THE RELIGION THREAD

[houndawg]

Maybe god hasn't found us yet. We'd be easy to overlook.

http://digg.com/d1ofQT

[SeattleGriz]

I hear they drink soy milk in China.

[D1B]

Scumbag lawyer. Avoiding answering simple questions about his faith. Touts his years of theological study under the giants of philosophy and philosophy, but yet cannot articulate the difference between two of the three religions who believe in the same god. Then cowardly avoids offering his opinons on the critical differences in their respective treatments of a key character in jesus.

Poor Joe. Checkmate, again.

What's the point about having a discussion about the nature of God, if we have no concensus about the existence of God?

Thousands and thousands of years of philosophy -- philosophy which you have claimed to have read -- would establish should God exist, this would necessary imply certain aspects about his nature, which would can then lead to a discussion as to which religious expression is more authentic.

Philosophers and theologaians alike have long concluded that a discussion about the nature of God and the authenticity of religious expression is not possible until one accepts the existence of God.

So your question is not valid, because you do not accept the existence of God. And you would have immediately realized what I was saying if you really had as much familiarity with this subject as you claim. Notice how easily the vitriol flies when the discussion, as usual, gets beyond the limited grasp of the atheist.

As I said, it is you who appears to be saying that all religious expression is equal.

Joe, this isn't a discussion, scumbag lawyer. Just a simple question that you are afraid to answer.

Checkmate.


How bout some of you other christians? Why do the jews not get that Jesus is the son of god? How did they miss out on this?

[SeattleGriz]

What's the point about having a discussion about the nature of God, if we have no concensus about the existence of God?

Thousands and thousands of years of philosophy -- philosophy which you have claimed to have read -- would establish should God exist, this would necessary imply certain aspects about his nature, which would can then lead to a discussion as to which religious expression is more authentic.

Philosophers and theologaians alike have long concluded that a discussion about the nature of God and the authenticity of religious expression is not possible until one accepts the existence of God.

So your question is not valid, because you do not accept the existence of God. And you would have immediately realized what I was saying if you really had as much familiarity with this subject as you claim. Notice how easily the vitriol flies when the discussion, as usual, gets beyond the limited grasp of the atheist.

As I said, it is you who appears to be saying that all religious expression is equal.

Joe, this isn't a discussion, scumbag lawyer. Just a simple question that you are afraid to answer.

Checkmate.


How bout some of you other christians? Why do the jews not get that Jesus is the son of god? How did they miss out on this?

I don't have a huge amount of knowledge on Jewish history, so this is a stab, but wasn't it pretty much because the Jews expected Jesus to come down to Earth and kick some butt? When Jesus turned out to be a pacifist, they assumed he could not be the God they were expecting.

If the Jews expected the Son of Man to rule with an iron fist, they didn't get it in Jesus.

Jesus rode into town on a donkey - hardly fitting of the King of Men. Jesus served man, not the other way around, which was expected from someone who was to bring order to the World.

[native]

If you bet on God you risk nothing and stand to gain everything.

If you bet against God you risk everything and stand to gain nothing.

C.S. Lewis had it about right.

[native]

...You don't think secular humanism is the Judeo/Christian morality system without a belief in God? ...

BINGO!

[native]

Very good point. My dad, who was a minister, firmly believed in the hymn "And We Will Show Them We are Christians by Our Love", and lived his life that way.

As a gay man, the hatred and venom that gets spewed to me by "Christians" is incredible. One reason I have been very turned off by Christianity.

Man, I'm sorry you've been hated and persecuted by Christ's "followers" While I don't agree with your life style I don't hate anyone who is gay. Christ died for EVERYONE - Gay's, drug addicts, prostitutes, hippies, yuppies, the rich, the poor. Everyone!

You nailed it, BigSkyBears!

Good on YOU!

[Cleets Part 2]

If you bet on God you risk nothing and stand to gain everything.

If you bet against God you risk everything and stand to gain nothing.

C.S. Lewis had it about right.

I have no issue with God - but that's still a stupid quote...
Okay.. I'll bet 1 million Dollars God does not strike me down (Or whatever) betting on god in the literal sense is a lose only endeavor

the word he's using (bet) in place of faith is not a very good substitution - but he's too much of a pussy to actually say: Have faith in God

and then he implies that if you do not have faith in God - you will be punished somehow - because God is obviously a peevish capricious child who requires some kind of obscure obedience for his satisfaction...

Ridiculous on so many levels - I love the idea of God and a higher power... but sometimes you gotta just say: Wow...

[native]

...Ridiculous on so many levels ...

The Pot of Pomposity speaks! Reppies from the Kettle!

...interpretable on so many levels. Your interpretation says more about you than it does about me or about C.S. Lewis.

...I love the idea of God and a higher power...

...and so did C.S. Lewis.

...but sometimes you gotta just say: Wow...

So, your real name is Ralph Wallace?!??? Is that all you got?!???

...I'd rather be a ditto head.

[Cleets Part 2]

...Ridiculous on so many levels ...

The Pot of Pomposity speaks! Reppies from the Kettle!

...interpretable on so many levels. Your interpretation says more about you than it does about me or about C.S. Lewis.

...I love the idea of God and a higher power...

...and so did C.S. Lewis.

...but sometimes you gotta just say: Wow...

So, your real name is Ralph Wallace?!??? Is that all you got?!???

...I'd rather be a ditto head.

What point are you trying to make and who's Ralph Wallace..?

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

...You don't think secular humanism is the Judeo/Christian morality system without a belief in God? ...

BINGO!

