Zimmerman Trial

[93henfan]

Oh please, stop. I used to think you were intelligent. Boy, they really got ahold of you.

Oh yeah, let's not be critical of anything, that would be drone-ish of us wouldn't it? Just be apologetic to the institution and all it does....shhhhh

(what's funny is that this isn't really reported on by the mainstream media, so idk where you're getting this...)

Do you want me to write half page posts about how hard the experiences of other people has been? That's all you've done. I'm able to make a point and be succinct. And I relate my own experiences.

All you have is holier than thou schoolbook drivel you parrot.

[youngterrier]

I've given her no reason to be.

Me either. I've involuntarily been denied opportunities in life so lesser qualified blacks could take the opportunity. My son with special needs gets less resources than a black kid in Head Start. I have black people make racist comments in front if me at work on a daily basis and I just have to bite my tongue. Saying anything would implicate me as a racist. I watch black managers hire disproportionate numbers of black employees. Hmmmm. I guess I've given black people so many reasons to hate me.

White tears lol

Again, the unemployment numbers for blacks and people of color are much higher, the average income both individually and by household is much lower for blacks/other people of color than white people. There are more racist jokes against black people both in media and throughout culture than jokes about white people.

and still, a black person is more likely to get stopped by cops (who are predominately white), most of the senators and congressmen are white, most business owners are white, most media personalities are white. Everywhere you look in the social and economic positions of power (with the exception of the president thankfully) you see white faces perpetuating injustices against people of color, whether it be directly through things such as police brutality and killing of unarmed people of color, or subliminally through media representations and caricatures of race.

Being white in our society is a position of privilege in comparison to being black.

(though I agree your special needs child should have better funding and the reasoning is similar but different)

[Pwns]

To hell with facts, logic, and blind justice. White privilege, defacto minority enslavement, and injustices from 60+ years ago. That's why Zimmerman should be convicted.

[youngterrier]

Oh yeah, let's not be critical of anything, that would be drone-ish of us wouldn't it? Just be apologetic to the institution and all it does....shhhhh

(what's funny is that this isn't really reported on by the mainstream media, so idk where you're getting this...)

Do you want me to write half page posts about how hard the experiences of other people has been? That's all you've done. I'm able to make a point and be succinct. And I relate my own experiences.

All you have is holier than thou schoolbook drivel you parrot.

So basically you're conceding that your admittedly anecdotal experience (without statistical facts, rather ~feelings~) is omniscient?

We found God everyone.

Helpful Hint: Simple Answers are rarely the correct ones. Perpetuating that myth dumbs down everything and everyone.

[93henfan]

To hell with facts, logic, and blind justice. White privilege, defacto minority enslavement, and injustices from 60+ years ago. That's why Zimmerman should be convicted.

According to Polly, yes.

[youngterrier]

To hell with facts, logic, and blind justice. White privilege, defacto minority enslavement, and injustices from 60+ years ago. That's why Zimmerman should be convicted.

to be fair, I think he's guilty of profiling, but if you define second degree murder in a certain way that's the harder part.

He's guilty of the former, I dunno the latter, but it will be a cruel injustice if he doesn't get penalized in some capacity because Zimmerman did something wrong that night and there's a dead teenager as a result.

I'm also not a fan of prisons in general. I think he's guilty of something, but 15-30 years of prison won't do anything.

[93henfan]

Do you want me to write half page posts about how hard the experiences of other people has been? That's all you've done. I'm able to make a point and be succinct. And I relate my own experiences.

All you have is holier than thou schoolbook drivel you parrot.

So basically you're conceding that your admittedly anecdotal experience (without statistical facts, rather ~feelings~) is omniscient?

We found God everyone.

Helpful Hint: Simple Answers are rarely the correct ones. Perpetuating that myth dumbs down everything and everyone.

You're calling me a liar. Very nice. That's all you have, huh?

[ASUMountaineer]

You're wrong. Cracker is a racist term.

perhaps it is, but its not nearly as bad as the n word.

1) no one said it was "as bad as" the n-word, they've only said it was racist.

2) you took a pretty hard stance before that "cracker" was absolutely not racist, but now you say "perhaps it is." Which is it?

The clear answer is that it is racist. It's a descriptive term of one's race, used in a derogatory way. Very simple, very easy.

[93henfan]

Me either. I've involuntarily been denied opportunities in life so lesser qualified blacks could take the opportunity. My son with special needs gets less resources than a black kid in Head Start. I have black people make racist comments in front if me at work on a daily basis and I just have to bite my tongue. Saying anything would implicate me as a racist. I watch black managers hire disproportionate numbers of black employees. Hmmmm. I guess I've given black people so many reasons to hate me.

