O-BOMB-A Raised My Taxes..

[hank scorpio]

To use my example, E. WA is overwhelmingly conk. Corporate welfare and subsidies is > social welfare. Conks are just as good about sucking at the govmint teat. They talk a better game though.

In Montana those folks vote blue.

BY POLITICAL PARTY
Of the legislators benefitting from farm subsidy programs over the study period, 90.9% were Republicans (thirty) and
9.1% were Democrats (three). Farms and ranches owned by Republicans received 98.8% of the subsidy money
($6,976,120.00) and those of Democrats received 1.2% ($79,499.00) (see Table D, Chart C and Chart D).
Per individual, Republican legislators benefitted more from farm subsidy programs from 1995-2009 than Democrat
legislators. The farms and ranches of Republican legislators who participated in farm subsidy programs from 1995-2009
received an average of $232,537.00 per operation. Those of Democratic legislators received an average of $26,500.00
per operation (see Graph D).

FARM OR RANCH OPERATIONS13 FROM 1995-2009
LEGISLATOR AMOUNT PAID TO FARM OR RANCH PARTY DISTRICT TOWN
SEN. ALAN OLSON $47.00 R SD 23 ROUNDUP
REP. DON ROBERTS $271.00 R HD 56 BILLINGS
REP. KELLY FLYNN $324.00 R HD 68 TOWNSEND
SEN. CLIFF LARSEN $732.00 D SD 50 MISSOULA
REP. JEFFREY WELBORN $972.00 R HD 72 DILLON
REP. MATTHEW ROSENDALE 14 $1,083.00 R HD 38 GLENDIVE
REP. RANDY BRODEHL $1,863.00 R HD 7 KALISPELL
REP. JOE READ $2,233.00 R HD 15 RONAN
REP. TOM BERRY $2,819.00 R HD 45 ROUNDUP
REP. WALTER MCNUTT 15 $4,121.00 R HD 37 SIDNEY
SEN. BRADLEY HAMLETT $5,458.00 D SD 10 CASCADE
REP. STERLING SMALL $7,677.00 R HD 41 BUSBY
SEN. ERIC MOORE $20,781.00 R SD 20 MILES CITY
REP. LILA EVANS $35,879.00 R HD 16 BROWNING
REP. TONY BELCOURT $73,309.00 D HD 32 BOX ELDER
REP. ROY HOLLANDSWORTH $80,675.00 R HD 28 BRADY
SEN. RICK RIPLEY $89,847.00 R SD 9 WOLF CREEK
REP. CHRISTY CLARK 16 $122,287.00 R HD 17 CHOTEAU
SEN. DEBBY BARRETT 17 $123,378.00 R SD 36 DILLON
REP. MIKE MILBURN $141,770.00 R HD 19 CASCADE
SEN. TERRY MURPHY $188,427.00 R SD 39 CARDWELL
SEN. RON ARTHUN $213,800.00 R SD 31 WILSALL
REP. DANIEL SALOMON 18 $223,865.00 R HD 12 RONAN
SEN. DONALD STEINBEISSER 19 $241,761.00 R SD 19 SIDNEY
REP. KEITH REGIER 20 $380,160.00 R HD 5 KALISPELL
SEN. TAYLOR BROWN 21 $473,563.00 R SD 22 HUNTLEY
SEN. JOHN BRENDEN 22 $497,291.00 R SD 18 SCOBEY
REP. LEE RANDALL 23 $507,674.00 R HD 39 BROADUS
SEN. LLEW JONES $609,508.00 R SD 14 CONRAD
SEN. JIM PETERSON $637,547.00 R SD 15 BUFFALO
SEN. BRUCE TUTVEDT $643,063.00 R SD 3 KALISPELL
REP. AUSTIN KNUDSEN 24 $705,941.00 R HD 36 CULBERTSON
REP. JANNA TAYLOR 25 $1,017,491.00 R HD 11 DAYTON

http://www.thepolicyinstitute.org/web_report.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2011 MT Legislature
House
69 Conk - 32 Donk
Senate 28 Conk - 22 Donk

[AZGrizFan]

In Montana those folks vote blue.

BY POLITICAL PARTY
Of the legislators benefitting from farm subsidy programs over the study period, 90.9% were Republicans (thirty) and
9.1% were Democrats (three). Farms and ranches owned by Republicans received 98.8% of the subsidy money
($6,976,120.00) and those of Democrats received 1.2% ($79,499.00) (see Table D, Chart C and Chart D).
Per individual, Republican legislators benefitted more from farm subsidy programs from 1995-2009 than Democrat
legislators. The farms and ranches of Republican legislators who participated in farm subsidy programs from 1995-2009
received an average of $232,537.00 per operation. Those of Democratic legislators received an average of $26,500.00
per operation (see Graph D).

