Next major shift in College Football

[SDHornet]

And when do you really think the government is gonna step in and blow up the BCS? Why does the BCS need to exist for their to be 4 super conferences? Being in one of the 4 super conferences will still give a team the best chance to make the playoffs just like how being in a BCS conference in college basketball helps a school get into the NCAA tournament. IMO, I hope the Government doesn't step in and get rid of the BCS because there are more important things for them to worry about.

We have 15 departments exactly for the reason that the government can worry about many things at once, so there's no reason they shouldn't step in. The BCS is a for-profit organization that might be creating a monopoly in college athletics, which would be completely illegal under federal laws. I'd be concerned if the Justice Department doesn't at least investigates the BCS. If they don't, then the government wouldn't be doing the job we citizens have paid them to do (in this case dealing with antitrust laws).

And I never said anything about playoffs. I don't think there'll be any playoffs if the BCS is broken apart; the government doesn't have the power to force it and the bowls still make the most financial sense. If the BCS ceases to exist, we'll probably see a return of something similar to the 80s and early 90s bowl system, which is why superconferences wouldn't make sense anymore.

The schools that attend non-BCS bowls (with the exception of a few) are typically stuck with a hefty tab and these non-BCS bowls make 0 financial sense for the attending schools. Hell wasn't UConn stuck with a $1M loss and they were in the fucking Fiesta Bowl.

[kemajic]

The schools that attend non-BCS bowls (with the exception of a few) are typically stuck with a hefty tab and these non-BCS bowls make 0 financial sense for the attending schools. Hell wasn't UConn stuck with a $1M loss and they were in the **** Fiesta Bowl.

How many FBS teams turn these unfavorable bowl bids down?

[clenz]

The schools that attend non-BCS bowls (with the exception of a few) are typically stuck with a hefty tab and these non-BCS bowls make 0 financial sense for the attending schools. Hell wasn't UConn stuck with a $1M loss and they were in the **** Fiesta Bowl.

How many FBS teams turn these unfavorable bowl bids down?

Notre Dame turned a bowl down a couple years ago.

It doesn't happen much, but it does happen.

[AZGrizFan]

The schools that attend non-BCS bowls (with the exception of a few) are typically stuck with a hefty tab and these non-BCS bowls make 0 financial sense for the attending schools. Hell wasn't UConn stuck with a $1M loss and they were in the fucking Fiesta Bowl.

That's because UConn travels like shit.

[clenz]

That's because UConn travels like shit.

I should pull the stats from Death to the BCS again, like I did on opie....the stats on how little teams make, even during a NC run (2007 Florida Netted less than 50K) from bowls.

[Skjellyfetti]

Damn! Florida only netted 50k from their bowl in 2007!!! That sucks!!! Imagine how much dough they pulled in from the FCS playoffs!

[clenz]

Damn! Florida only netted 50k from their bowl in 2007!!! That sucks!!! Imagine how much dough they pulled in from the FCS playoffs!

2 or 3 more home games....I'd bet they'd make more than 50K

[TwinTownBisonFan]

The Big Ten thinks very highly of its academics. Something about TIER 1 research universities.

Oklahoma State is like Tier 394, so there's no way they're getting an invitation unless the Big10/11/12 is totally desperate.

yeah - but Nebraska isn't exactly a public ivy or anything... the Big10 let them in anyway...

[TwinTownBisonFan]

The schools that attend non-BCS bowls (with the exception of a few) are typically stuck with a hefty tab and these non-BCS bowls make 0 financial sense for the attending schools. Hell wasn't UConn stuck with a $1M loss and they were in the **** Fiesta Bowl.

How many FBS teams turn these unfavorable bowl bids down?

read "Death to the BCS" - it explains EXACTLY while schools don't turn down bids, despite LOSING money on them.

in short:

perceived prestige
national television exposure
a belief that alumni donations will flow as a result
school presidents and AD's love the junket

[clenz]

From the book, I did some summing up....I posted this same thing on another thread


Chapter Four: Lies, Damn Lies, and Bowl Payouts
Chapter four goes into detail about how many bowl games lose universities thousands upon thousands of dollars despite the relative wealth earned by the bowls themselves.

A story is told about the 2008 Motor City Bowl and how San Jose State and Florida Atlantic tried to gain entrance to the postseason show by seeing who could bid the lowest and be accepted.

The game advertised a $750,000 payout, but Florida Atlantic settled on receiving zero cash, but 750k in tickets. Obviously, FAU was unable to sell that many tickets at full-price and ended up over $41,000 short of budget to send its 126-person traveling party to the bowl.