Not to repeat it but both have taken it from before their existence and made it their own. You can't say that it was owned by one and taken by another.

[native]

BINGO!

Not to repeat it but both have taken it from before their existence and made it their own. You can't say that it was owned by one and taken by another.

Point well taken, Brother Bear.

Furthermore, neither admits to adapting ideas previously in existence. Both are pretty adamant about it.

[Cleets Part 2]

BINGO!

Not to repeat it but both have taken it from before their existence and made it their own. You can't say that it was owned by one and taken by another.

unless you imply that God invented morality and then gave it to man... or you can just say Bingo

[JoltinJoe]

Joe, this isn't a discussion,

Obviously it isn't.

Why can't you hold a discussion without getting personal? No reason for that.

[native]

Not to repeat it but both have taken it from before their existence and made it their own. You can't say that it was owned by one and taken by another.

unless you imply that God invented morality and then gave it to man... or you can just say Bingo

What are the metaphysical differences between the Universe having order and meaning and God inventing it?

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Not to repeat it but both have taken it from before their existence and made it their own. You can't say that it was owned by one and taken by another.

Point well taken, Brother Bear.

Furthermore, neither admits to adapting ideas previously in existence. Both are pretty adamant about it.

Truth. We all like to steal good ideas and present them as original I guess.

[dbackjon]

Here is one of my issues with Christianity (or most any religion), for that matter...

Assume there is a God. Assume there is an afterlife.

I find it hard to swallow that a loving God (as espoused in the New Testament) would condemn a good and moral person to hell solely because he did not believe in him.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Here is one of my issues with Christianity (or most any religion), for that matter...

Assume there is a God. Assume there is an afterlife.

I find it hard to swallow that a loving God (as espoused in the New Testament) would condemn a good and moral person to hell solely because he did not believe in him.

Not only that but let's say I live a life that leads me to heaven. Some of my brothers on this board do not do so. Some of my family members also don't make the cut. How can I consider this new home heaven? Does my spirit not care any longer about the ties that I had in my previous life and the people that were a part of my ascendancy to that plane?

[clenz]

The Church across the street from our house does outdoor services during the summer apparently. They start promptly at 9:30 with very very loud music with no respect for those who might be sleeping.


I thought about calling in a noise complaint this morning. I have to work today, I need my rest.

[bobbythekidd]

[quote="Ursus A. Horribilis]Not only that but let's say I live a life that leads me to heaven. Some of my brothers on this board do not do so. Some of my family members also don't make the cut. How can I consider this new home heaven? Does my spirit not care any longer about the ties that I had in my previous life and the people that were a part of my ascendancy to that plane?[/quote]
Heaven is so good that you wouldn't care about who isn't there.

[Cleets Part 2]

unless you imply that God invented morality and then gave it to man... or you can just say Bingo

What are the metaphysical differences between the Universe having order and meaning and God inventing it?

Universal order and God are synonymous to me (personally)
Human concepts of morality and from whence they came is "parlance ignorance"

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Heaven is so good that you wouldn't care about who isn't there.

Oh Ok, I'll have to trust you and can't wait to see ya there man. This would be my next question though.

Not to you specifically btk because we're already heading there but more to help others that we can while we're here.

If I no longer care about those that enriched and gave me the life I have in working to heaven then heaven is either a conscience removal machine, or I just don't know who I was and what my ties to the world I came form are? Because if that is the kind of being that I will be in heaven then doesn't that fly in the face of all the things that I was supposed to do achieve that level?

If I no longer care about friends and family then I certainly must not care about my fellow man any longer. The endgame appears to be completely the opposite of what we are supposed to be working toward. If it were as some say then it seems like one of the most selfish acts imaginable.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

What are the metaphysical differences between the Universe having order and meaning and God inventing it?

Universal order and God are synonymous to me (personally)
Human concepts of morality and from whence they came is "parlance ignorance"

It's tough to do but I will have to agree with you.

[dbackjon]

Heaven is so good that you wouldn't care about who isn't there.

Oh Ok, I'll have to trust you and can't wait to see ya there man. This would be my next question though.

Not to you specifically btk because we're already heading there but more to help others that we can while we're here.

If I no longer care about those that enriched and gave me the life I have in working to heaven then heaven is either a conscience removal machine, or I just don't know who I was and what my ties to the world I came form are? Because if that is the kind of being that I will be in heaven then doesn't that fly in the face of all the things that I was supposed to do achieve that level?

If I no longer care about friends and family then I certainly must not care about my fellow man any longer. The endgame appears to be completely the opposite of what we are supposed to be working toward. If it were as some say then it seems like one of the most selfish acts imaginable.

Excellent post, my Ursine Brother.

It is like some of the so-called Christians that actively work to bring about the conditions that they beleive are needed for Jesus' return, with the accompaning plagues, famine, billions of deaths. This selfishness is very Christ-like.

[SeattleGriz]

Here is one of my issues with Christianity (or most any religion), for that matter...

Assume there is a God. Assume there is an afterlife.

I find it hard to swallow that a loving God (as espoused in the New Testament) would condemn a good and moral person to hell solely because he did not believe in him.

In Christianity, it would be because one did not accept that His Son shed his blood to atone for ones sins. My understanding is that is all a person will be judged on because Christs blood will have atoned for sins past, present and future.

How can that be? I don't have the answer and don't believe anyone will due to the faith factor, but reading through the Old Testament there is nothing but blood for atonement. Makes me think there is some sort of universal truth out there that must be met.

Not a very good answer, but all I can come up with as I have two kids pestering me for lunch.