THE RELIGION THREAD

[D1B]

I think if Christians were to get back to showing the love of Christ then we could impact the world in a greater way than it's ever seen.

Speaking specifically towards you, Jon - I don't agree with your lifestyle. In my opinion, it's a sin. However, that doesn't change the way I would act toward you. I can disagree with someone and still love them and still be friends with them. I think going out and getting drunk is a sin but I'm friends with quite a few people that do that. I think sleeping around is a sin but I'm friends with quite a few people that do that. If I treat you, a gay man, different than I treated the straight man down the street, I'm not acting like a Christian should. Love your neighbor as yourself means to love them, no matter what they do, like yourself. It doesn't mean love them only if it's convenient and they agree with everything you do.

I know many of you, if not all, don't like Dr. Falwell and that's fine with me. One of the things he used to say that sticks out to me is, "Love the sinner, hate the sin." That's how I try to live my life. I treat everyone with the utmost respect that I can. I go out of the way to do the little things that show the love of Jesus. I don't do it because I think I'm better than someone. I do it because I feel that's the way I should live.

We may disagree on the issue of homosexuality, but I'm sure we can agree on other things. For example, we both like college football. That's why we're here. Why people continue to focus on the things that they disagree on as opposed to the things they do agree on is beyond me. Why people have to fight and argue and hate just because they disagree is beyond me and, in my opinion, not being a Christian at all.

Jon you are a victim of organized religion. You should not consider homosexuality a sin.

[JoltinJoe]

By the way, I don't understand Hitchens style. He was a complete turd to almost every caller. While I can understand his frustration, as discussed above, I often have to think of a saying my mother uses. "You can attract more flies with honey than vinegar".

Hitchens, and atheists in general, cannot defend atheism at any level beyond its immediate surface appeal. That's because atheism is the easiest and laziest outlook: I cannot see it, so there is nothing to see. So all the atheist can do is heap scorn when the discussion gets beyond what is easy, what is lazy, and what has a surface appeal.

So Hitchens is pretty typical. If you don't accept his viewpoint, and can challenge him with better and mor informed ideas, he just gets nasty.

[SuperJon]

My beliefs don't come from what I was taught in church growing up. I saw so much crap being the grandson of a preacher that were the laws of man and not the laws of God that I got frustrated with it. My beliefs come from me reading the Bible and finding out what I thought was being taught, and that's the conclusion I came up with. We obviously disagree and that's ok in my opinion. I don't have all the answers. You don't have all the answers. All I can go by is my personal convictions and my personal beliefs. You can call it whatever you want, but I know what I believe and why I believe it. I also know that not everyone is going to agree with me and chances are, quite a few are going to make fun of me for them. That's perfectly fine to me. I've spent many nights and weekends alone because I felt differently than friends and didn't wanna go out and party and all of that (even at Liberty). At the end of the day, if I can't look myself in the mirror then anyone else's opinion of me isn't going to matter.

[SuperJon]

Hitchens, and atheists in general, cannot defend atheism at any level beyond its immediate surface appeal. That's because atheism is the easiest and laziest outlook: I cannot see it, so there is nothing to see. So all the atheist can do is heap scorn when the discussion gets beyond what is easy, what is lazy, and what has a surface appeal.

I somewhat disagree. It takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be a Christian. To fully trust and believe that there is nothing out there is much harder than believing that something is out there somewhere. Even people who are anti-religion feel that there is some sort of something somewhere. If I'm wrong, and this whole Christianity thing is a bunch of crap, then I'll just rot and turn into dirt and that's the end of it. If they're wrong, and this Christianity thing is actually true, then they're in for a lot more than I would be.

[JoltinJoe]

Hitchens, and atheists in general, cannot defend atheism at any level beyond its immediate surface appeal. That's because atheism is the easiest and laziest outlook: I cannot see it, so there is nothing to see. So all the atheist can do is heap scorn when the discussion gets beyond what is easy, what is lazy, and what has a surface appeal.

I somewhat disagree. It takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be a Christian. To fully trust and believe that there is nothing out there is much harder than believing that something is out there somewhere. Even people who are anti-religion feel that there is some sort of something somewhere. If I'm wrong, and this whole Christianity thing is a bunch of crap, then I'll just rot and turn into dirt and that's the end of it. If they're wrong, and this Christianity thing is actually true, then they're in for a lot more than I would be.

That's the great thing about arguing with an atheist. He will never have the chance to say, "I told you so."

But I disagree with you. It takes no faith or work to be an atheist.

[JoltinJoe]

By the way, I don't understand Hitchens style. He was a complete turd to almost every caller. While I can understand his frustration, as discussed above, I often have to think of a saying my mother uses. "You can attract more flies with honey than vinegar".

Hitchens, and atheists in general, cannot defend atheism at any level beyond its immediate surface appeal. That's because atheism is the easiest and laziest outlook: I cannot see it, so there is nothing to see. So all the atheist can do is heap scorn when the discussion gets beyond what is easy, what is lazy, and what has a surface appeal.

