About that Bailout...

[Wedgebuster]

KA-FUCKING-BOOM!!!

[Chizzang]

The point is:
If America's largest corporations don;t like the TAX Structure
They mostly just pass it on to the consumer
or make deals with their local and state officials

or

Move their Headquarters
and dodge the associated taxes that go along with that
but the idea that America is unfriendly to business due to over taxation is ridiculous

And I keep waiting for the definitive article or write up that shows how much its hurting
that really uses all the data and isn't predisposed to any one conclusion BEFORE its written

[kalm]

The point is:
If America's largest corporations don;t like the TAX Structure
They mostly just pass it on to the consumer
or make deals with their local and state officials

or

Move their Headquarters
and dodge the associated taxes that go along with that
but the idea that America is unfriendly to business due to over taxation is ridiculous

And I keep waiting for the definitive article or write up that shows how much its hurting
that really uses all the data and isn't predisposed to any one conclusion BEFORE its written

I think the American Tax system is horseshit! I shouldn't have to pay any taxes!!!!!

[CAA Flagship]

The point is:
If America's largest corporations don;t like the TAX Structure
They mostly just pass it on to the consumer
or make deals with their local and state officials

or

Move their Headquarters
and dodge the associated taxes that go along with that
but the idea that America is unfriendly to business due to over taxation is ridiculous

And I keep waiting for the definitive article or write up that shows how much its hurting
that really uses all the data and isn't predisposed to any one conclusion BEFORE its written

I think the American Tax system is horseshit! I shouldn't have to pay any taxes!!!!!

This is a typical response from the entitled libtards. kalm, you have really crossed the line here. What the hell are you thinking? Either participate in society or get the hell out (and you wouldn't have to go too far north to do it). What makes you so special that you shouldn't pay taxes? How about we strip all the services that you receive that taxes help pay for? What then? Will you cry and say that water is a "right"? Your kid's education is a "right"? The smooth road surface is a "right"?















BTW: I know you were kidding.

[JohnStOnge]

[JohnStOnge]

KA-FUCKING-BOOM!!!

Forcing a minimum wage is forcing people to pay more for something than it is worth. If you're forcing someone to pay more for something than they want to pay, whether it's labor or anything else, you're forcing them to pay more for something than it's worth. I could go on to discuss why that is so, but I think you can figure it out. The concept of requiring a minimum wage is a bad concept and it always has been.

[kalm]

I think the American Tax system is horseshit! I shouldn't have to pay any taxes!!!!!

This is a typical response from the entitled libtards. kalm, you have really crossed the line here. What the hell are you thinking? Either participate in society or get the hell out (and you wouldn't have to go too far north to do it). What makes you so special that you shouldn't pay taxes? How about we strip all the services that you receive that taxes help pay for? What then? Will you cry and say that water is a "right"? Your kid's education is a "right"? The smooth road surface is a "right"?















BTW: I know you were kidding.

Why you dirty rotten son of a....shaking my fist emoji!!!!!!!!!

[Chizzang]

KA-FUCKING-BOOM!!!

Forcing a minimum wage is forcing people to pay more for something than it is worth. If you're forcing someone to pay more for something than they want to pay, whether it's labor or anything else, you're forcing them to pay more for something than it's worth. I could go on to discuss why that is so, but I think you can figure it out. The concept of requiring a minimum wage is a bad concept and it always has been.

Sure,
The labor Union is a terrible concept also
But why stop there

The Stock Markets and the idea that stock represents a portion of ownership of a corporation....
Complete and utter nonsense - talk about smoke and mirrors

How about a country designed by Lawyers...
That's a terrible idea

Yet here we are...
John there are so many BAD BAD ideas that we now live under
minimum wage is hardly as bad as Grand Utopia Religion and Cosmic Santa Claus

If you're going to talk about "bad Ideas" find one that really is BAD..!!!

[Baldy]

Only to the 4 guys who get bonus money?

Not to the thousands of people who lose their jobs?
Not to the local and state governments who lose tax revenue when they leave?
Not the the US Treasury which is who these people are running away from?

Take a break Cleets...you're losing it.

It's funny how you imply THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of lost jobs
Because they "moved their Headquarters"

Really Apple..?
and Ingersol-Rand
and all these major companies who are hiring in the US right now
So what exactly are we losing exactly - not vaguely with implication - but EXACTLY
So Apple is now an overseas company


Educate me Baldy

I didn't imply "thousands and thousands". I SAID thousands (once not twice) of jobs. Jeezus, can you get anything right?

Just one example...Apple has 4000 employees at it's Cork, Ireland "headquarters". That's 4000 jobs that should be in the US if it wasn't for the fact that Ireland is a tax haven.
When these corporations and former corporations keep their money out of the US, they don't invest in the US costing jobs in the US.

