Castle Doctrine........Bit*h

[AZGrizFan]

<insert stupid, erroneous analogy here>

WHat's the difference? You're blaming the victim, just like rape apologists...

[Grizalltheway]

WHat's the difference? You're blaming the victim, just like rape apologists...

He was the victim of petty theft, not of someone entering his body without consent. But sure, basically the same thing.

And again, he didn't leave his garage open by accident. He did it on purpose and expressed the intent to shoot whoever happened to find their way in...which turned out to be an unarmed teenager who begged for his life as Kaarma kept firing.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

How he chose to leave his garage open or closed should be none of you business. The same with a woman's vagina, if she leaves it open nobody has the right to go inside, just like Karas garage.

If you do, deal with the consequences

[houndawg]

You also shouldn't bait kids into your garage and express a desire to "shoot some kid" to the person cutting your hair.

Dumb top talk to anyone about a planned killing...but that stuff about, "baiting" is nonsense. Stay out of people's garages and you'll be fine. Go in with the intent to steal, and you should be dead.

Baiting.

Say, there's a bunch of nice mansions in Greenville Delaware, and I'm sure there are nice things in those mansions. Those wealthy people are, by simply living in their flashy, big homes, baiting me to steal their stuff.

This guy's hearts desire was to shoot somebody and he did everything he could to make it happen, and he sees himself as a hero for killing an unarmed teenager in cold blood, including the now de riguer cop-style finishing shot to prevent confusing accounts of what happened. His neighbors were terrified of him and at least one called him a ticking bomb and said she wouldn't go outside when he was outside. If adolescent males had a working prefrontal cortex like everybody else I could understand the argument, taking into account its coming from someone too chickenshit to confront what he caught in his trap. I suppose it wouldn't surprise me to hear that you never did anything stupid as a teenager, but I think the rest of the men here of a certain age can all think of something they did that wasn't a huge deal back in the day, but could get you shot like a dog by the side of the road today.

[AZGrizFan]

WHat's the difference? You're blaming the victim, just like rape apologists...

He was the victim of petty theft, not of someone entering his body without consent. But sure, basically the same thing.

And again, he didn't leave his garage open by accident. He did it on purpose and expressed the intent to shoot whoever happened to find their way in...which turned out to be an unarmed teenager who begged for his life as Kaarma kept firing.

Doesn't change the comparison one iota. Even if a girl dresses like a slut "on purpose" doesn't mean she had it coming. That teen is just as responsible for his own death as Kaarma was. Doesn't make Kaarma any less of a dirt bag, but claiming that "if he'd just kept his shit locked up" none of this would have happened is myopic.

[houndawg]

I though Montana was a great place to live. Sadly, it's just like Baltimore, just more spread out, And whiter. Much much whiter.

...and I thought marijuana just made everybody lazy, happy and hungry.

I'm wondering what this wackjob would have been like if he didn't smoke weed...

[houndawg]

He was the victim of petty theft, not of someone entering his body without consent. But sure, basically the same thing.

And again, he didn't leave his garage open by accident. He did it on purpose and expressed the intent to shoot whoever happened to find their way in...which turned out to be an unarmed teenager who begged for his life as Kaarma kept firing.

Doesn't change the comparison one iota. Even if a girl dresses like a slut "on purpose" doesn't mean she had it coming. That teen is just as responsible for his own death as Kaarma was. Doesn't make Kaarma any less of a dirt bag, but claiming that "if he'd just kept his **** locked up" none of this would have happened is myopic.

I would agree under different circumstances. But: some teenagers stealing your weed and bongs doesn't require escalation to pre-meditated murder. Now run the same scenario except the homeowner catches the kid in the garage and whips his ass real proper. It doesn't even go to court and the kid is very likely shamed into straightening up his act a little. Hell, I'll bet the homeowner knew damn well that it was high school kids he was going to catch. Some kid, punk or not, begging for his life and you finish him off? I hope he goes to prison with a big rep as a bad hombre preceding him.