Other facts and figures:
*Bowl game appearances trigger bonuses for many coaches and athletic department staffers. Alabama paid a total of $1.3 million to its staff after the 2010 BCS title game.
*2008 Papajohns.com Bowl advertised a payout of $300,000, but required each school to sell 10,000 tickets. During this trip Rutgers lost $214,000 in unsold tickets, paid $270,000 in bonuses to its coaches and athletic department, and ultimately spent $1.2 million. Rutgers executives spent $28,950 getting to the game and spent $60,168 over the six days in Birmingham, Alabama. At the time the school was coming off a New Jersey state audit for its wasteful spending on their trip to the 2006 Texas Bowl.
*For the 2009 Outback Bowl, Iowa ate $150,000 in unsold tickets, spent $328,340 on its band for the trip, also being charged $65 per game ticket for each band member ($22,490 total).
*Ohio State spent $2 million to appear in the 2010 Rose Bowl and lost $1 million in unsold seats in the 2009 Fiesta Bowl. Maryland spent $1 million to play in the Humanitarian Bowl with a $750,000 payout. Virginia Tech spent $3.8 million for the 2009 Orange Bowl and lost $1.6 million.
*Florida’s appearance in the 2009 BCS title game came with an advertised payout of $17.5 million, but after the SEC took that money and other payouts from the conferences seven bowl games, Florida ended up with a payout of $2.467 million. After the costs of playing a bowl game within their own state, the Gators ended up with a profit of $47,000.

To quote the authors, “Bowl directors estimate that only fourteen of the thirty-five games generate a legitimate profit for the participating teams.


Chapter Three: Obstruction of Justice

This chapter looks at how corrupt and full of deceit the BCS powers-that-be truly are. It begins with a look back at CEO of the Alamo Bowl Derrick Fox’s testimony in front of the House Energy and Commerce subcommittee in May 2009.

A playoff system would cripple these bowl directors gravy train and they will do anything to prop up the current BCS system.

Fox stated before Congress, “Almost all postseason bowl games are put on by charitable groups, and since up to one-quarter of the proceeds from the games are dedicated to the community, local charities received tens of millions of dollars a year.”

The authors go to town destroying this argument with facts and figures:

*27 bowls enjoy not-for-profit status and do not pay taxes

*Not a single bowl game is run by a group that can be considered a charity. They are businesses first and foremost.

*23 bowl games with public records received $7.5 million in direct government handouts.

*The Sugar Bowl received $3 million in funding from Louisiana in 2007 and has its own lobbying firm to ensure its public financing. The organization brought in $34.1 million in revenue and gave ZERO money to charity, despite pulling $11.6 million in tax-free profit and $37 million in assets.

*Sugar Bowl executive director Paul Hoolahan received $607,500 in compensation for fiscal 2008. Associate executive director Jeff Hundley took in $375, 732.

*The Sugar Bowl cronies live lavishly spending thousands of dollars every year including, $494,177 for “entertainment” in 2005, $201,226 for “gifts and bonuses” in 2007, $330,244 for “decorations” in 2007, plus many, many more.

*The 23 tax-exempt bowls produced $186 million in revenue, including $141 million in net assets, but combined to give just $3.2 million (1.7 percent of revenue) to charity. More than half that charity came from just two bowls, the Orange and Chick-fil-A.

The rest of the chapter deals with the corruption that is starting to spring up as bowls like the Fiesta are reportedly contributing to political friends and allies to protect the Cartel system.

The Fiesta acknowledges spending $4 million since 2000 “on lobbyists, trips, dinners, and golf retreats to build relationships with athletic officials who control the BCS and to garner support from politicians.” The Arizona attorney general is currently investigating the matter.

The authors deride this and claim the $4 million could be sitting in coffers of colleges and universities, but instead it is wasted to protect the current BCS.

[alvin kayak]

I give a thumps up to "Death to the BCS"

Anyone see Nick Saban's hilarious quotation on CFLive?

"College football IS NOT A BUSINESS. It's revenue-producing. All the money gets reinvested."

That is going to be my new signature.

[ODUalum11]

I give a thumps up to "Death to the BCS"

Anyone see Nick Saban's hilarious quotation on CFLive?

"College football IS NOT A BUSINESS. It's revenue-producing. All the money gets reinvested."

That is going to be my new signature.

Isn't that what a business is?

[SuperHornet]

I give a thumps up to "Death to the BCS"

Anyone see Nick Saban's hilarious quotation on CFLive?

"College football IS NOT A BUSINESS. It's revenue-producing. All the money gets reinvested."

That is going to be my new signature.

Isn't that what a business is?

I'll take a stab at it.

A "normal" business exists to produce profits which, after some portion is reinvested in product and procedural improvements, is distributed to investors in the form of a dividend.

College ATHLETICS exist for the purpose of augmenting the collegiate learning experience. Any profit generated is reinvested into other aspects of the academic environment. Of course, in most cases, such profit is actually NEGATIVE, thereby forcing the administration to subsidize it. As much as some would have it, football is NOT separate from the rest of the athletic program, and does not always make a profit, as we have discussed ad nauseam in other threads.

[ODUalum11]

Isn't that what a business is?

I'll take a stab at it.

A "normal" business exists to produce profits which, after some portion is reinvested in product and procedural improvements, is distributed to investors in the form of a dividend.

College ATHLETICS exist for the purpose of augmenting the collegiate learning experience. Any profit generated is reinvested into other aspects of the academic environment. Of course, in most cases, such profit is actually NEGATIVE, thereby forcing the administration to subsidize it. As much as some would have it, football is NOT separate from the rest of the athletic program, and does not always make a profit, as we have discussed ad nauseam in other threads.

sounds good, but I still think colleges and universities are businesses. Especially after dealing with several issues I've had with ODU over the course of my 4 years as a student at ODU.

