"Islamic Extremist" Kills Dozens In Orlando Gay Club

[Ibanez]

Those who are willing to go outside of legal means to obtain weapons will almost always find someone willing to sell weapons at an outrageous profit. I believe that the government should cut down on illegal gun trade, not participate in it (i.e. Iran Contra, Fast & Furious, ISIS, etc.). I do not believe that the US government should disarm it's own law abiding citizens as an answer to acts of terror within its borders who do not participate in such activities, but should rather respond in such a way as to deter encouragement of future events.

But, why are these acts always carried out with legal guns?

I can't think of one mass shooting with an automatic weapon bought off of the black market or bought. They're often semiautomatic variants that have been modified to be legal.

Sure, someone with the connections can buy any number of things on the black market. However, you need connections. If you go trawling on the internet looking to buy illegal shit without any idea what you're doing - you're probably going to wind up talking to an undercover FBI or ATF agent far before you get a connection on the black market.

These guys are very often loners. They can't make normal connections with people, much less connections on the black market.


This dude wanted to buy body armor. He was denied. He didn't buy any on the black market.

If he couldn't have purchased a gun... would he have been able to make black market connections?

If his family had helped him with his mental issues, would we even be discussing this??? The gun isn't the problem. It's the person wielding it.

[LeadBolt]

Those who are willing to go outside of legal means to obtain weapons will almost always find someone willing to sell weapons at an outrageous profit. I believe that the government should cut down on illegal gun trade, not participate in it (i.e. Iran Contra, Fast & Furious, ISIS, etc.). I do not believe that the US government should disarm it's own law abiding citizens as an answer to acts of terror within its borders who do not participate in such activities, but should rather respond in such a way as to deter encouragement of future events.

But, why are these acts always carried out with legal guns?

I can't think of one mass shooting with an automatic weapon bought off of the black market or bought. They're often semiautomatic variants that have been modified to be legal.

Sure, someone with the connections can buy any number of things on the black market. However, you need connections. If you go trawling on the internet looking to buy illegal **** without any idea what you're doing - you're probably going to wind up talking to an undercover FBI or ATF agent far before you get a connection on the black market.

These guys are very often loners. They can't make normal connections with people, much less connections on the black market.


This dude wanted to buy body armor. He was denied. He didn't buy any on the black market.

If he couldn't have purchased a gun... would he have been able to make black market connections?

Please tell me which of the mass shootings in the US were conducted with automatic weapons. Certainly not Orlando, not CA, not CT, not Columbine.

The last full year for which FBI statistics are available, 2.1% of US murders were caused by rifles (all types) and 5.5% of murders were caused by hands, fists, etc. while 17.2% were caused by knives. Please tell me how banning only semi-automatic rifles will be in reducing murders in this country.

Why wouldn't you ban fists and knives first?

PS - There are a whole lot more guns in the country than body-armour. As usual a red herring.

[Skjellyfetti]

I pretty much agree with you.

Except there is no "the" problem. It's a complicated issue with many problems.

Yes, mental health is a problem. I think everyone acknowledges this is a problem.

We also have a gun problem. But, there are LOTS of people who don't want to acknowledge this.

To me, it's more interesting to try to get more people to see that there actually is a problem with guns in this country.

If you'd rather talk about the mental health problem - I'm all ears. But, what do you suggest be done with it? Just hope families take care of it? The most at risk people aren't going to look at an expensive psychiatrist bill or expensive meds as a necessity.

[Skjellyfetti]

Please tell me which of the mass shootings in the US were conducted with automatic weapons. Certainly not Orlando, not CA, not CT, not Columbine.

I didn't claim any were. I said exactly the same thing.

You should probably reread.

My point was that these shootings DON'T take place with automatic weapons because automatic weapons are EXTREMELY regulated.

[LeadBolt]

Please tell me which of the mass shootings in the US were conducted with automatic weapons. Certainly not Orlando, not CA, not CT, not Columbine.

I didn't claim any were. I said exactly the same thing.

You should probably reread.

My point was that these shootings DON'T take place with automatic weapons because automatic weapons are EXTREMELY regulated.

OK. As a starting point there are literally millions of semi automatic rifles in the USA today, not to mention semi-automatic pistols and shot guns. There were never that many automatic weapons and they have been virtually banned for approx. 80 years. You're comparing apples and oranges.

Since there are millions, if not 10's of millions of semi-automatic rifles available in the US today, are you advocating confisgating them?

What about shotguns that are used in approx. 5% more murders in the US each year than rifles?

What about pistols that are used in 22 murders for every murder committed with 1 rifle?

[Skjellyfetti]

I don't propose confiscating anything.

Expand background checks (give FBI all the time they need to do thoroughly, close gun show and private seller loopholes, etc.) and not selling to people on terrorist watchlists.

