Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

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Re: Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Ibanez wrote: :lol: You put it out there.
It has 90,000 miles on it now, I paid $15,000 for it in May of 2013 when it had 45,000 miles on it, financed it through Compass Bank @ 4.75% for 60 months, actual payment is $283 but I pay a little extra to pay it off early, and I just had the oil changed and put new tires on it.

Anything else you'd like to know? :tothehand: :suspicious: :coffee:
I just asked what the car was. Don't be a crybaby. :tothehand:

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Re: Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

Post by AZGrizFan »

In 2015, total spending by the federal government on income security programs was $302 billion. While there is a debate on which other programs to lump in with welfare, it’s reasonable to include Medicaid and CHIP ($359 billion), disability insurance ($144 billion), and income security for veterans ($76 billion). That totals $881 billion.
Divide that by 323,000,000 people that's $2,727/person/year. Hardly a living wage.
Divide it by the estimated 245,000,000 adults and that's $3,596/person/year.

And that's including spending for every conceivable program that it's "reasonable to include". And remember:
Rather than concern itself with managing myriad social welfare and unemployment insurance programs, the government would instead regularly cut a no-strings-attached check to each citizen. No conditions. No questions. Everyone, rich or poor, employed or out of work would get the same amount of money.
KYJelly, tell me again how this is going to LOWER government spending?
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Re: Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

Post by AZGrizFan »

https://contracostabee.com/average-welf ... -per-year/
In August of 2013 The Cato Institute published a study, The Work Verses Welfare Tradeoff, on the welfare question for all 50 states. The researchers found the Federal government provides 126 separate programs targeted toward low income people. These programs provide cash or in-kind benefits such as food, housing, or medical care, directly to individuals and community wide programs for low income communities expressly for the purpose of eliminating poverty. The annual cost to the Federal government of these programs, according to CATO, is $668.2 billion. Add in State programs that cost $284 billion and the annual welfare costs in the country often exceeds $1 trillion dollars.

Cato considered only six of the Federal programs and none of the State programs to reach their “average annual welfare benefit” number. The six programs are: Temporary Assistance to Needy Families (TANF). TANF is the successor to Aid to Families with dependent Children; the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, or SNAP (food stamps); Medicaid (MediCal in California); Housing assistance (public housing , Section 8 housing assistance payments, and other rent subsidies); utility assistance, such as LIHEAP or the Low Income Home Energy Assistance Program.

The women with infants and children program (WIC) is another revenue stream that provides supplemental food assistance, health care referrals, and nutrition education and support for low-income pregnant, breastfeeding, and non-breastfeeding postpartum women and to infants and children up to the age of 5.

CATO used an “average” number for each State calculating the low cost counties benefits (mostly rural) and the higher paying counties (urban) to arrive at an “average” grant for each program. Left out of the study were programs such as job training assistance and child care, such as HeadStart, which has an annual budget of $19 billion. Also left out of the calculation were the Earned Income Tax Credit (maximum benefit last year was $5,372) and the child tax credit. Although not considered in their average benefit calculation, CATO found that “there is a significant tax penalty for those leaving welfare for work.”
Study findings include:
– Welfare pays more than the minimum wage in thirty five states.
– In thirteen states welfare pays more than $15 per hour. Overall, in eleven states welfare pays more than the average pay for a first year teacher; in thirty nine states it pays more than the average starting salary for a secretary.
– Only 42% of welfare recipients are working (nationally and in California) and many of those with jobs are actually not working, but are participating in job training or “job search”. Fewer than 20% have unsubsidized private-sector jobs.
Overall the value of the benefits received “greatly exceed the Federal poverty level, but because welfare benefits are tax free, their dollar value was greater than the amount of take home income a worker would receive in an entry level job”.

Where does California stand in this nationwide study?
Overall California ranks eleventh in the study, with an average “benefit” package of $37,160 (Hawaii was first at $60,590!). This does not count State supplemental assistance, job training assistance, child care, transportation assistance, etc.
– The hourly wage equivalent for a California recipient is $17.87 or double the minimum wage.
– The average TANF grant in 2012 was $723.
– The average SNAP (food stamp) grant was $416 per month, $4,992 per year

In Medicaid payments California ranked last among all states, with an average expenditure per household of $4,459 per year. It will be interesting to see the effect of ObamaCare on this number in the next several years.
Housing assistance averaged $1,235 per month ($998 in rural areas, $1,472 in urban areas). CATO notes that only 11.4% of TANF recipients in California receive Housing assistance. The Contra Costa Housing Authority list Section 8 grants for the County as $1,225 for a two bedroom home, $1,711 for 3 bedroom home and $2,099 for a 4 bedroom home plus utility assistance for “heating, cooking, other electric, air conditioning, water heating, water, sewer, trash collection, refrigerator and range/microwave”.

