Muslin waves crashing on European shores

[Chizzang]

Where we discussed the importance of the Catholic Bishops stating that the Islamic dudes in the Boston Marathon Bombing should NOT BE killed for their heinous crimes against humanity

Even though - quite literally - the Old Testament would have them killed without question
The Church thus dismisses the Old Testament as "not valid in the light of newer societal norms"

Well, there are quite a lot of interpretations of the Bible. There are a few hundred denominations in the the US.

Some take the entire Bible completely literally. Earth 6,000 years old, gays should be stoned to death, etc.

Others do not. Catholics aren't fundamentalists.

Again, you problem is with fundamentalists.

Too vague SKJelly,
The term "The Bible" shouldn't be used to describe the Old Testament and the New Testament as one
They are distinctly different books and schools

The Old Testament has been dismissed by Christianity
as a matter of the New Covenant (Jesus dying)

So when you say "The Bible" you need to be specific
American Christian Fundamentalists include the Old Testament for one reason only
it gives them MORE POWER

But factually speaking
If they actually read the New Testament LITERALLY this would not be possible



Christianity has done a fabulous job (as religions go) at molding itself to society
and using the standards set by societal norms as time goes on
This does not make Christians less annoying
but it does make them far less dangerous

[YoUDeeMan]

Hmmm....I'm no religon expert, but some fundamental Christians would say that those Christians you describe above have also made up THEIR own religion and are "faking" it....

Bravo.

The problem is fundamentalists. What Cluck and others hate about Islam is Wahhabism.

Uh...no.

Wahhabism is an offshoot of Sunni Islam. But it is not only that small group of whack jobs that are monopolizing the violence. If I had my druthers, I'd rather be with a Shiite (they make up only 15% of the Muslins), but don't pretend that Islam, in general, isn't violent.

Have you read the Quaran? If not, you should probably stop contributing to these threads.

BTW, a Pew Research poll found that 40% of Sunnis don't consider Shiites as real Muslims.

As I said, Islam, as written, is a violent religion. Muslims who do not follow the Koran are not really Muslins.

[Baldy]

Where we discussed the importance of the Catholic Bishops stating that the Islamic dudes in the Boston Marathon Bombing should NOT BE killed for their heinous crimes against humanity

Even though - quite literally - the Old Testament would have them killed without question
The Church thus dismisses the Old Testament as "not valid in the light of newer societal norms"

Well, there are quite a lot of interpretations of the Bible. There are a few hundred denominations in the the US.

Some take the entire Bible completely literally. Earth 6,000 years old, gays should be stoned to death, etc.

Others do not. Catholics aren't fundamentalists.

Again, you problem is with fundamentalists.

Chizz is correct.

Fundie Christians are a major pain in the ass, but they preach non-violence and are non-violent. The crazies might believe the earth is 6,000 years old, etc., but I've never heard one actually say we should stone the gays to death, much less hearing of it happening in the modern world.

[Chizzang]

Well, there are quite a lot of interpretations of the Bible. There are a few hundred denominations in the the US.

Some take the entire Bible completely literally. Earth 6,000 years old, gays should be stoned to death, etc.

Others do not. Catholics aren't fundamentalists.

Again, you problem is with fundamentalists.

Chizz is correct.

Fundie Christians are a major pain in the ass, but they preach non-violence and are non-violent. The crazies might believe the earth is 6,000 years old, etc., but I've never heard one actually say we should stone the gays to death, much less hearing of it happening in the modern world.

And Jelly misses one other key point...
Sure their are hundreds of Christian sects etc.etc.
but the LARGEST Christian sect on earth by virtue of its highest organizational body
has made a statement to the world - a statement of peace

The day an imam from the highest functioning body of Islam
comes out and makes a statement COUNTER to the KORAN
and puts societal norms ABOVE the KORAN in a global statement (such as the Bishops just did)

I will sh!t myself and quit my job and walk into the woods never to be seen again...

But that ain't going to happen any time soon

[YoUDeeMan]

Chizz is correct.