FARM OR RANCH OPERATIONS13 FROM 1995-2009
LEGISLATOR AMOUNT PAID TO FARM OR RANCH PARTY DISTRICT TOWN
SEN. ALAN OLSON $47.00 R SD 23 ROUNDUP
REP. DON ROBERTS $271.00 R HD 56 BILLINGS
REP. KELLY FLYNN $324.00 R HD 68 TOWNSEND
SEN. CLIFF LARSEN $732.00 D SD 50 MISSOULA
REP. JEFFREY WELBORN $972.00 R HD 72 DILLON
REP. MATTHEW ROSENDALE 14 $1,083.00 R HD 38 GLENDIVE
REP. RANDY BRODEHL $1,863.00 R HD 7 KALISPELL
REP. JOE READ $2,233.00 R HD 15 RONAN
REP. TOM BERRY $2,819.00 R HD 45 ROUNDUP
REP. WALTER MCNUTT 15 $4,121.00 R HD 37 SIDNEY
SEN. BRADLEY HAMLETT $5,458.00 D SD 10 CASCADE
REP. STERLING SMALL $7,677.00 R HD 41 BUSBY
SEN. ERIC MOORE $20,781.00 R SD 20 MILES CITY
REP. LILA EVANS $35,879.00 R HD 16 BROWNING
REP. TONY BELCOURT $73,309.00 D HD 32 BOX ELDER
REP. ROY HOLLANDSWORTH $80,675.00 R HD 28 BRADY
SEN. RICK RIPLEY $89,847.00 R SD 9 WOLF CREEK
REP. CHRISTY CLARK 16 $122,287.00 R HD 17 CHOTEAU
SEN. DEBBY BARRETT 17 $123,378.00 R SD 36 DILLON
REP. MIKE MILBURN $141,770.00 R HD 19 CASCADE
SEN. TERRY MURPHY $188,427.00 R SD 39 CARDWELL
SEN. RON ARTHUN $213,800.00 R SD 31 WILSALL
REP. DANIEL SALOMON 18 $223,865.00 R HD 12 RONAN
SEN. DONALD STEINBEISSER 19 $241,761.00 R SD 19 SIDNEY
REP. KEITH REGIER 20 $380,160.00 R HD 5 KALISPELL
SEN. TAYLOR BROWN 21 $473,563.00 R SD 22 HUNTLEY
SEN. JOHN BRENDEN 22 $497,291.00 R SD 18 SCOBEY
REP. LEE RANDALL 23 $507,674.00 R HD 39 BROADUS
SEN. LLEW JONES $609,508.00 R SD 14 CONRAD
SEN. JIM PETERSON $637,547.00 R SD 15 BUFFALO
SEN. BRUCE TUTVEDT $643,063.00 R SD 3 KALISPELL
REP. AUSTIN KNUDSEN 24 $705,941.00 R HD 36 CULBERTSON
REP. JANNA TAYLOR 25 $1,017,491.00 R HD 11 DAYTON

http://www.thepolicyinstitute.org/web_report.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2011 MT Legislature
House
69 Conk - 32 Donk
Senate 28 Conk - 22 Donk

Damn you and your cussed facts, hank scorpio.

[TwinTownBisonFan]

In Montana those folks vote blue.

BY POLITICAL PARTY
Of the legislators benefitting from farm subsidy programs over the study period, 90.9% were Republicans (thirty) and
9.1% were Democrats (three). Farms and ranches owned by Republicans received 98.8% of the subsidy money
($6,976,120.00) and those of Democrats received 1.2% ($79,499.00) (see Table D, Chart C and Chart D).
Per individual, Republican legislators benefitted more from farm subsidy programs from 1995-2009 than Democrat
legislators. The farms and ranches of Republican legislators who participated in farm subsidy programs from 1995-2009
received an average of $232,537.00 per operation. Those of Democratic legislators received an average of $26,500.00
per operation (see Graph D).