White tears lol

Again, the unemployment numbers for blacks and people of color are much higher, the average income both individually and by household is much lower for blacks/other people of color than white people. There are more racist jokes against black people both in media and throughout culture than jokes about white people.

and still, a black person is more likely to get stopped by cops (who are predominately white), most of the senators and congressmen are white, most business owners are white, most media personalities are white. Everywhere you look in the social and economic positions of power (with the exception of the president thankfully) you see white faces perpetuating injustices against people of color, whether it be directly through things such as police brutality and killing of unarmed people of color, or subliminally through media representations and caricatures of race.

Being white in our society is a position of privilege in comparison to being black.

(though I agree your special needs child should have better funding and the reasoning is similar but different)

So you make light of the pain of white people yet feel great guilt about any pain a black person may suffer. Got it.

You are pathetic.

[youngterrier]

So basically you're conceding that your admittedly anecdotal experience (without statistical facts, rather ~feelings~) is omniscient?

We found God everyone.

Helpful Hint: Simple Answers are rarely the correct ones. Perpetuating that myth dumbs down everything and everyone.

You're calling me a liar. Very nice. That's all you have, huh?

I didn't say that. I just said you've said unsubstantiated things, which is accurate.

[ASUMountaineer]

I've given her no reason to be.

Perhaps not, but why should she trust you when she has no reason to?

When did I give her a reason not to?

You could ask that question about anyone when dealing with a complete stranger, race aside.

[93henfan]

You're calling me a liar. Very nice. That's all you have, huh?

I didn't say that. I just said you've said unsubstantiated things, which is accurate.

They're not unsubstantiated. I've lived them.

[93henfan]

YT, should we claim that everything your black friends have told you is anecdotal and therefore unsubstantiated?

[youngterrier]

perhaps it is, but its not nearly as bad as the n word.

1) no one said it was "as bad as" the n-word, they've only said it was racist.

2) you took a pretty hard stance before that "cracker" was absolutely not racist, but now you say "perhaps it is." Which is it?

The clear answer is that it is racist. It's a descriptive term of one's race, used in a derogatory way. Very simple, very easy.

My position put simply is yes it is prejudiced, but racism is more than just prejudice. Racism is prejudice + power. And white people have all the power.

So, every comment that's racially insensitive is prejudiced, but not necessarily racist. follow? I'll admit I was inconsistent right there but I only made the concession because people focus more on the question of whether or not it's racist (ie hateful, and so on) and I'm trying to communicate a broader point and I don't want to be stuck on that one little tidbit which is basically and etymological miscommunication.

[ASUG8]

Does white racism exist? Yes. Does black racism exist? Yes. Are either of these the sole reason for the plight of the black community with regard to joblessness, educational advancement, and higher dependence on welfare? Absolutely not.

I had a black workout partner for several years and we'd get into conversations about this. His take was that when he was in high school there's was a huge amount of pressure placed on him from other black people for him to conform to some idealized image of what a black guy should be. If he hung out with white friends, he was "trying to be white". If he studied and worked on his grades he was trying to be white and was selling out. He finally realized that if he allowed himself to be hamstrung by those expectations he'd never get to where he wanted to be - a college grad with a decent job. He went to school and got a Spanish degree and taught high school ESL classes.
Sadly he passed away a few years ago but he was a great guy with a good head on his shoulders and a good perspective on things.

[youngterrier]

White tears lol

Again, the unemployment numbers for blacks and people of color are much higher, the average income both individually and by household is much lower for blacks/other people of color than white people. There are more racist jokes against black people both in media and throughout culture than jokes about white people.

and still, a black person is more likely to get stopped by cops (who are predominately white), most of the senators and congressmen are white, most business owners are white, most media personalities are white. Everywhere you look in the social and economic positions of power (with the exception of the president thankfully) you see white faces perpetuating injustices against people of color, whether it be directly through things such as police brutality and killing of unarmed people of color, or subliminally through media representations and caricatures of race.

Being white in our society is a position of privilege in comparison to being black.

(though I agree your special needs child should have better funding and the reasoning is similar but different)

So you make light of the pain of white people yet feel great guilt about any pain a black person may suffer. Got it.

You are pathetic.

Nope, actually I sympathize with the white man as I am one.

I'm just saying if we're talking about racial injustice and hardship, white people don't have anything to seriously complain about when put in proper perspective. We have problems, racism isn't one of them.

[93henfan]

1) no one said it was "as bad as" the n-word, they've only said it was racist.

2) you took a pretty hard stance before that "cracker" was absolutely not racist, but now you say "perhaps it is." Which is it?