So Hitchens is pretty typical. If you don't accept his viewpoint, and can challenge him with better and more informed ideas, he just gets nasty.

[D1B]

I somewhat disagree. It takes more faith to be an atheist than it does to be a Christian. To fully trust and believe that there is nothing out there is much harder than believing that something is out there somewhere. Even people who are anti-religion feel that there is some sort of something somewhere. If I'm wrong, and this whole Christianity thing is a bunch of crap, then I'll just rot and turn into dirt and that's the end of it. If they're wrong, and this Christianity thing is actually true, then they're in for a lot more than I would be.

That's the great thing about arguing with an atheist. He will never have the chance to say, "I told you so."

But I disagree with you. It takes no faith or work to be an atheist.

That the beauty of atheism, it doesn't suck the life out of us like catholocism does to you. This enables us to concentrate on our families, art, beauty and the improvement of mankind versus worshipping Santa Clause and the tooth fairy.

[JoltinJoe]

That's the great thing about arguing with an atheist. He will never have the chance to say, "I told you so."

But I disagree with you. It takes no faith or work to be an atheist.

That the beauty of atheism, it doesn't suck the life out of us like catholocism does to you. This enables us to concentrate on our families, art, beauty and the improvement of mankind versus worshipping Santa Clause and the tooth fairy.

See? You proved me point! And look at the stunning intellectual rigor of your response.

You are my trained dog.

[D1B]

Hitchens, and atheists in general, cannot defend atheism at any level beyond its immediate surface appeal. That's because atheism is the easiest and laziest outlook: I cannot see it, so there is nothing to see. So all the atheist can do is heap scorn when the discussion gets beyond what is easy, what is lazy, and what has a surface appeal.

So Hitchens is pretty typical. If you don't accept his viewpoint, and can challenge him with better and more informed ideas, he just gets nasty.

Joe, I've read your posts. Hichens would rip you a new asshole. As I demolished you in the torture thread, you cannot defend your faith with facts, science or logic. Yet all can be used to cast serious doubt, and employing history - serious derision against your cult.

In fact, I've cast serious doubt on you as a competant catholic apologist by simpling asking you why the Jews and Muslims are wrong about jesus and you are right. It's easy.

[JoltinJoe]

Joe, I've read your posts. Hichens would rip you a new *******. As I demolished you in the torture thread, you cannot defend your faith with facts, science or logic. Yet all can be used to cast serious doubt, and employing history - serious derision against your cult.

In fact, I've cast serious doubt on you as a competant catholic apologist by simpling asking you why the Jews and Muslims are wrong about jesus and you are right. It's easy.

I would cream Hitchens in an argument. He would be my trained puppy too.

Now, "Paw." Come on boy, you can do it.

[D1B]

That the beauty of atheism, it doesn't suck the life out of us like catholocism does to you. This enables us to concentrate on our families, art, beauty and the improvement of mankind versus worshipping Santa Clause and the tooth fairy.

See? You proved me point! And look at the stunning intellectual rigor of your response.

You are my trained dog.

Joe, you just dumb.

Athesim is not a religion or a values system. It is what it is and nothing else. Your holding it up as something more than just no belief in god is laughable and exposes yet again youe utter lack of knowledge in this arena.

I'll throw you a bone, doggy, use secular humanism if you want to continue you current line of nonsense.

[SuperJon]

See, once again, that's the reason religion gets a bad name. What was a civil conversation has turned into name calling and 6th grade crap.

[D1B]

Joe, I've read your posts. Hichens would rip you a new *******. As I demolished you in the torture thread, you cannot defend your faith with facts, science or logic. Yet all can be used to cast serious doubt, and employing history - serious derision against your cult.

In fact, I've cast serious doubt on you as a competant catholic apologist by simpling asking you why the Jews and Muslims are wrong about jesus and you are right. It's easy.

I would cream Hitchens in an argument. He would be my trained puppy too.

Now, "Paw." Come on boy, you can do it.

Joe, you cannot even answer the question about Jesus, how the hell can you compete with a mind like Hitchens?

Here it is again...

Joe, why are you right about Jesus and the Jews and Muslims are wrong?

[D1B]

See, once again, that's the reason religion gets a bad name. What was a civil conversation has turned into name calling and 6th grade crap.

Joltin Joe does when he gets backed into a corner. Everything was fine until he showed up.

He's a violent "Lasher"

[D1B]

Joe, I've read your posts. Hichens would rip you a new *******. As I demolished you in the torture thread, you cannot defend your faith with facts, science or logic. Yet all can be used to cast serious doubt, and employing history - serious derision against your cult.

In fact, I've cast serious doubt on you as a competant catholic apologist by simpling asking you why the Jews and Muslims are wrong about jesus and you are right. It's easy.

I would cream Hitchens in an argument. He would be my trained puppy too.

Now, "Paw." Come on boy, you can do it.

Joe, why don't you write a book? Have you published anything? If so, give some info.