FARM OR RANCH OPERATIONS13 FROM 1995-2009
LEGISLATOR AMOUNT PAID TO FARM OR RANCH PARTY DISTRICT TOWN
SEN. ALAN OLSON $47.00 R SD 23 ROUNDUP
REP. DON ROBERTS $271.00 R HD 56 BILLINGS
REP. KELLY FLYNN $324.00 R HD 68 TOWNSEND
SEN. CLIFF LARSEN $732.00 D SD 50 MISSOULA
REP. JEFFREY WELBORN $972.00 R HD 72 DILLON
REP. MATTHEW ROSENDALE 14 $1,083.00 R HD 38 GLENDIVE
REP. RANDY BRODEHL $1,863.00 R HD 7 KALISPELL
REP. JOE READ $2,233.00 R HD 15 RONAN
REP. TOM BERRY $2,819.00 R HD 45 ROUNDUP
REP. WALTER MCNUTT 15 $4,121.00 R HD 37 SIDNEY
SEN. BRADLEY HAMLETT $5,458.00 D SD 10 CASCADE
REP. STERLING SMALL $7,677.00 R HD 41 BUSBY
SEN. ERIC MOORE $20,781.00 R SD 20 MILES CITY
REP. LILA EVANS $35,879.00 R HD 16 BROWNING
REP. TONY BELCOURT $73,309.00 D HD 32 BOX ELDER
REP. ROY HOLLANDSWORTH $80,675.00 R HD 28 BRADY
SEN. RICK RIPLEY $89,847.00 R SD 9 WOLF CREEK
REP. CHRISTY CLARK 16 $122,287.00 R HD 17 CHOTEAU
SEN. DEBBY BARRETT 17 $123,378.00 R SD 36 DILLON
REP. MIKE MILBURN $141,770.00 R HD 19 CASCADE
SEN. TERRY MURPHY $188,427.00 R SD 39 CARDWELL
SEN. RON ARTHUN $213,800.00 R SD 31 WILSALL
REP. DANIEL SALOMON 18 $223,865.00 R HD 12 RONAN
SEN. DONALD STEINBEISSER 19 $241,761.00 R SD 19 SIDNEY
REP. KEITH REGIER 20 $380,160.00 R HD 5 KALISPELL
SEN. TAYLOR BROWN 21 $473,563.00 R SD 22 HUNTLEY
SEN. JOHN BRENDEN 22 $497,291.00 R SD 18 SCOBEY
REP. LEE RANDALL 23 $507,674.00 R HD 39 BROADUS
SEN. LLEW JONES $609,508.00 R SD 14 CONRAD
SEN. JIM PETERSON $637,547.00 R SD 15 BUFFALO
SEN. BRUCE TUTVEDT $643,063.00 R SD 3 KALISPELL
REP. AUSTIN KNUDSEN 24 $705,941.00 R HD 36 CULBERTSON
REP. JANNA TAYLOR 25 $1,017,491.00 R HD 11 DAYTON

http://www.thepolicyinstitute.org/web_report.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2011 MT Legislature
House
69 Conk - 32 Donk
Senate 28 Conk - 22 Donk

[AZGrizFan]

FARM OR RANCH OPERATIONS13 FROM 1995-2009
LEGISLATOR AMOUNT PAID TO FARM OR RANCH PARTY DISTRICT TOWN
SEN. ALAN OLSON $47.00 R SD 23 ROUNDUP
REP. DON ROBERTS $271.00 R HD 56 BILLINGS
REP. KELLY FLYNN $324.00 R HD 68 TOWNSEND
SEN. CLIFF LARSEN $732.00 D SD 50 MISSOULA
REP. JEFFREY WELBORN $972.00 R HD 72 DILLON
REP. MATTHEW ROSENDALE 14 $1,083.00 R HD 38 GLENDIVE
REP. RANDY BRODEHL $1,863.00 R HD 7 KALISPELL
REP. JOE READ $2,233.00 R HD 15 RONAN
REP. TOM BERRY $2,819.00 R HD 45 ROUNDUP
REP. WALTER MCNUTT 15 $4,121.00 R HD 37 SIDNEY
SEN. BRADLEY HAMLETT $5,458.00 D SD 10 CASCADE
REP. STERLING SMALL $7,677.00 R HD 41 BUSBY
SEN. ERIC MOORE $20,781.00 R SD 20 MILES CITY
REP. LILA EVANS $35,879.00 R HD 16 BROWNING
REP. TONY BELCOURT $73,309.00 D HD 32 BOX ELDER
REP. ROY HOLLANDSWORTH $80,675.00 R HD 28 BRADY
SEN. RICK RIPLEY $89,847.00 R SD 9 WOLF CREEK
REP. CHRISTY CLARK 16 $122,287.00 R HD 17 CHOTEAU
SEN. DEBBY BARRETT 17 $123,378.00 R SD 36 DILLON
REP. MIKE MILBURN $141,770.00 R HD 19 CASCADE
SEN. TERRY MURPHY $188,427.00 R SD 39 CARDWELL
SEN. RON ARTHUN $213,800.00 R SD 31 WILSALL
REP. DANIEL SALOMON 18 $223,865.00 R HD 12 RONAN
SEN. DONALD STEINBEISSER 19 $241,761.00 R SD 19 SIDNEY
REP. KEITH REGIER 20 $380,160.00 R HD 5 KALISPELL
SEN. TAYLOR BROWN 21 $473,563.00 R SD 22 HUNTLEY
SEN. JOHN BRENDEN 22 $497,291.00 R SD 18 SCOBEY
REP. LEE RANDALL 23 $507,674.00 R HD 39 BROADUS
SEN. LLEW JONES $609,508.00 R SD 14 CONRAD
SEN. JIM PETERSON $637,547.00 R SD 15 BUFFALO
SEN. BRUCE TUTVEDT $643,063.00 R SD 3 KALISPELL
REP. AUSTIN KNUDSEN 24 $705,941.00 R HD 36 CULBERTSON
REP. JANNA TAYLOR 25 $1,017,491.00 R HD 11 DAYTON

