Charlottesville riots

[SDHornet]

Meanwhile, Mueller's investigation and the looming North Korea standoff have been pushed out of the news.

Getting people talking about confederate statues and "racism" is a great way to shorten the life of a DJT presidency.

Mueller's investigation is out of the news because it's becoming more apparent that is it one gigantic nothingburger. Last I heard was the donks made up the whole "Russia hacked us" as another excuse for hilldogs embarrassing loss. So now they are pimping the "racist" card as hard as possible because there is really no other play for them to go to.

[CID1990]

Maybe you should study up a little more on it

The only states that had not seceded when VA left were Arkansas and NC. NC's departure was a foregone conclusion by March of that year, and given that NC provided more soldiers to the war effort than any other I'd say there most certainly was going to be a war - just as bloody without VA as it was with VA

But would Lee have gone Union if VA had NOT seceded?

I already said yes - but he would have stayed in the engineers. He likely wouldn't have taken a combat command

[CID1990]

Meanwhile, Mueller's investigation and the looming North Korea standoff have been pushed out of the news.

Getting people talking about confederate statues and "racism" is a great way to shorten the life of a DJT presidency.

Mueller's investigation is out of the news because it's becoming more apparent that is it one gigantic nothingburger. Last I heard was the donks made up the whole "Russia hacked us" as another excuse for hilldogs embarrassing loss. So now they are pimping the "racist" card as hard as possible because there is really no other play for them to go to.

Specifically, the DNC "hack" is being looked at as an inside leak

[CID1990]

Maybe you should study up a little more on it

The only states that had not seceded when VA left were Arkansas and NC. NC's departure was a foregone conclusion by March of that year, and given that NC provided more soldiers to the war effort than any other I'd say there most certainly was going to be a war - just as bloody without VA as it was with VA

Why do you think it would be a foregone conclusion NC would have left? They were very divided and had already narrowly voted AGAINST secession. I think Virginia seceding pushed them over the line - being sandwiched between VA and SC. Don't think it was a foregone conclusion at all.

As I said, it's just speculation... I don't think there's a right or wrong answer.

Because NC didn't secede because of Virginia's secession.

The Jackson Democrats in the NC legislature were unionists. Bedford Brown (and I know a thing or two about Bedford Brown) was the canary in the coal mine over NC's secession. When Lincoln requested NC troops for the Union Army, opposition to secession dissolved in the NC legislature.

That is why NC's secession was a foregone conclusion : because Lincoln's determination to compel the Confederate states by force was a foregone conclusion. You have to dig deeper than Wiki

[AZGrizFan]

But would Lee have gone Union if VA had NOT seceded?

I already said yes - but he would have stayed in the engineers. He likely wouldn't have taken a combat command

Sorry...didn't read this whole thread... Tl;dr....

[mrklean]

I have always assumed that attribution was correct because it dovetails with several other things Lee said on the matter.

Virginia's position on the matter was certainly a major factor in Lee's decision making process- it was probably a controlling factor. It is also well documented that the decision to resign from the army was agonizing for Lee. But his decision to fight was in the interest of protecting Virginia more than it was about insuring Confederate independence.Nobody really knows for sure, but it is my own opinion that if Virginia had not seceded, Lee would have remained in the army in the capacity of an engineer- But if he had been asked to conduct an invasion of the confederate states I am convinced he would have resigned and sat out the war.

Well, it's academic... but, if Virginia didn't secede... I don't think there would have been much of a war at all.

I agree 100% on this one.

[CID1990]

Well, it's academic... but, if Virginia didn't secede... I don't think there would have been much of a war at all.

I agree 100% on this one.

LAWL

You just made my morning, Kleine

[dbackjon]

Meanwhile, Mueller's investigation and the looming North Korea standoff have been pushed out of the news.

Getting people talking about confederate statues and "racism" is a great way to shorten the life of a DJT presidency.

Mueller's investigation is out of the news because it's becoming more apparent that is it one gigantic nothingburger. Last I heard was the donks made up the whole "Russia hacked us" as another excuse for hilldogs embarrassing loss. So now they are pimping the "racist" card as hard as possible because there is really no other play for them to go to.