Conclusions
The CATO Institute arrives at the conclusion that “for many recipients-especially long term dependents-welfare pays more than the type of entry level job that a typical welfare recipient can expect to find. As long as this is true, many recipients are likely to choose welfare over work”.

I agree with their conclusion. I am also disappointed that they limited their study to six out of more than 100 programs and did not consider the significant benefit of programs such as HeadStart at the Federal level and multiple child care programs at the State level.
Tell me more about this "Guaranteed Basic Income", KY....Show me ONE Of these welfare whores who'd be willing to give up $40k/year to help out their fellow man? :dunce: :dunce:
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Re: Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

Post by bandl »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Ibanez wrote: :lol: You put it out there.
@ 4.75% for 60 months,
:shock:
Why so high? :?
I haven't bought a car in 8 years or so that wasn't 0% for 60 or 72 months
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Re: Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

Post by Ibanez »

bandl wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote: @ 4.75% for 60 months,
:shock:
Why so high? :?
I haven't bought a car in 8 years or so that wasn't 0% for 60 or 72 months
Nosy Fucker.


:ohno:
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Re: Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

Post by AZGrizFan »

bandl wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote: @ 4.75% for 60 months,
:shock:
Why so high? :?
I haven't bought a car in 8 years or so that wasn't 0% for 60 or 72 months
You can't get 0% on a used car.
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Re: Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

Post by bandl »

AZGrizFan wrote:
bandl wrote: :shock:
Why so high? :?
I haven't bought a car in 8 years or so that wasn't 0% for 60 or 72 months
You can't get 0% on a used car.
Ah, sorry, didn't notice the 'used' part.

Why is a 1%er like yourself buying a used car? :?
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Re: Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

Post by AZGrizFan »

bandl wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
You can't get 0% on a used car.
Ah, sorry, didn't notice the 'used' part.

Why is a 1%er like yourself buying a used car? :?
Because my son didn't deserve a new car. :coffee:
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Re: Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

Post by bandl »

AZGrizFan wrote:
bandl wrote: Ah, sorry, didn't notice the 'used' part.

Why is a 1%er like yourself buying a used car? :?
Because my son didn't deserve a new car. :coffee:
Oh. He didn't get an A in Home Economics?
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Re: Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

Post by BDKJMU »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Baldy wrote:
AZ's kid was a poor indigent low-income earner in 2015. :lol:

What a shitty parent you are. :mrgreen:
:tothehand: Yeah. That poor indigent low income earner still got his $681 mortgage payment (living in my condo), $175 monthly HOA fee, his $300 car payment, $175/mo car insurance, $50 cell phone and health care paid by me. Yet I STILL couldn't claim him because he wasn't in school full time. :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
That's $2100 a year. On a 2010 Ford Fusion with 90k miles. :shock: He have a bunch of wrecks & tickets?
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Re: Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

Post by Ibanez »

BDKJMU wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote: :tothehand: Yeah. That poor indigent low income earner still got his $681 mortgage payment (living in my condo), $175 monthly HOA fee, his $300 car payment, $175/mo car insurance, $50 cell phone and health care paid by me. Yet I STILL couldn't claim him because he wasn't in school full time. :ohno: :ohno: :ohno:
That's $2100 a year. On a 2010 Ford Fusion with 90k miles. :shock: He have a bunch of wrecks & tickets?
Will you nosy fuckers stay outta Toms business!?!?
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Re: Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

Post by AZGrizFan »

bandl wrote:
AZGrizFan wrote:
Because my son didn't deserve a new car. :coffee:
Oh. He didn't get an A in Home Economics?
That either.
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Re: Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

Post by AZGrizFan »

Ibanez wrote:
BDKJMU wrote:
That's $2100 a year. On a 2010 Ford Fusion with 90k miles. :shock: He have a bunch of wrecks & tickets?
Will you nosy fuckers stay outta Toms business!?!?
Thanks.
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Re: Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

Post by Ibanez »

AZGrizFan wrote:
Ibanez wrote: Will you nosy fuckers stay outta Toms business!?!?
Thanks.
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Re: Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

Post by kalm »

Ivytalk wrote:Can't help but notice that, except for his usual tendentious swipe at Sarah Palin, klam hasn't weighed in on the "merits" of the article. Nor has SmellyBelly. :jack:
Hey. If Milton Friedman supported the idea, what's not to like?

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