Negative Income Tax / Guaranteed Basic Income

[Chizzang]

We do NOT NEED TAX reform...
We need spending reform

F****!!!

It is beyond frustrating trying to explain to the Liberal 20 somethings
We do NOT need MORE TAX REVENUE

[andy7171]

Remember in the 1950's when the top marginal rates were 80-90% and no jobs were created?

You were born in 1971.

[BDKJMU]

We do NOT NEED TAX reform...
We need spending reform

F****!!!

It is beyond frustrating trying to explain to the Liberal 20 somethings
We do NOT need MORE TAX REVENUE

Yep

$1.48 Trillion: Government Collects Record-High Taxes in First Half of FY 2016
Despite collecting record revenues, government still runs $461 billion deficit

Inflation-adjusted federal tax revenues hit a record..
http://freebeacon.com/issues/1-48-trill ... f-fy-2016/

[kalm]

Remember in the 1950's when the top marginal rates were 80-90% and no jobs were created?

You mean after WWII when we were the only industrialized nation in the world with an infrastructure and the only game in town?

Yeah I covered that.

[kalm]

It's only one factor among many as I'm sure you know. Clinton raised taxes and had great job numbers assisted by the .com bubble. Harding and Coolidge cut taxes and had even greater numbers also during a bubble. We had tremendous job growth in the 50's and 60's thanks to WWII and government spending on infrastructure and the GI Bill. Kansas slashed taxes on the rich and is in the shithouse with stagnant job growth. Sweden seems to do OK.

Our taxes have been relatively low now for quite some time yet we still go through boom and bust cycles. Theoretically, with low taxes and greater share of the wealth, the 1% should be creating jobs like a motherfucker...and good paying ones too.

Is that the same Sweden with a 22% corporate income tax rate?

What are the effective rates? If the individual rates are higher wouldn't that offset lower corporate rates? Haven't we been here before?

[Ivytalk]

We do NOT NEED TAX reform...
We need spending reform

F****!!!

It is beyond frustrating trying to explain to the Liberal 20 somethings
We do NOT need MORE TAX REVENUE

And unregulated Internet!

[kalm]

We do NOT NEED TAX reform...
We need spending reform

F****!!!

It is beyond frustrating trying to explain to the Liberal 20 somethings
We do NOT need MORE TAX REVENUE

As long as government picks winners and losers through subsidies we need tax reform. And what about shifting the burden from corporations to individuals? How about the unnecessary complexity of the code?

I'm 45.

[Skjellyfetti]

We do NOT NEED TAX reform...
We need spending reform

F****!!!

It is beyond frustrating trying to explain to the Liberal 20 somethings
We do NOT need MORE TAX REVENUE

Maybe because you think you read or hear this where it doesn't exist.

Did my post mention anything about needing more tax revenue?

This is more about welfare reform than tax reform.

Doing it through a reform on taxes is because I'm curious is I can get conservative/libertarian leaning people on board... with a proposal from someone at the heart of their philosophy.

[CitadelGrad]

I'll bite. (working night shift right now and really tired so excuse the rambling)

As a stand alone proposal, it's plausible, however where does healthcare and the left's dreams of "free healthcare, free education, free housing", factor into this?

Are we still looking at super high taxes for the "1%"?

Super high corporate tax rates?

Having a small segment of population who already pays over 30% of taxes to the federal government pay more so they "pay their fair share".

Because their money is what is going to lead to the creation of those jobs that will be competed for.

IMO, wages SHOULD be set by the marketplaces, a $15/hr fry cook job and a $15/hr EMT job are not the same. A $15/hr grocery store bagger and a $15/hr dental assist job are not equal. A $15/hr janitorial position at a mall and a $15/hr administrative assistant position at a law firm are not in the same ballpark of qualifications.

Minimum Wage laws FORCE these positions to be on the same playing field.

But honestly the end of entitlements are going to be the biggest roadblock. How long would it take for that $10k tax credit to be demanded increased to $15k? To $20k?

Americans (and the entirety of the human race for that matter) are naturally greedy, they want to both keep what they have and what what the other person has. The problem is that 70 years ago, you were individually responsible for accomplishing your desires, nowadays, everyone looks to the government to make it happen.

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Remember in the 1950's when the top marginal rates were 80-90% and no jobs were created?

And nobody was actually paying that rate. And the U.S. was the only industrial country that wasn't emerging from WWII rubble.

[Chizzang]

We do NOT NEED TAX reform...
We need spending reform

F****!!!

It is beyond frustrating trying to explain to the Liberal 20 somethings
We do NOT need MORE TAX REVENUE

As long as government picks winners and losers through subsidies we need tax reform. And what about shifting the burden from corporations to individuals? How about the unnecessary complexity of the code?

I'm 45.

Those ^ are legitimate points of debate
Other than the 45 year old part....

Please note:
There will be no tax reform
There will be no Political subsidies reform
and there will likely be no simplification of the tax code


But otherwise an entertaining topic...