[JohnStOnge]

[
Mueller's investigation is out of the news because it's becoming more apparent that is it one gigantic nothingburger. Last I heard was the donks made up the whole "Russia hacked us" as another excuse for hilldogs embarrassing loss. .

Last you heard from who? Trump?

The reason Mueller's investigation is out of the news is because other stuff has happened. Could it be that it amounts to nothing? Yes. But that idea that it is out of the news because at this point it's been determined to be a "nothingburger" is absurd.

And taking Trumps' word for anything...such as taking his word that the Russia thing is an excuse for the Democrats losing the election...is just stupid. I'm sorry, but it is. Taking Trump's word for ANYTHING is stupid.

The FBI did not start an investigation because the Democrats wanted an excuse for losing the election. Why would you even buy that kind of crap?

[89Hen]

phpBB [video]

That is the most intellectually honest discussion of the situation I have seen from any media personality or institution. Kudos to him.

Too bad more people don't care to have an honest discussion about it.

[Chizzang]

That is the most intellectually honest discussion of the situation I have seen from any media personality or institution. Kudos to him.

Too bad more people don't care to have an honest discussion about it.

Interesting that YOU want there to be an honest discussion about something...

[89Hen]

Too bad more people don't care to have an honest discussion about it.

Interesting that YOU want there to be an honest discussion about something...

I'm a people person. What did you think of Shapiro's oped?

[Col Hogan]

Who said this?

All over the United States we recognize him as a great leader of men, as a great general. But, also, all over the United States I believe that we recognize him as something much more important than that. We recognize Robert E. Lee as one of our greatest American Christians and one of our greatest American gentlemen.

[kalm]

Here's an honest discussion. Allow others to assemble, feel free to counter protest, be peaceful, don't break shit, don't be a Nazi.

[mrklean]

Who said this?

All over the United States we recognize him as a great leader of men, as a great general. But, also, all over the United States I believe that we recognize him as something much more important than that. We recognize Robert E. Lee as one of our greatest American Christians and one of our greatest American gentlemen.

Who owned Slaves. What part of the teaching of Jesus did he not understand.

[Chizzang]

Interesting that YOU want there to be an honest discussion about something...

I'm a people person.

[BDKJMU]

Might be fireworks in Phoenix tonight....

Maybe Trump gives Sheriff Joe a pardon...

[89Hen]

Here's an honest discussion. Allow others to assemble, feel free to counter protest, be peaceful, don't break shit, don't be a Nazi.

Lots of great ideas, then you ruin it at the end. It's like you just can't help yourself.

[Col Hogan]

Who said this?

Who owned Slaves. What part of the teaching of Jesus did he not understand.

Franklin D Roosevelt said this at the dedication of a Lee statue in 1936... very liberal of him...

Wonder if FDR had freed his slaves by then...Kleen, I'm sure you have that answer too

[kalm]

Here's an honest discussion. Allow others to assemble, feel free to counter protest, be peaceful, don't break shit, don't be a Nazi.

Lots of great ideas, then you ruin it at the end. It's like you just can't help yourself.

What? You think it's ok to be a Nazi? You automatically assumed only one side is capable of being Nazis?

[89Hen]

Lots of great ideas, then you ruin it at the end. It's like you just can't help yourself.

What? You think it's ok to be a Nazi? You automatically assumed only one side is capable of being Nazis?

Why do you or I get to decide what somebody should or shouldn't be and if it's OK for them to assemble? And FTR, I didn't say anything about sides.

[Chizzang]

Lots of great ideas, then you ruin it at the end. It's like you just can't help yourself.

What? You think it's ok to be a Nazi? You automatically assumed only one side is capable of being Nazis?

Don't you see kalm, we're all Nazi's on the inside...

[89Hen]

Free speech for everyone... just don't be Nazi.

[Chizzang]

Free speech for everyone... just don't be Nazi.

Social Justice Warrior Credo:
Limited Speech for all (especially the Nazi's)

[kalm]

What? You think it's ok to be a Nazi? You automatically assumed only one side is capable of being Nazis?

Why do you or I get to decide what somebody should or shouldn't be and if it's OK for them to assemble? And FTR, I didn't say anything about sides.

I didn't say Nazis didn't have the right to assemble. They do. Just like I have a right to call them out on it. Or call out the left when they act inappropriately. Quit acting triggered.