http://www.thepolicyinstitute.org/web_report.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2011 MT Legislature
House
69 Conk - 32 Donk
Senate 28 Conk - 22 Donk

My blatant dislike for democrats apparently clouded my judgement. Montana Repukes are apparently just as bad...

I'm man enough to admit I was wrong.

[kalm]

Somebody watched 60min after the NCAA's....

He's right Jon. Ireland has 12.5% rate vs US 35%....35% of $0 = $0.....

In my previous post I said Switzerland's top rate was 15-16% according to the 60 Min piece and Ireland was 15% percent. I got the 2 mixed up. You are correct- Ireland according to the piece is 12.5%.

Actually according to the piece the US doesn't have the highest rate in the world. That is Japan, which is what I remember reading prior. But that is about to change as this April Japan is slated to lower their corporate rate, which will make the US the highest in the world.

60 Min claimed a # of CEOs were unwilling to go on record. One who was, and who was very Frank, was the CEO of Cisco:

"......One CEO who would talk to us was Chambers. Cisco is the giant high tech company headquartered in San Jose, Calif. He says our tax rate is insane. It's forcing companies into these maneuvers, especially when many other industrialized countries including Canada are busy lowering their tax rates in order to lure our companies and our jobs away.

"Every other government in the world has realized that the U.S. has it wrong. They're saying, 'I'm going to have lower taxes, period.' That's what you see all across Western Europe, that's what you see in Asia in the developed countries," Chambers said.

When asked if he's judged as a CEO on issues like taxes, Chambers said, "Absolutely."

He's been expanding Cisco overseas because of growing demand abroad, but also to lower the company's taxes: their average rate over the last three years was just 20 percent.

Economist Martin Sullivan says it's standard operating procedure for companies like Cisco. "U.S. multinationals are shifting their research facilities, shifting their manufacturing facilities, and shifting some regional headquarters into Switzerland and into Ireland. And those are massive numbers of jobs," he told Stahl.

Sullivan says Ireland taxes corporations at just a third of the U.S. rate, so no wonder the outskirts of Dublin look like Silicon Valley. Many well-known companies are all but obliged to go abroad.

"Well, if you have a 35 percent rate in the United States and, for example, a 12.5 percent rate in Ireland, there's a incentive to move your factory to Ireland," he explained.

"Six hundred American companies are in Ireland and they employ 100,000 people," Stahl pointed out. "Those are jobs that aren't here. And they moved to Ireland because of taxes."

"The U.S. Treasury in effect is subsidizing investment in Ireland," Sullivan said.

"Why isn't everybody in Ireland if it's that great?" Stahl asked.

"Almost everybody is in Ireland," Sullivan said. "All the pharmaceutical companies, all the high tech companies. You're stupid if you're not in Ireland," he replied.

"We notice that you have an awful lotta companies in Ireland," Stahl told Cisco's John Chambers.

"Yes we do," he acknowledged.

By Stahl's count, Cisco has eight companies in Ireland.

"We do what makes sense to the shareholders," Chambers said. "We go where there are incentives in countries that say, 'We want you here, we're going to give you tax advantages, and we want you to add jobs here, etc.' We can no longer in America say, 'This is how we do it, therefore you must do it.' We've gotta change, or we're going to be left behind."...."