[BDKJMU]

Yesterday:
Hillary Confirms Trillion Dollar Tax Hike Plan
http://www.atr.org/hillary-confirms-tri ... -hike-plan

[Skjellyfetti]

Yesterday:
Hillary Confirms Trillion Dollar Tax Hike Plan
http://www.atr.org/hillary-confirms-tri ... -hike-plan

This is relevant, how?

[DSUrocks07]

Yesterday:
Hillary Confirms Trillion Dollar Tax Hike Plan
http://www.atr.org/hillary-confirms-tri ... -hike-plan

This is relevant, how?

Haven't you been paying attention?

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[kalm]

Remember in the 1950's when the top marginal rates were 80-90% and no jobs were created?

And nobody was actually paying that rate. And the U.S. was the only industrial country that wasn't emerging from WWII rubble.

Yeah I already covered that.

[Ibanez]

We do NOT NEED TAX reform...
We need spending reform

F****!!!

It is beyond frustrating trying to explain to the Liberal 20 somethings
We do NOT need MORE TAX REVENUE

It's not just liberal 20 somethings. It's also liberal 60 something Presidential candidates.

[GannonFan]

Britain had the same thing for awhile and it was eventually scrapped precisely because no one paid it. Either people didn't report the income to that level, or they moved the money elsewhere to avoid it, or in some cases just stopped working so that they didn't exceed that threshold. I don't think any of those outcomes are really good for society at large, do you?

Of course not. But my original point, that higher taxes on wealth, don't necessarily kill or create jobs, is still valid.

Is that point even worth discussing? If the higher tax rates didn't actually tax anyone (and therefore didn't bring in any new tax revenue) and if they didn't necessarily kill or create jobs, why even have those rates? It's a perfect do nothing/harm nothing tax - we should do similarly important legislation at the same time, like passing laws that pick which letter of the alphabet we should honor on each day, you know, Sesame Street government.

[GannonFan]

We do NOT NEED TAX reform...
We need spending reform

F****!!!

It is beyond frustrating trying to explain to the Liberal 20 somethings
We do NOT need MORE TAX REVENUE

It's not just liberal 20 somethings. It's also liberal 60 something Presidential candidates.

Did Bernie just get younger?

[Baldy]

Is that the same Sweden with a 22% corporate income tax rate?

What are the effective rates? If the individual rates are higher wouldn't that offset lower corporate rates? Haven't we been here before?

So Sweden is giving corporations a hand out at the expense of it's citizens.

That's not very prog....errrr democratic socialist of them.

[Ibanez]

It's not just liberal 20 somethings. It's also liberal 60 something Presidential candidates.

Did Bernie just get younger?

I only thoughT of HRC

[Baldy]

You mean after WWII when we were the only industrialized nation in the world with an infrastructure and the only game in town?

Yeah I covered that.

Not quite.

thanks to WWII

That's like covering the Civil War with..."because darkies".

[Chizzang]

It's not just liberal 20 somethings. It's also liberal 60 something Presidential candidates.

Did Bernie just get younger?

Bernie has convinced the 20 somethings they don't need to pay taxes
and that everybody else needs to pay more

so I stick with my original assessment

[ASUG8]

Did Bernie just get younger?

Bernie has convinced the 20 somethings they don't need to pay taxes
and that everybody else needs to pay more

so I stick with my original assessment

Bernie should just go ahead and define what salaries we're all going to make and tax the heck out of those who make more than the mean and hand it to those who are below. Yay income redistribution, comrades!!

[kalm]

Look, I can only imagine how disconcerting it must be for you guys to learn that cutting taxes on wealth or that higher taxes on wealth don't automatically guarantee job creation/destruction, but that's all I said with my reply to DSU.

Carry on...

[kalm]

Did Bernie just get younger?

Bernie has convinced the 20 somethings they don't need to pay taxes
and that everybody else needs to pay more

so I stick with my original assessment

Cleets playing the role of mis-appropriating conk here...

[UNI88]

Do we really want to bring up what American life was in the 1950s?

I thought progressives always want to move forward? But when it comes to financing their pipe dreams THAT'S when they want to go back to the "good ol' days of America"

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It's just to show you that high taxes on the top 1% does not necessarily kill job creation. There are tons more examples if you need them.

"Progressive" is just another term that has been co-opted by the right.

Think of me as a proto-republican.

Maybe we need a little supply side economics to help spur the economy. After all, LBJ's passage of the JFK tax cuts in 1962 made it possible to fund The Great Society.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/declaring-w ... 1459542563

The first building block of the Great Society was the great tax cut of 1964. This legislation, which cut taxes by $11 billion—the federal budget was around $100 billion at the time—helped boost the economy and increased government revenues by $7.5 billion in its first year. It is hard to know who will be more discomfited by the realization that LBJ was a supply-sider—his liberal admirers or his conservative critics.