[Grizalltheway]

Doesn't change the comparison one iota. Even if a girl dresses like a slut "on purpose" doesn't mean she had it coming. That teen is just as responsible for his own death as Kaarma was. Doesn't make Kaarma any less of a dirt bag, but claiming that "if he'd just kept his **** locked up" none of this would have happened is myopic.

I would agree under different circumstances. But: some teenagers stealing your weed and bongs doesn't require escalation to pre-meditated murder. Now run the same scenario except the homeowner catches the kid in the garage and whips his ass real proper. It doesn't even go to court and the kid is very likely shamed into straightening up his act a little. Hell, I'll bet the homeowner knew damn well that it was high school kids he was going to catch. Some kid, punk or not, begging for his life and you finish him off? I hope he goes to prison with a big rep as a bad hombre preceding him.

Agreed. And Z, I'm trying to absolve the kid of all responsibility in this. But there's a reason trespassing and theft are misdemeanors and not capital offenses.

[BDKJMU]

A justifiable exception would be if the guy had been burglarized multiple times in the recent past. If it had happened 2 or more times before then he could have been justifiably pissed off, wanting to take out the next scumbag who broke into his garage, and I couldn't blame him.

If he hadn't been recently been burglarized multiple times, then never mind...

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

He was burglarized 2 or 3 other times...............its why he was pissed, but on Planet Missoula your stuff is for the thieves and you have to deal with them stealing it. No exceptions, its just theft after all.

[Vidav]

Someone stealing shit from your garage is not a reason to murder. Kick their ass? Sure. But theft is not a valid reason to kill.

I know Alpha never did anything stupid as a teen, so he doesn't understand. However the rest of us do. . .

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Someone stealing shit from your garage is not a reason to murder. Kick their ass? Sure. But theft is not a valid reason to kill.

I know Alpha never did anything stupid as a teen, so he doesn't understand. However the rest of us do. . .

You break into my garage at midnight, you will probably get more than your ass kicked. I am not going to take any chances and probably wont ask any questions, I would rather be alive and deal with shit afterwards. If that does happen there will only be one side of the story.

I did a lot of stuff when I was a kid and every single time I did, it was calculated. (why I never got caught) Anytime we were stealing boats, trucks or money I always knew there was a chance I could get shot, so I minimized that as much as possible. Doing your homework before hand can keep you out of a lot of bad situations.

I liked that death was an option.

[JohnStOnge]

I have always believed that if you're messing with someone else's property all bets are off and if you get killed you earned it. The property owner should not be prosecuted under any circumstances. And if the property owner set a trap for you tough titty. You wouldn't have fallen into the trap if you weren't trying to steal something.

The first time I can remember being outraged by the way the law is on that was probably back in the 80s. I heard a radio news story about a guy who had been having problems with people coming through some kind of vent or something in the roof of his shop and stealing stuff. So he rigged some kind of booby trap with a shotgun. Somebody coming in to steal got blasted and the shop owner was arrested and charged for setting the trap.

No way that should've happened. No way the law should be such that someone's arrested and charged for giving some thief what's coming to them like that.

[BDKJMU]

He was burglarized 2 or 3 other times...............its why he was pissed, but on Planet Missoula your stuff is for the thieves and you have to deal with them stealing it. No exceptions, its just theft after all.

Then it was justified..

[BDKJMU]

Someone stealing **** from your garage is not a reason to murder. Kick their ass? Sure. But theft is not a valid reason to kill.

I know Alpha never did anything stupid as a teen, so he doesn't understand. However the rest of us do. . .

Theft once, no. But 3 burglaries isn't enough in your mind? So how many burglaries should a guy have to suffer through before he can blow some punk burglar away? 4? 5? 6?