And, a preemptive - YES, people that would be banned could still find a way to get a gun. But, I think it's clear that this would reduce the number of these incidents. These loner guys with no criminal underworld connections are going to have a difficult time buying weapons on the black market.

I'm sure some of these you disagree with. They don't seem that radical to me - but, feel free to argue against any of them.

And, if you want to put forth any solutions yourself.... feel free.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

The people that think we have a gun problem barely know the difference between a rifle shotgun or pistol they are that uneducated about the whole thing. Utterly clueless individuals that really like to run their mouths and its time we went on the offensive a close them.

[POD Knows]

I will feel safer if Obama/Clinton change the gun laws. It will mean the terrorists and wacko's will quit shooting innocent citizens.

Did somebody hack your fucking accounting. OMFG

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/14/technol ... index.html

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

I will feel safer if Obama/Clinton change the gun laws. It will mean the terrorists and wacko's will quit shooting innocent citizens.

Did somebody hack your fucking accounting. OMFG

If they change any gun laws these things will happen every other week. Bank on it

Its not a gun problem you cannot legislate evil so you either arm yourself or deal with the consequences. Its your choice.

[JohnStOnge]

I suspect that in a club type environment someone determined to kill a lot of people could simply take a poison gas approach. Lots of stuff on the internet on how to make poisonous gas. Or they could do something like has been done before and use arson:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UpStairs_ ... son_attack

That one killed "only" 32 people but it's not hard to envision a scenario in which more than 50 are killed.

Guns are efficient tools. But even removing guns from the picture entirely would not solve the problem. Focusing on the tool is focusing on the wrong thing.

[93henfan]

But, why are these acts always carried out with legal guns?

Legal guns are used in approximately 3 to 11% of crimes in this country. There are obviously caveats and getting the exact percentage is impossible, but that range is commonly accepted. Also, you are talking about just mass shooting events, while this number is for all crimes.

If you want an example of how well gun control stops killing with true automatic weaponry, I submit to you: France. Those were illegal AK's homie.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... es-commit/

[HI54UNI]

Interesting that after the attack in France everything on fakebook was French flags. Now it's nothing.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Once again who cares if any other countries like us or not.................we need to become an I first country.

Fuck everyone else

[YoUDeeMan]

Interesting that after the attack in France everything on fakebook was French flags. Now it's nothing.

Are you suggesting that fakebook should post French fags this time?

[LeadBolt]

The people that think we have a gun problem barely know the difference between a rifle shotgun or pistol they are that uneducated about the whole thing. Utterly clueless individuals that really like to run their mouths and its time we went on the offensive a close them.

I agree with you. The rest of this post is aimed at KY's request for a proposal.

I feel education would be a good start to our problem. I feel that no one in this country should graduate from high school without education and training in firearms use and safety.

Next we should tackle problems that tend to break up nuclear family units into single parent homes. This would have the impact of decreasing poverty and increasing parental oversight and discipline. Restructuring of the aid to dependent children program would be a huge step in the right direction.

Throwing the book at those who commit violent crimes would be a great thing as well. Patrols in targeted neighborhoods would also help. We saw how it improved things in New York pre-DeBlasio. The police chief of Chicago is on record as saying the major portion of the problem there is concentrated in approximately 1,500 individuals in a handful of neighborhoods.

Next, take the shackles off of the FBI and other LE in restricting their surveilance of minority religions and other groups where a majority of these incidents incubate.

Finally we should re-institute the draft to take more idle young people off of the street to instill discipline and pride into them.

[DSUrocks07]

The people that think we have a gun problem barely know the difference between a rifle shotgun or pistol they are that uneducated about the whole thing. Utterly clueless individuals that really like to run their mouths and its time we went on the offensive a close them.

I agree with you. The rest of this post is aimed at KY's request for a proposal.

I feel education would be a good start to our problem. I feel that no one in this country should graduate from high school without education and training in firearms use and safety.

Next we should tackle problems that tend to break up nuclear family units into single parent homes. This would have the impact of decreasing poverty and increasing parental oversight and discipline. Restructuring of the aid to dependent children program would be a huge step in the right direction.

Throwing the book at those who commit violent crimes would be a great thing as well. Patrols in targeted neighborhoods would also help. We saw how it improved things in New York pre-DeBlasio. The police chief of Chicago is on record as saying the major portion of the problem there is concentrated in approximately 1,500 individuals in a handful of neighborhoods.

Next, take the shackles off of the FBI and other LE in restricting their surveilance of minority religions and other groups where a majority of these incidents incubate.

Finally we should re-institute the draft to take more idle young people off of the street to instill discipline and pride into them.

Bring back "Home Economics"

Teach actual life skills, including weapon training and education.

It's human nature to always fear what you don't understand. So instead of trying to understand it, like they do with Islam, they want to cry like babies and call for tighter restrictions on US citizens.