Fundie Christians are a major pain in the ass, but they preach non-violence and are non-violent. The crazies might believe the earth is 6,000 years old, etc., but I've never heard one actually say we should stone the gays to death, much less hearing of it happening in the modern world.

And Jelly misses one other key point...
Sure their are hundreds of Christian sects etc.etc.
but the LARGEST Christian sect on earth by virtue of its highest organizational body
has made a statement to the world - a statement of peace

The day an imam from the highest functioning body of Islam
comes out and makes a statement COUNTER to the KORAN
and puts societal norms ABOVE the KORAN in a global statement (such as the Bishops just did)

I will sh!t myself and quit my job and walk into the woods never to be seen again...

But that ain't going to happen any time soon

Chizz wins the thread!





smelly goes away wondering why everyone continues to not see things through his small lens.

[Skjellyfetti]

I'm not saying Christianity and Islam are equal in their modern violence or anything close to that.

Clearly Islam has far more violent adherents than Christianity.

The difference is that y'all see Islam as violent in-and-of itself. I do not. I see the violence as a product of poverty, countries with no hope, no future, etc. These Wahhabists groups feed on that and recruit new members.

Y'all disagree, ok. I get it. I don't think we're going to change each other's minds on that.


But, if y'all believe Islam itself is destructive and violent - what can we do about it? JSO's option is complete extermination of the muslim population (renounce or die? sound familiar? ). Batshit crazy, but at least he's proffered a solution.

Cluck and Cleetz: what do you suggest we do about the problems in the Islamic world?

[Chizzang]

I'm not saying Christianity and Islam are equal in their modern violence or anything close to that.

Clearly Islam has far more violent adherents than Christianity.

The difference is that y'all see Islam as violent in-and-of itself. I do not. I see the violence as a product of poverty, countries with no hope, no future, etc. These Wahhabists groups feed on that and recruit new members.

Y'all disagree, ok. I get it. I don't think we're going to change each other's minds on that.


But, if y'all believe Islam itself is destructive and violent - what can we do about it? JSO's option is complete annihilation of the entire muslim population (renounce or die? sound familiar? )

Cluck and Cleetz: what do you suggest we do about the problems in the Middle East?

Tibet is poverty stricken...
The poverty thing is legit up to a point but made FAR FAR worse by an unapologetic insane religion

Next:
Until the leaders of Islam take some responsibility nothing can happen except more of the same
Followers follow
leaders lead

Example:
Bishops in Boston

Islamic leaders are THE issue

[CID1990]

Where we discussed the importance of the Catholic Bishops stating that the Islamic dudes in the Boston Marathon Bombing should NOT BE killed for their heinous crimes against humanity

Even though - quite literally - the Old Testament would have them killed without question
The Church thus dismisses the Old Testament as "not valid in the light of newer societal norms"

Well, there are quite a lot of interpretations of the Bible. There are a few hundred denominations in the the US.

Some take the entire Bible completely literally. Earth 6,000 years old, gays should be stoned to death, etc.

Others do not. Catholics aren't fundamentalists.

Again, you problem is with fundamentalists.

Its getting harder and harder to be a moral relativist around these parts, eh Felchy?

[CID1990]

I'm not saying Christianity and Islam are equal in their modern violence or anything close to that.

Clearly Islam has far more violent adherents than Christianity.

The difference is that y'all see Islam as violent in-and-of itself. I do not. I see the violence as a product of poverty, countries with no hope, no future, etc. These Wahhabists groups feed on that and recruit new members.

Y'all disagree, ok. I get it. I don't think we're going to change each other's minds on that.


But, if y'all believe Islam itself is destructive and violent - what can we do about it? JSO's option is complete extermination of the muslim population (renounce or die? sound familiar? ). Batshit crazy, but at least he's proffered a solution.

Cluck and Cleetz: what do you suggest we do about the problems in the Islamic world?

I know some pretty moderate muslims who will matter of factly tell you that the penalty for apostasy it rightly death. Theyll also give you a caveat: "I wouldnt PERSONALLY kill an apostate" but they have no issue with somebody else doing it in the name of the Religion of Peace.