It's not that hard, Cleetus. I hope I don't have to hold your hand forever.

[Baldy]

Only to the 4 guys who get bonus money?

Not to the thousands of people who lose their jobs?
Not to the local and state governments who lose tax revenue when they leave?
Not the the US Treasury which is who these people are running away from?

Take a break Cleets...you're losing it.

Baldy the fair trade populist!



Take a break, son. You're getting it handed to you like a Joltin Joe in an abortion thread.

And in jumps klam looking for a reacharound.



You might want to go chase some cars there Chester. You're in way too far over your head.

[AZGrizFan]

Anyone that reads this thread and thinks that chizzy is somehow "winning" should have their head examined.

[Chizzang]

Anyone that reads this thread and thinks that chizzy is somehow "winning" should have their head examined.

So Baldy's big lesson for me was .002
I don't see 4,000 jobs in Cork Ireland as something to get excited about when they have 1.9 million jobs they are responsible for as of 2015

That's .002

So yeah... Whatever



Mostly this is a Republitard talking point amounting to nothing but HOT AIR
Apple is a global company with 67% of their jobs in the US
Yet the US accounts for only 38% of global sales
In what universe do Global companies have all of their employees in one country..?

http://www.apple.com/about/job-creation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's nothing wrong with the US Corporate tax code
If companies can benefit from taking advantage of loopholes - good for them

Anything else we should ALARMED ABOUT..!!!!
you two drama queens are hilarious - but I am enjoying this

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfp34-ruvGE[/youtube]

[AZGrizFan]

Anyone that reads this thread and thinks that chizzy is somehow "winning" should have their head examined.

So Baldy's big lesson for me was .002
I don't see 4,000 jobs in Cork Ireland as something to get excited about when they have 1.9 million jobs they are responsible for as of 2015

That's .002

So yeah... Whatever



Mostly this is a Republitard talking point amounting to nothing but HOT AIR
Apple is a global company with 67% of their jobs in the US
Yet the US accounts for only 38% of global sales
In what universe do Global companies have all of their employees in one country..?

http://www.apple.com/about/job-creation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's nothing wrong with the US Corporate tax code
If companies can benefit from taking advantage of loopholes - good for them

Anything else we should ALARMED ABOUT..!!!!
you two drama queens are hilarious - but I am enjoying this

Here's a little newsflash. There's 1000 companies just like them. Many with much larger presence overseas than before.

[Baldy]

Anyone that reads this thread and thinks that chizzy is somehow "winning" should have their head examined.

So Baldy's big lesson for me was .002
I don't see 4,000 jobs in Cork Ireland as something to get excited about when they have 1.9 million jobs they are responsible for as of 2015

That's .002

So yeah... Whatever



Mostly this is a Republitard talking point amounting to nothing but HOT AIR
Apple is a global company with 67% of their jobs in the US
Yet the US accounts for only 38% of global sales
In what universe do Global companies have all of their employees in one country..?

http://www.apple.com/about/job-creation/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

There's nothing wrong with the US Corporate tax code
If companies can benefit from taking advantage of loopholes - good for them

Anything else we should ALARMED ABOUT..!!!!
you two drama queens are hilarious - but I am enjoying this

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfp34-ruvGE[/youtube]

I don't expect companies like Apple, Pfizer, etc, to not have operations and employees overseas (lots of them), but you have got to be seriously fucked in the head if you think corporate inversions don't cost the US jobs...lots of jobs (directly and indirectly).

[kalm]

A bit tortuous at the start, but some interesting points here including the Johnson Controls deal. Bottom line, we condone this behavior. Breath easy. The bailouts, inversions, "high tax rates" all a part of capitalism.

(I forget about Counterpunch. There is some nice work going on there sometimes)

JANUARY 28, 2016
Corporate Inversion: The American Way
by NORMAN POLLACK

I call that fascism, stripped of emotive content, and without necessarily invoking the existence of the concentration camp and gas chamber, because the telling feature in all of this, beyond an obviously militaristic mindset grounded in an hierarchical structure of status and power, is the corporatization of the total society: capitalism at the heart of the polity, that for which all of life is meant to serve. Capitalism and polity conterminous, no longer simply interpenetration of the two but an identity of structure and interest. America has carried this integrative process of a private-public conflation further than any other advanced capitalist power, state capitalism no longer a sufficient designation, or even capitalist state, but the state as the outer covering for capitalism proper, revealing its militaristic potential and hegemonic aspirations, tightly-bundled in a national context the better for the public realm to activate the private, inculcate patriotic devotion and submission in the people, and—bluntly—keep order. ..........