Burglarized once, and that pisses you off- dealing with the police, insurance, replacing your stuff, feeling violated. Twice would be enough to absolutely ENRAGE ANYONE. Totally justified to say "IVE HAD IT! and the next scumbag who attempts to burglarize my place I'M GOING TO BLOW HIS F'ING HEAD OFF.No person should have to suffer through 3 burglaries without being allowed take any measures to defend his property.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

Someone stealing **** from your garage is not a reason to murder. Kick their ass? Sure. But theft is not a valid reason to kill.

I know Alpha never did anything stupid as a teen, so he doesn't understand. However the rest of us do. . .

Theft once, no. But 3 burglaries isn't enough in your mind? So how many burglaries should a guy have to suffer through before he can blow some punk burglar away? 4? 5? 6?

Burglarized once, and that pisses you off- dealing with the police, insurance, replacing your stuff, feeling violated. Twice would be enough to absolutely ENRAGE ANYONE. Totally justified to say "IVE HAD IT! and the next scumbag who attempts to burglarize my place I'M GOING TO BLOW HIS F'ING HEAD OFF.No person should have to suffer through 3 burglaries without being allowed take any measures to defend his property.

You would think a guy being burglarized would go to the trouble of closing up his garage door. I mean whether you should have to or not doesn't matter...you shouldn't have to. I should be able to walk down the streets of any large city with a bag of cash but I'd be a fucking idiot to do so. I need to do something to mitigate what I know to be a danger or else I need to take a good share of the responsibility for whatever outcome comes about. The fact that you are such a fucking moron that after being robbed several times you again go and leave it setup with your garage open means you should be out of the gene pool as well because you are way to fucking dumb to make sure humanity continues into the future anyway.

If you are setting up a situation so you can take a life as opposed to just closing your garage then go fuck yourself, you are a a piece of shit that should be taken out of society because we can't have fucking morons going around setting up what their ideal of society is on their own. He got what he has coming and hopefully society won't see this shitbag again.

You see this is the disconnect here. Both fucking sides to this want to argue the absolutes of the situation instead of what really happened. Funny cuz it's also the conservative people making these fucking moron arguments which means even when a gun guy does it wrong some of you jump to their defense or don't see it for what it really is and try to separate what you are from what this dullard is. Sad cuz I've see a lot of you also question why muslims don't stand up to their own when they do bad shit. It's an odd trait to share.

[YoUDeeMan]

And Z, I'm trying to absolve the kid of all responsibility in this.

[YoUDeeMan]

So Vidav and a few others would want to kick the burgler's arse...and then everything would be right in the natural world. No lawsuits...no trial...everyone gets to man up and play their role, learn a lesson, and go home better for the exchange.

What if the guy had a gun...and you ended up dead. Yeah, your children and wife would be proud of your decision to get killed while attempting to kick some azz and dispense a life lesson to a dirt bag.

What if you hit the guy and he had a heart condition and ended up dead? But officer...I didn't know he was that weak...I just wanted to kick his azz and teach him a lesson.

In the end, if you want to take the law into your own hands, play lawman, and dispense your own justice, then do so...but you can't decide what that vigilante justice limit is for someone else. Either you avoid a physical confrontation and let the guy rob you and let the system (police, courts, etc.) deal with it, or you decide that the homeowner gets to decide what type of response they want to pursue.

Personally, I believe people lose their rights when they choose to invade your home/property. The loss to a person/family being robbed is not only physical, it can also lead to emotional damages that can last a lifetime, especially in the old and the young. Our homes should be safe places for ourselves and our family members...everyone, really, and a person's home should not be violated. Cross that line, you lose your rights.

Either way, I don't care. At least be consistent.

[Vidav]

So Vidav and a few others would want to kick the burgler's arse...and then everything would be right in the natural world. No lawsuits...no trial...everyone gets to man up and play their role, learn a lesson, and go home better for the exchange.