It isnt that the anti Islamists domt understand Islam- its that you dont understand that "moderate" Islam is still wallowing around somewhere about 1100 A.D.

BTW you should ask some "moderate" Muslims what they think of you being gay. The first thing out of their mouths will be "Well, the Koran says...."

[YoUDeeMan]

I'm not saying Christianity and Islam are equal in their modern violence or anything close to that.

Clearly Islam has far more violent adherents than Christianity.

The difference is that y'all see Islam as violent in-and-of itself. I do not. I see the violence as a product of poverty, countries with no hope, no future, etc. These Wahhabists groups feed on that and recruit new members.

Y'all disagree, ok. I get it. I don't think we're going to change each other's minds on that.


But, if y'all believe Islam itself is destructive and violent - what can we do about it? JSO's option is complete extermination of the muslim population (renounce or die? sound familiar? ). Batshit crazy, but at least he's proffered a solution.

Cluck and Cleetz: what do you suggest we do about the problems in the Islamic world?

Stop the nonsense about poverty.

Next time you decide to list some generalizations, include your little blurb that all poor people are violent.

What to do?

Bomb them with condoms and Twinkies. Force their governments to spend our money on education instead of warplanes. Hold up moderates as role models. Eliminate the hard core conservative, sneaky power mongers that lay behind the Muslin governments.

Lots of things to do that can start having an impact. Instead, we continue doing things as business as usual.

[YoUDeeMan]

It isnt that the anti Islamists domt understand Islam- its that you dont understand that "moderate" Islam is still wallowing around somewhere about 1100 A.D.

WIN!

[AZGrizFan]

Hmmm....I'm no religon expert, but some fundamental Christians would say that those Christians you describe above have also made up THEIR own religion and are "faking" it....

Well said AZ
But you missed a previous debate (right here on CS.Com, Image that)
Where we discussed the importance of the Catholic Bishops stating that the Islamic dudes in the Boston Marathon Bombing should NOT BE killed for their heinous crimes against humanity

Even though - quite literally - the Old Testament would have them killed without question
The Church thus dismisses the Old Testament as "not valid in the light of newer societal norms"

Which re-emphasizes the covenant between Jesus and Man
which is a whole other thread of Hilarity - but more on that later

Catholic Bishops aren't fundamentalists. Fred Phelps and his ilk are fundamentalists.

[Ivytalk]

I'm not saying Christianity and Islam are equal in their modern violence or anything close to that.

Clearly Islam has far more violent adherents than Christianity.

The difference is that y'all see Islam as violent in-and-of itself. I do not. I see the violence as a product of poverty, countries with no hope, no future, etc. These Wahhabists groups feed on that and recruit new members.

Y'all disagree, ok. I get it. I don't think we're going to change each other's minds on that.


But, if y'all believe Islam itself is destructive and violent - what can we do about it? JSO's option is
complete extermination of the muslim population (renounce or die? sound familiar? ). Batshit crazy, but at least he's proffered a solution.

Cluck and Cleetz: what do you suggest we do about the problems in the Islamic world?

Stop the nonsense about poverty.

Next time you decide to list some generalizations, include your little blurb that all poor people are violent.


What to do?

Bomb them with condoms and Twinkies. Force their governments to spend our money on education instead of warplanes. Hold up moderates as role models. Eliminate the hard core conservative, sneaky power mongers that lay behind the Muslin governments.

Lots of things to do that can start having an impact. Instead, we continue doing things as business as usual.

Cluck ripped the tits off this thread...and Analjelly, who no longer has man-nips.

[CitadelGrad]

This might be Chizz's best thread ever.

Chizz, now that you've established a higher standard for yourself, I hope you know you are going to have to work very hard to maintain that standard. It won't be easy, especially for a Jill Stein supporter.

[Chizzang]

This might be Chizz's best thread ever.

Chizz, now that you've established a higher standard for yourself, I hope you know you are going to have to work very hard to maintain that standard. It won't be easy, especially for a Jill Stein supporter.