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[93henfan]

Once again who cares if any other countries like us or not.................we need to become an I first country.

Fuck everyone else

This is the truth. We completely squandered every advantage we built up to as a nation for the 300 years leading up to WWII. It's really a sickness of this country that we are willing to give away everything to people who envy and ultimately hate us because of our success. It's a recipe for disaster and we need to stop it immediately.

[Gil Dobie]

I will feel safer if Obama/Clinton change the gun laws. It will mean the terrorists and wacko's will quit shooting innocent citizens.

Did somebody hack your **** accounting. OMFG

Don't you believe banning assault weapons would have stopped all these mass shootings in the first place.

[CAA Flagship]

They are trying to figure out why this douchebag went to the club several times before, or used gay dating apps. They are saying that he may be gay, or at least WTAG-curious. I'm not buying it. I think he was trying to lure someone out to kill them discreetly. But after repeated detection of the hetero-gene, and unsuccessful attempts at being "picked up", he decided to take them out all at once.
This is more likely an anti-gay incident with a dash of radical Islam thrown in for flavor.

[Baldy]

They are trying to figure out why this douchebag went to the club several times before, or used gay dating apps. They are saying that he may be gay, or at least WTAG-curious. I'm not buying it. I think he was trying to lure someone out to kill them discreetly. But after repeated detection of the hetero-gene, and unsuccessful attempts at being "picked up", he decided to take them out all at once.
This is more likely an anti-gay incident with a dash of radical Islam thrown in for flavor.

You're on to something. I think it was more of a mental conflict in the head of a radical Islamist who craved cock.

[houndawg]

Mental illness?



C'mon, half the people on here are mentally ill. Just look at the 180 that JSO did. And look at Wedgie...he calls out Trump, but not Clinton. That is mental illness.

Obomba and Clinton are dumping BILLIONS of dollars worth of arms to every whack job country (with abysmal human rights records) on the planet...and some azz clowns on here defend her and somehow believe she favors not killing people with guns.

Funny, some people call Trump a racist...and scream that he hates Muslins. In the meantime, the Democratic candidate they support has actually supported, and is responsible for, the killing of hundreds of thousands of Muslins, many of them women and children.

"But...but...but...those dead Muslin people is dem foreigners, so they don't count."




In the end, this guy's father was a nut job that we allowed to come over from Affy. His son was a nut job, but the FBI didn't lock him up. Why?

Was he gay? Who cares? Did he lean towards Islam and use its teachings to kill gays? Yup.

But hey, let's not talk about Islam...that would be racist...wait...bigoted. Let's just kill the savages in their own lands, and do business with them, and sell them arms...and pretend nothing is wrong, and there i nothing hypocritical about that.

Islam doesn't kill people cuck. People kill people. This guy would have used something else to kill with if there weren't any Islam around.

The real problem is people foolish enough to swallow religion.

[houndawg]

The people that think we have a gun problem barely know the difference between a rifle shotgun or pistol they are that uneducated about the whole thing. Utterly clueless individuals that really like to run their mouths and its time we went on the offensive a close them.

I agree with you. The rest of this post is aimed at KY's request for a proposal.

I feel education would be a good start to our problem. I feel that no one in this country should graduate from high school without education and training in firearms use and safety.

Next we should tackle problems that tend to break up nuclear family units into single parent homes. This would have the impact of decreasing poverty and increasing parental oversight and discipline. Restructuring of the aid to dependent children program would be a huge step in the right direction.

Throwing the book at those who commit violent crimes would be a great thing as well. Patrols in targeted neighborhoods would also help. We saw how it improved things in New York pre-DeBlasio. The police chief of Chicago is on record as saying the major portion of the problem there is concentrated in approximately 1,500 individuals in a handful of neighborhoods.

Next, take the shackles off of the FBI and other LE in restricting their surveilance of minority religions and other groups where a majority of these incidents incubate.

Finally we should re-institute the draft to take more idle young people off of the street to instill discipline and pride into them.

Its a great idea. And the very first draftees should be the military aged kids of Congress people straight into leg infantry.

[93henfan]

They are trying to figure out why this douchebag went to the club several times before, or used gay dating apps. They are saying that he may be gay, or at least WTAG-curious. I'm not buying it. I think he was trying to lure someone out to kill them discreetly. But after repeated detection of the hetero-gene, and unsuccessful attempts at being "picked up", he decided to take them out all at once.
This is more likely an anti-gay incident with a dash of radical Islam thrown in for flavor.

Heard on the radio this morning that he took two trips to Saudi Arabia and on the second one was put up in a four star resort with high dollar meals throughout.

Sounds like this guy may have been on a directed mission. More radical islam than butt play.

[houndawg]

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POY candidate!!

This round is on me