[89Hen]

sounds good, but I still think colleges and universities are businesses. Especially after dealing with several issues I've had with ODU over the course of my 4 years as a student at ODU.

They are always trying to increase revenues while managing expenses, so they are very much like any other business, but the profit does go to a different place. Could just be semantics, but...

[AZGrizFan]

Isn't that what a business is?

I'll take a stab at it.

A "normal" business exists to produce profits which, after some portion is reinvested in product and procedural improvements, is distributed to investors in the form of a dividend.

College ATHLETICS exist for the purpose of augmenting the collegiate learning experience. Any profit generated is reinvested into other aspects of the academic environment. Of course, in most cases, such profit is actually NEGATIVE, thereby forcing the administration to subsidize it. As much as some would have it, football is NOT separate from the rest of the athletic program, and does not always make a profit, as we have discussed ad nauseam in other threads.

Most "normal businesses" pay their bills, then reinvest the vast majority of their $$ BACK into the business. The vast majority of businesses out there don't pay "dividends" and aren't publicly held.

[alvin kayak]

Most "normal businesses" pay their bills, then reinvest the vast majority of their $$ BACK into the business. The vast majority of businesses out there don't pay "dividends" and aren't publicly held.

Correct

[AZGrizFan]

Most "normal businesses" pay their bills, then reinvest the vast majority of their $$ BACK into the business. The vast majority of businesses out there don't pay "dividends" and aren't publicly held.

Correct

Thank you.

[SDHornet]

How many FBS teams turn these unfavorable bowl bids down?

read "Death to the BCS" - it explains EXACTLY while schools don't turn down bids, despite LOSING money on them.

in short:

perceived prestige
national television exposure
a belief that alumni donations will flow as a result
school presidents and AD's love the junket

This. Don't forget the fact that tax payers are the ones left footing the tab for those public universities that loose out on these bowl "revenues". Why would a public university turn down a bowl bid when they have an endless source of funds at their disposal. (This is also mention in "Death to the BCS".) That book is a great tool against the "there is a pot of gold waiting for FCS schools in the FBS" crowd.

[CAA Flagship]

While I don't disagree with the numbers shown above regarding the net profit/loss for the participating schools at certain bowl games, I don't think looking at net numbers tells the whole story. I think if you compare expenses (outside of the cost of tickets), you will find that many schools unecessarily spend lavishly on these bowl trips. The cost of a travel party of approx. 125 people should not be that much different for a team that travels from Florida to Toronto compared to one that travels from Ohio to Arizona. But what you will probably see is a 10-20 fold difference. In other words, some schools waste a lot of money. Extra days on the trip, nicer hotels and amenities, more expensive meals, etc. Some of these schools simply mismanage their finances.

[AZGrizFan]

While I don't disagree with the numbers shown above regarding the net profit/loss for the participating schools at certain bowl games, I don't think looking at net numbers tells the whole story. I think if you compare expenses (outside of the cost of tickets), you will find that many schools unecessarily spend lavishly on these bowl trips. The cost of a travel party of approx. 125 people should not be that much different for a team that travels from Florida to Toronto compared to one that travels from Ohio to Arizona. But what you will probably see is a 10-20 fold difference. In other words, some schools waste a lot of money. Extra days on the trip, nicer hotels and amenities, more expensive meals, etc. Some of these schools simply mismanage their finances.

It's the American way, Flagship.

[SDHornet]

While I don't disagree with the numbers shown above regarding the net profit/loss for the participating schools at certain bowl games, I don't think looking at net numbers tells the whole story. I think if you compare expenses (outside of the cost of tickets), you will find that many schools unecessarily spend lavishly on these bowl trips. The cost of a travel party of approx. 125 people should not be that much different for a team that travels from Florida to Toronto compared to one that travels from Ohio to Arizona. But what you will probably see is a 10-20 fold difference. In other words, some schools waste a lot of money. Extra days on the trip, nicer hotels and amenities, more expensive meals, etc. Some of these schools simply mismanage their finances.

A lot (if not all) of the bowls require the schools to waste money. Some bowls require each team to stay a certain number of days in a certain hotel (for parades and whatever other appearances are required as well as sponsorship obligations spelled out in the bowl contract) thereby increasing hotel and food expenses and then there are the tickets each participating school is forced to buy. Schools are then stuck with a lot of tickets because people can buy them cheaper through Stubhub or some other 3rd party ticket seller. Bowls do nothing but line the pockets of the bowl execs at the expense of the universities (tax payers if public). I am sure the schools do mismanage some funds but when they are required to have their teams and coaches make appearances and whatnot for the bowl festivities, it puts the schools in a tough spot.

The saving grace is the BCS schools have the BCS bowl money socialized among the conference so that it can subsidize the heavy losses taken by other schools in the other bowls. Hence why Florida only made 50k on their NC season and why it is a money loser for the non-BCS conferences to go to the other bowls.