The clear answer is that it is racist. It's a descriptive term of one's race, used in a derogatory way. Very simple, very easy.

My position put simply is yes it is prejudiced, but racism is more than just prejudice. Racism is prejudice + power. And white people have all the power.

So, every comment that's racially insensitive is prejudiced, but not necessarily racist. follow? I'll admit I was inconsistent right there but I only made the concession because people focus more on the question of whether or not it's racist (ie hateful, and so on) and I'm trying to communicate a broader point and I don't want to be stuck on that one little tidbit which is basically and etymological miscommunication.

White people have all the power.

OK.

That makes sense.

[youngterrier]

Perhaps not, but why should she trust you when she has no reason to?

When did I give her a reason not to?

You could ask that question about anyone when dealing with a complete stranger, race aside.

Because when people treat you like shit, you don't trust them by default.

[ASUMountaineer]

1) no one said it was "as bad as" the n-word, they've only said it was racist.

2) you took a pretty hard stance before that "cracker" was absolutely not racist, but now you say "perhaps it is." Which is it?

The clear answer is that it is racist. It's a descriptive term of one's race, used in a derogatory way. Very simple, very easy.

My position put simply is yes it is prejudiced, but racism is more than just prejudice. Racism is prejudice + power. And white people have all the power.

So, every comment that's racially insensitive is prejudiced, but not necessarily racist. follow? I'll admit I was inconsistent right there but I only made the concession because people focus more on the question of whether or not it's racist (ie hateful, and so on) and I'm trying to communicate a broader point and I don't want to be stuck on that one little tidbit which is basically and etymological miscommunication.

I follow what you're saying, but I disagree with it. I'm sure you hold it as indisputable fact, but I do not.

I do not agree that in order for a person to be a racist that they have to have power. By that standard, in America, only white people can be racists. That's complete and utter nonsense. Deep down, you probably know that, but you'd never admit it.

[CID1990]

They have a deep-seeded hatred of white people because white people have treated them so unjustly.

The average black person in this country has been raised to think that way. People like you are the first ones to decry the "hate" under which Klukkers' kids or Skinheads' kids are raised, thus perpetuating the hate, but those black kids are somehow being raised in a fakking Currier and Ives landscape and only hate white people because there were slaves in their family tree and their great grandaddy got called "boy" down in Selma in 1957.

Reuben Greenberg once famously said that "if every white person disappeared off the face of the earth tomorrow, black people would still have precisely the same problems." Yeah yeah, imperialism, colonialism, blah blah.

[youngterrier]

I didn't say that. I just said you've said unsubstantiated things, which is accurate.

They're not unsubstantiated. I've lived them.

Yeah and some black dude stole $20 from my work yesterday. I lived that experience but I don't take that anecdote to say everything about the entire social conditions of what happens at every robbery, and so on.

[93henfan]

So you make light of the pain of white people yet feel great guilt about any pain a black person may suffer. Got it.

You are pathetic.

Nope, actually I sympathize with the white man as I am one.

I'm just saying if we're talking about racial injustice and hardship, white people don't have anything to seriously complain about when put in proper perspective. We have problems, racism isn't one of them.

So you're OK with racism and discrimination against white people but not against black people. Thanks for the confirmation.

Odd stance, but at least you're consistent. I can respect that, even though I'm personally not OK with either.

[youngterrier]

YT, should we claim that everything your black friends have told you is anecdotal and therefore unsubstantiated?

No, because there are statistics about law enforcement, poverty, and so on that substantiate their claims.

[youngterrier]

Does white racism exist? Yes. Does black racism exist? Yes. Are either of these the sole reason for the plight of the black community with regard to joblessness, educational advancement, and higher dependence on welfare? Absolutely not.

I had a black workout partner for several years and we'd get into conversations about this. His take was that when he was in high school there's was a huge amount of pressure placed on him from other black people for him to conform to some idealized image of what a black guy should be. If he hung out with white friends, he was "trying to be white". If he studied and worked on his grades he was trying to be white and was selling out. He finally realized that if he allowed himself to be hamstrung by those expectations he'd never get to where he wanted to be - a college grad with a decent job. He went to school and got a Spanish degree and taught high school ESL classes.
Sadly he passed away a few years ago but he was a great guy with a good head on his shoulders and a good perspective on things.

this is actually a good post. I disagree with some of it but it touches on issues of masculinity, race, and so on.

It's all about societal/social pressure.

[93henfan]

YT, should we claim that everything your black friends have told you is anecdotal and therefore unsubstantiated?

No, because there are statistics about law enforcement, poverty, and so on that substantiate their claims.

Yet my experience is unsubstantiated. Sorry kid, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. Both blacks and whites are discriminated against and it's wrong.