Again, what's the effective rate? What do corporations actually pay? Wiki doesn't list it although it does list the US as 0-35% which seems fairly accurate. The US is also nowhere near the top even with beginning rate before loopholes. But as a percentage of GDP Ireland actually pays more in taxes across the board than the US.

And how is Ireland doing right now financially with their business friendly environment? Austerity + lowering taxes = a race to the bottom.

[Baldy]

In my previous post I said Switzerland's top rate was 15-16% according to the 60 Min piece and Ireland was 15% percent. I got the 2 mixed up. You are correct- Ireland according to the piece is 12.5%.

Actually according to the piece the US doesn't have the highest rate in the world. That is Japan, which is what I remember reading prior. But that is about to change as this April Japan is slated to lower their corporate rate, which will make the US the highest in the world.

60 Min claimed a # of CEOs were unwilling to go on record. One who was, and who was very Frank, was the CEO of Cisco:

"......One CEO who would talk to us was Chambers. Cisco is the giant high tech company headquartered in San Jose, Calif. He says our tax rate is insane. It's forcing companies into these maneuvers, especially when many other industrialized countries including Canada are busy lowering their tax rates in order to lure our companies and our jobs away.

"Every other government in the world has realized that the U.S. has it wrong. They're saying, 'I'm going to have lower taxes, period.' That's what you see all across Western Europe, that's what you see in Asia in the developed countries," Chambers said.

When asked if he's judged as a CEO on issues like taxes, Chambers said, "Absolutely."

He's been expanding Cisco overseas because of growing demand abroad, but also to lower the company's taxes: their average rate over the last three years was just 20 percent.

Economist Martin Sullivan says it's standard operating procedure for companies like Cisco. "U.S. multinationals are shifting their research facilities, shifting their manufacturing facilities, and shifting some regional headquarters into Switzerland and into Ireland. And those are massive numbers of jobs," he told Stahl.

Sullivan says Ireland taxes corporations at just a third of the U.S. rate, so no wonder the outskirts of Dublin look like Silicon Valley. Many well-known companies are all but obliged to go abroad.

"Well, if you have a 35 percent rate in the United States and, for example, a 12.5 percent rate in Ireland, there's a incentive to move your factory to Ireland," he explained.

"Six hundred American companies are in Ireland and they employ 100,000 people," Stahl pointed out. "Those are jobs that aren't here. And they moved to Ireland because of taxes."

"The U.S. Treasury in effect is subsidizing investment in Ireland," Sullivan said.

"Why isn't everybody in Ireland if it's that great?" Stahl asked.

"Almost everybody is in Ireland," Sullivan said. "All the pharmaceutical companies, all the high tech companies. You're stupid if you're not in Ireland," he replied.

"We notice that you have an awful lotta companies in Ireland," Stahl told Cisco's John Chambers.

"Yes we do," he acknowledged.

By Stahl's count, Cisco has eight companies in Ireland.

"We do what makes sense to the shareholders," Chambers said. "We go where there are incentives in countries that say, 'We want you here, we're going to give you tax advantages, and we want you to add jobs here, etc.' We can no longer in America say, 'This is how we do it, therefore you must do it.' We've gotta change, or we're going to be left behind."...."

Again, what's the effective rate? What do corporations actually pay? Wiki doesn't list it although it does list the US as 0-35% which seems fairly accurate. The US is also nowhere near the top even with beginning rate before loopholes. But as a percentage of GDP Ireland actually pays more in taxes across the board than the US.

And how is Ireland doing right now financially with their business friendly environment? Austerity + lowering taxes = a race to the bottom.

Again, you seem to be forgetting about compliance costs. I have no idea what Cisco pays in compliance costs regarding taxes (much less other government regulations), but I would assume it is easily between $50 and $100 million when you consider salaries and benefits for the best accountants, tax attorneys, and support staff. If I remember correctly from the 60 Minutes story, Cisco's effective tax rate was in the 15-18% range. Still far below Ireland's rates and much much below when those evil compliance costs are factored into the equation.

You left out 2 very components in your little formula. Austerity + lowering taxes + government health care system + the 3rd largest welfare state in Europe = a race to the bottom.

In the end, Ireland will be OK, especially if US companies continue to move more and more of their operations to their shores.

[Ivytalk]

Great piece in Saturday's Wall Street Journal about how reliance on taxing the rich has f*cked big liberal states like CA and NY up the azz. The "rich" got creamed in the recession, lowering their incomes and their consequent tax payments. Accordingly, those states that "soaked the rich" most got pronged.

[Wedgebuster]

Well, another year and another 1040.

Kicking in the max HSA amount again, and still owe Obama $375.00.

No refund again this year..