement. Can you point to a source to contradict it?

[JohnStOnge]

BTW, Cluck, see the video at http://www.cnn.com/videos/tv/2016/06/26 ... peless.cnn.

The host asks the lady from Politifact if it was fair to say that the Clinton speech was more accurate than the Trump speech. The lady answered that is IS fair to say that. And she provides some specific information that, if you were being objective, should persuade you.

If YOU were being objective you would come to grips with the fact that Trump spews false information with greater frequency than Clinton does. But you won't listen to people who actually make an effort to track such things because it does not comport with what you wish so fervently to believe.

Look, I am a Democrat Party hater. You should know that from seeing me comment for years on this board. The fact that even I cannot stomach Trump should tell you something. It's not because I am a shill for the leftist Liberal outlook. It's because Trump is SO bad that even the prospect of Hillary in the White House and, yes, HIllary appointing Supreme Court Justices represent the lesser of two evils.

[JohnStOnge]

Why aren't you posting Hillary's lies?

Why aren't you posting Hillary's issues?

You aren't being objective...and you know it.

And, as Ivy pointed out, you are a fraud.

You've lost all credibility on this forum as you've become a clown speaker for Hillary. You have no ability to think clearly or rationally.

Was that something that he could've have lost in the first place?

The problem for you guys is that you know that, though you can say stuff like that in an attempt at ad hominem argument, you know that I do have credibility because I can back up what I write. You know I understand how to interpret data, etc.

So all you can do is attempt to insult me.

[grizzaholic]

What's astounding is that Trump lies with a far greater frequency than Hillary does.

[JohnStOnge]

What's astounding is that Trump lies with a far greater frequency than Hillary does.

Do you have some basis for disputing that statement. I can point to the Politifact site which, as of now, has 61% of Trump's fact-checked statement as false (False or Pants on fire) vs. 27% for Clinton. Do you have some objective basis for disputing the implication or are you just going to say it's not true because you don't want to believe it?

Or do you have some basis for challenging the Politifact woman in that video saying that Clinton's speech on Trump was more accurate than Trumps speech on Clinton? Or is it just that you go in believing what you believe and contrary information be damned?

Do you think I LIKE having to say that the Republicans nominated someone who is even more dishonest than Hillary Clinton is?

[JohnStOnge]

Was watching CNN this morning and the show host had a Trump guy on. He shows a video clip of Trump saying that he got a letter from the NFL expressing concern over the debates conflicting with NFL games. Problem is, the NFL says it didn't do that. It didn't send Trump a letter.

So the Trump guy starts trying to change the subject and the host won't let him off the hook. Keeps bringing him back to the question of why Trump said the NFL sent him a letter expressing concern when the NFL says it didn't. Finally the guy says, "A source close to the NFL" told him that.

As though that somehow means he wasn't lying even if THAT is true. A source close to the NFL isn't the NFL. And a source close to the NFL telling him that is not the NFL sending him a letter. Plus I really doubt it's true. Odds are it's just something Trump pulled out of his ass while he was ranting like he very frequently does. Just makes stuff up. Odds are NOBODY told him that. He just made something up because he thought it'd sound good.

It's not that that particular lie is important per se. It's that it's just one more illustration of the fact that, as Tim Kaine said during his acceptance speech: "You can't believe one word that comes out of Donald Trump's mouth."

And, yes, he's worse about that than Hillary. At some point you Trumpites are going to have to get out of denial, attacking the sources that say he's the worst about lying, etc., and admit to yourselves that he is indeed a more prolific liar than Clinton is. He lies like most people breath. It's autonomic.

If you want to vote for him even though you can't believe a thing he says, I guess go ahead. But don't vote for him without coming to grips with just how bad he is in that regard. Do NOT think he's telling you the truth about anything, that's he's "telling us like it is," and crap like that. He's clearly not.

[JohnStOnge]

Not Trump per se this time but that robot woman Katrina Pierson. Saw her on CNN. She said Humayun Khan got killed because Obama and Clinton changed the rules of engagement. After the interview CNN came back with a fact check: Khan was killed in 2004; five years before Obama took office.

These people are unbelievable. Literally.

[Wedgebuster]

Not Trump per se this time but that robot woman Katrina Pierson. Saw her on CNN. She said Humayun Khan got killed because Obama and Clinton changed the rules of engagement. After the interview CNN came back with a fact check: Khan was killed in 2004; five years before Obama took office.

These people are unbelievable. Literally.

Hey John, remember it was Obama that killed the economy, not that other guy, junior or something. I remember you defending junior, and blaming Obama for everything in the last 20 years. Now Trump is pissing you off , and he is probably twice as smart as junior ever was.. You must have a thing about his 'do.

[Ivytalk]

Crying babies? Purple Hearts? Trump couldn't have had a worse day if JSO himself was his campaign manager.

[Ibanez]

Was that something that he could've have lost in the first place?

The problem for you guys is that you know that, though you can say stuff like that in an attempt at ad hominem argument, you know that I do have credibility because I can back up what I write. You know I understand how to interpret data, etc.

So all you can do is attempt to insult me.

Yet you miss the obvious