What if the guy had a gun...and you ended up dead. Yeah, your children and wife would be proud of your decision to get killed while attempting to kick some azz and dispense a life lesson to a dirt bag.

What if you hit the guy and he had a heart condition and ended up dead? But officer...I didn't know he was that weak...I just wanted to kick his azz and teach him a lesson.

In the end, if you want to take the law into your own hands, play lawman, and dispense your own justice, then do so...but you can't decide what that vigilante justice limit is for someone else. Either you avoid a physical confrontation and let the guy rob you and let the system (police, courts, etc.) deal with it, or you decide that the homeowner gets to decide what type of response they want to pursue.

Personally, I believe people lose their rights when they choose to invade your home/property. The loss to a person/family being robbed is not only physical, it can also lead to emotional damages that can last a lifetime, especially in the old and the young. Our homes should be safe places for ourselves and our family members...everyone, really, and a person's home should not be violated. Cross that line, you lose your rights.

Either way, I don't care. At least be consistent.

I didn't say that is what I would do. I said you earn an ass kicking for stealing. You don't earn the death penalty. If you are the type to confront them, then you shouldn't go straight for execution. The punishment does not fit the crime.

[BDKJMU]

What about whatever placement service that sent a juvenile delinquent exchange student over here? Do they share any blame in this?
-What about the host parents? Didn't they bother to warn the kid that this ain't Germany, it's Montana, and that if you break into someone's home you might get shot?
-What about any friends this kid had. Did they tell him the same thing or did they egg him on?

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

What about whatever placement service that sent a juvenile delinquent exchange student over here? Do they share any blame in this?
-What about the host parents? Didn't they bother to warn the kid that this ain't Germany, it's Montana, and that if you break into someone's home you might get shot?
-What about any friends this kid had. Did they tell him the same thing or did they egg him on?

Nothing there to disagree with. It's all things that could have or should have happened. I imagine he's here and hanging out with some kids and does some dumb shit with their backing/approval to make a mark or look cool.

Both parties are absolutely wrong and deserved some punishment for their actions. Being dead is just a bit much considering what this guy did to make sure he could kill someone...because he was a little pissed and had an overinflated sense of self and what he should be able to do in a civilized society. He's doing good, hard time for it and he deserves to be doing it.

[Bronco]

I was shocked he didn't win on appeal and get a new trial
the Missoulian never just reports the news they always take sides

the kid with the shot German Muzzie was let off with a hand slap
Open season on open garages

watching the local news I was interested to hear that the locals showered the parents with gifts
never seen that before...City guilt I guess

the karma dude belongs in prison for opening his mouth telling people what he was going to do and shooting at a sound in the dark multiple times

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

The thief was in the wrong, he kicked all of this into motion and wrecked a families life.

I would never convict or charge a person for defending their home, even if they put youtube videos up detailing how they would kill the next guy into their home. The law is wrong

Dont go into their home, problem solved.

[Ursus A. Horribilis]

The thief was in the wrong, he kicked all of this into motion and wrecked a families life.

I would never convict or charge a person for defending their home, even if they put youtube videos up detailing how they would kill the next guy into their home. The law is wrong

Dont go into their home, problem solved.

Not one person, not one, is saying this isn't a fact. Stick to it if you want to but it's a dumb premise since we all agree on that.

The other guy also gets his because he's a piece of premeditating shit so it would be OK if you personally wouldn't convict him. Luckily, the jury of his peers that live around the dork saw to it that he goes away for a long time. They were correct.

[JohnStOnge]

We just disagree and you guys get your way because the law is what it is. But if I had my way it wouldn't matter how it happened, whether the property owner "enticed" the thief, or anything like that. If you make the decision to steal something all bets should be off. I don't care if someone makes a sport of putting valuable things out where people can see them then hides and picks off people when they try to come take it. If you don't try to take other people's stuff you're not going to get picked off. And the person that sets a trap like that is doing the society a favor by getting rid of people who would steal like that.