Wonderful, the clouds part. Pfizer “has sheltered $74 billion by holding it overseas and declaring that the money will remain abroad ‘indefinitely.’” Although the US government “taxes companies on their worldwide income, it doesn’t collect on earnings that remain abroad,” and in parentheses, further, and importantly, he writes: “Pfizer might be able to use its overseas cash in a merger with a foreign-domiciled company, like Allergan [the deal has not been consummated yet]. That could enable Pfizer to declare itself an Irish corporation, easing its tax problems.” Ireland, I toast thee, the leprechaun of monopoly capital, a hiding place of treasure, elf pledged not to reveal its location. One need only add: “On top of that $74 billion, Pfizer keeps an additional, unspecified amount abroad,” which Sommer calculates as another $70 billion. Our good Professor Weil thinks “tax domiciles abroad” can be advantageous to the US, encouraging multinationals to invest at home: “They might be more inclined to do so, he said, because they could book earnings abroad and bring the money back to America ‘without incurring that additional United States tax.’” In all of this, we see academic whoredom falling into step: Edward Kleinbard, former chief of staff of the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation, and now professor of law and business at Southern Cal, takes the position that “the morality of tax inversions was not an issue that C.E.O.s should even be expected to address. In his words, “’There is a moral imperative here, but it falls on the shoulders of Congress, not on corporations.’” Corporate self-interest, Sommer paraphrase, is an “economic model in place now,” and, again, Kleinbard, “’If the results are plainly inconsistent with the national interest, Congress has to fix things [which in buck-passing fashion, he is certain it will not]. We shouldn’t expect the corporate community to hold itself to values higher than the marketplace.’” A fitting epitaph for America.

Perhaps it is unnecessary to go beyond the factual material to a theoretical conclusion about the nature of corporatism, and corporate inversion as the deconstruction of an atavistic demand for profits, militarism, conquest, all resting on a submissive populace that transforms the human being into a commodity, and capitalism, far from being a political economy, takes on the dimensions of the State itself insofar as organizing the structure of social relations and keeping the people in a condition of somnambulant regimentation. The merger has now been effected, we can all rest at ease.

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/28/ ... rican-way/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Chizzang]

Agreed,
That article states fairly plainly what I've been trying to say - only better

1) Overseas Tax shelters aren't always bad for America
2) Corporations can't be expected to not act in self interest
3) Expecting Congress to "fix" things is ridiculous
4) The answer isn't just as simple as "lower taxes"




I' sure the two shrill drama queens will explode in horror at the .002

[AZGrizFan]

Agreed,
That article states fairly plainly what I've been trying to say - only better

1) Overseas Tax shelters aren't always bad for America
2) Corporations can't be expected to not act in self interest
3) Expecting Congress to "fix" things is ridiculous
4) The answer isn't just as simple as "lower taxes"




I' sure the two shrill drama queens will explode in horror at the .002

I don't believe anyone has suggested #2 or #3, so who's the drama queen?

[Baldy]

Agreed,
That article states fairly plainly what I've been trying to say - only better

1) Overseas Tax shelters aren't always bad for America
2) Corporations can't be expected to not act in self interest
3) Expecting Congress to "fix" things is ridiculous
4) The answer isn't just as simple as "lower taxes"




I' sure the two shrill drama queens will explode in horror at the .002

God I hope not, you and klam have exploded enough estrogen on this thread as it is. All we need now is corndawg and the three of you could have a Tupperware party.

Overseas tax shelters aren't always bad for America, but they certainly aren't good, either. I hope corporations act according to their own self interest, but their interests and America's interest should be more aligned than they are. Capital, like water and electricity is going to flow on the path of least resistance. That path now seems to be flowing in overseas tax shelters. The Holy Grail isn't just low tax rates, but that is the driving force to why these corporate inversions happen. It sucks, but the only way this gets fixed is through Congress. Obama's pen and phone aint gonna do shit this time.

[Chizzang]

Agreed,
That article states fairly plainly what I've been trying to say - only better

1) Overseas Tax shelters aren't always bad for America
2) Corporations can't be expected to not act in self interest
3) Expecting Congress to "fix" things is ridiculous
4) The answer isn't just as simple as "lower taxes"




I' sure the two shrill drama queens will explode in horror at the .002

God I hope not, you and klam have exploded enough estrogen on this thread as it is. All we need now is corndawg and the three of you could have a Tupperware party.

Overseas tax shelters aren't always bad for America, but they certainly aren't good, either. I hope corporations act according to their own self interest, but their interests and America's interest should be more aligned than they are. Capital, like water and electricity is going to flow on the path of least resistance. That path now seems to be flowing in overseas tax shelters. The Holy Grail isn't just low tax rates, but that is the driving force to why these corporate inversions happen. It sucks, but the only way this gets fixed is through Congress. Obama's pen and phone aint gonna do shit this time.