[SuperJon]

Joe, why are you right about Jesus and the Jews and Muslims are wrong?

I'm not Joe, but whatever. I don't know the answer to this question right off the bat. I don't know the Jewish and Muslim faiths well enough to answer it. However, I have a friend who is studying the 12 major religions from around the world and our dean is a former Muslim. If I get the chance, I'll ask them to answer that.

[JoltinJoe]

See? You proved me point! And look at the stunning intellectual rigor of your response.

You are my trained dog.

Joe, you just dumb.

Athesim is not a religion or a values system. It is what it is and nothing else. Your holding it up as something more than just no belief in god is laughable and exposes yet again youe utter lack of knowledge in this arena.

I'll throw you a bone, doggy, use secular humanism if you want to continue you current line of nonsense.

Secular humanism is nothing but a Judeo/Christian outlook without a belief in God.

Come up with your own value system, then we'll talk.

[D1B]

Joe, why are you right about Jesus and the Jews and Muslims are wrong?

I'm not Joe, but whatever. I don't know the answer to this question right off the bat. I don't know the Jewish and Muslim faiths well enough to answer it. However, I have a friend who is studying the 12 major religions from around the world and our dean is a former Muslim. If I get the chance, I'll ask them to answer that.

I would appreciate that SJ. Thanks.


I've always wonder about it myself. I just don't understand how the Jews could have missed the son of god? They're a fairly religious and intelligent culture. But, whatever...

[D1B]

Joe, you just dumb.

Athesim is not a religion or a values system. It is what it is and nothing else. Your holding it up as something more than just no belief in god is laughable and exposes yet again youe utter lack of knowledge in this arena.

I'll throw you a bone, doggy, use secular humanism if you want to continue you current line of nonsense.

Secular humanism is nothing but a Judeo/Christian outlook without a belief in God.

Come up with your own value system, then we'll talk.

Strike three Joe. Sorry. It's obvious you don't know much. Good luck to you.

[SuperJon]

I'm not Joe, but whatever. I don't know the answer to this question right off the bat. I don't know the Jewish and Muslim faiths well enough to answer it. However, I have a friend who is studying the 12 major religions from around the world and our dean is a former Muslim. If I get the chance, I'll ask them to answer that.

I would appreciate that SJ. Thanks.


I've always wonder about it myself. I just don't understand how the Jews could have missed the son of god? They're a fairly religious and intelligent culture. But, whatever...

I know that the Biblical Jesus and Jesus in the Koran are portrayed differently. Check this out if you wanna read about it. It's 22 differences. Dr. Caner, president of Liberty Baptist Theological Seminary put that together. Dr. Caner ((B.A., M.A., M.Div., Th,M., D.Min., Ph.D.) is one of the smartest people and one of the most brilliant minds I've ever met and heard speak. He was raised as the son of a Muslim leader in Turkey. Him and his brother are both deans of seminaries in America now. If you really want to learn about the defense of Christianity, he's the guy you go to.

[JoltinJoe]

See, once again, that's the reason religion gets a bad name. What was a civil conversation has turned into name calling and 6th grade crap.

Relax, Jon, Jeff and I are just funnin' with each other.

[JoltinJoe]

I would cream Hitchens in an argument. He would be my trained puppy too.

Now, "Paw." Come on boy, you can do it.

Joe, you cannot even answer the question about Jesus, how the hell can you compete with a mind like Hitchens?

Here it is again...

Joe, why are you right about Jesus and the Jews and Muslims are wrong?

I asked you before: wrong about what?

And why do I have to answer this question? It is based on your assumption of what Ithink. If you can find any place where I have said the Jews or the Muslims are "wrong," I'll answer your question.

[D1B]

Joe, you cannot even answer the question about Jesus, how the hell can you compete with a mind like Hitchens?

Here it is again...

Joe, why are you right about Jesus and the Jews and Muslims are wrong?

I asked you before: wrong about what?

And why do I have to answer this question? It is based on your assumption of what Ithink. If you can find any place where I have said the Jews or the Muslims are "wrong," I'll answer your question.

Bout Jesus being the son of god. I have a 3:30 tee time at Koshkonong Mounds CC. See ya later...

[JoltinJoe]

I asked you before: wrong about what?

And why do I have to answer this question? It is based on your assumption of what Ithink. If you can find any place where I have said the Jews or the Muslims are "wrong," I'll answer your question.

Bout Jesus being the son of god. I have a 3:30 tee time at Koshkonong Mounds CC. See ya later...

So another prayer to St. Jude for you to break 90 is in order?

[dbackjon]

Joe, why are you right about Jesus and the Jews and Muslims are wrong?

I'm not Joe, but whatever. I don't know the answer to this question right off the bat. I don't know the Jewish and Muslim faiths well enough to answer it. However, I have a friend who is studying the 12 major religions from around the world and our dean is a former Muslim. If I get the chance, I'll ask them to answer that.

What does he consider the 12 major religions?