Things have a way of working themselves out...
15 years ago it was CHINA..!!! CHINA..!!!
we're all going to be unemployed

Now it's lower taxes for Corporations they're dying
and running away



What's Fox News going to tell you to girls to cry about next..?

[JohnStOnge]

The labor Union is a terrible concept also

I don't think it's a bad concept per se. The bad concept is having government come in and take sides.

I see nothing wrong, for example, with a bunch of workers forming a union and saying that if they don't get certain things they will refuse to work. The problem comes when government says that the employer is not completely free to just let those workers go and get others.

If what the workers have to offer is valuable enough and they can't be readily replaced the employer will bargain. If not they shouldn't have been stupid enough to do that. NFL football is an extreme example. We had an example of a players' strike and it really did hurt the NFL. What the top players had to offer was valuable and couldn't be replaced via the owners just going out and getting different players. The product wasn't as attractive.

But that the kind of thing that should determine things. Government should stay out of it completely.

[Chizzang]

The labor Union is a terrible concept also

I don't think it's a bad concept per se. The bad concept is having government come in and take sides.

I see nothing wrong, for example, with a bunch of workers forming a union and saying that if they don't get certain things they will refuse to work. The problem comes when government says that the employer is not completely free to just let those workers go and get others.

If what the workers have to offer is valuable enough and they can't be readily replaced the employer will bargain. If not they shouldn't have been stupid enough to do that. NFL football is an extreme example. We had an example of a players' strike and it really did hurt the NFL. What the top players had to offer was valuable and couldn't be replaced via the owners just going out and getting different players. The product wasn't as attractive.

But that the kind of thing that should determine things. Government should stay out of it completely.

I think you're describing the reign of terror during the French Revolution...

[kalm]

Agreed,
That article states fairly plainly what I've been trying to say - only better

1) Overseas Tax shelters aren't always bad for America
2) Corporations can't be expected to not act in self interest
3) Expecting Congress to "fix" things is ridiculous
4) The answer isn't just as simple as "lower taxes"




I' sure the two shrill drama queens will explode in horror at the .002

God I hope not, you and klam have exploded enough estrogen on this thread as it is. All we need now is corndawg and the three of you could have a Tupperware party.

Overseas tax shelters aren't always bad for America, but they certainly aren't good, either. I hope corporations act according to their own self interest, but their interests and America's interest should be more aligned than they are. Capital, like water and electricity is going to flow on the path of least resistance. That path now seems to be flowing in overseas tax shelters. The Holy Grail isn't just low tax rates, but that is the driving force to why these corporate inversions happen. It sucks, but the only way this gets fixed is through Congress. Obama's pen and phone aint gonna do shit this time.

Question: how do market forces align corporate self interest with Americas interests?

[JohnStOnge]

I think you're describing the reign of terror during the French Revolution...

No, I'm describing freedom. You have two parties. One wants to buy something and one wants to sell something. One wants to buy labor and one wants to sell it. Either party should be free to take or leave the deal the other offers. And government shouldn't be involved at all.

[JohnStOnge]

Corporate Inversion: The American Way
by NORMAN POLLACK

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/28/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... rican-way/

That has to be one of the most poorly written things I've ever seen. Look, I know you guys razz me about long posts and such. But that piece was horrible in terms of long, rambling sentences. Also it's like he went out of his way to use words most people are going to have to look up.

And also he said some ridiculous things. Like this:

America in the present-day is already conspicuous for its historical-structural corporatism, a systemic near-replication of what in the first-half of the 20th century had been tried and adopted in German, Italian, and Japanese fascism, where the lines between the State and Capitalism were removed in a unitary framework of government-business interpenetration.

I call that fascism,

That's just ridiculous. Obviously a very smart guy but that was a ridiculous article.

[kalm]

Corporate Inversion: The American Way
by NORMAN POLLACK

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/28/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ... rican-way/

That has to be one of the most poorly written things I've ever seen. Look, I know you guys razz me about long posts and such. But that piece was horrible in terms of long, rambling sentences. Also it's like he went out of his way to use words most people are going to have to look up.

And also he said some ridiculous things. Like this:

America in the present-day is already conspicuous for its historical-structural corporatism, a systemic near-replication of what in the first-half of the 20th century had been tried and adopted in German, Italian, and Japanese fascism, where the lines between the State and Capitalism were removed in a unitary framework of government-business interpenetration.

I call that fascism,

That's just ridiculous. Obviously a very smart guy but that was a ridiculous article.

I qualified the article with "tortuous". All you needed to do was agree with me. Instead, your reply is an example of why people find your posts also tortuous.

And you need to better understand the references to early 20th century fascism (also with qualifiers). The author is accurate here.