Birthright citizenship

[kalm]

Watching the resident conks spin on this entire topic is laughable. A few things come to mind:
1) the 14th amendment will never be removed so it's a waste of time even talking about that aspect of this issue. The funny thing is that the the 14th amendment isn't even an issue if...
2) the current rules on the books are enforced. Enforce the rules on the books and up the security/BP/wall/drones/etc on the border and illegal immigration becomes a trickle. This is what really should be the focus for the conk candidates. Now conks fucked themselves because instead of talking about way to reform immigration (i.e. win over Team Brown)...
3) Trump has highlighted the xenophobia (we all knew existed) of the conk base. Yeah this is the far right but still, in a crucial election that needed to win over a significant portion of Team Brown to have a shot of knocking off hildabeast (yes, she will be the donk nominee) Trump has alienated the fastest growing demographic (que voter fraud debate ) in the US.

Good job conks.

Large American Corporations cannot continue to be as profitable - if the immigration laws change
we dance around that point but it is HUGE

Low Pay workers are EXTREMELY VALUABLE
Team Brown works hard for less

Reagan understood this.

[CAA Flagship]

Large American Corporations cannot continue to be as profitable - if the immigration laws change
we dance around that point but it is HUGE

Low Pay workers are EXTREMELY VALUABLE
Team Brown works hard for less

All sides want the laws to "change". Just about everyone agrees that the path to citizenship needs to be streamlined. Is that the "change" you are talking about?

[SDHornet]

Watching the resident conks spin on this entire topic is laughable. A few things come to mind:
1) the 14th amendment will never be removed so it's a waste of time even talking about that aspect of this issue. The funny thing is that the the 14th amendment isn't even an issue if...
2) the current rules on the books are enforced. Enforce the rules on the books and up the security/BP/wall/drones/etc on the border and illegal immigration becomes a trickle. This is what really should be the focus for the conk candidates. Now conks fucked themselves because instead of talking about way to reform immigration (i.e. win over Team Brown)...
3) Trump has highlighted the xenophobia (we all knew existed) of the conk base. Yeah this is the far right but still, in a crucial election that needed to win over a significant portion of Team Brown to have a shot of knocking off hildabeast (yes, she will be the donk nominee) Trump has alienated the fastest growing demographic (que voter fraud debate ) in the US.

Good job conks.

Large American Corporations cannot continue to be as profitable - if the immigration laws change
we dance around that point but it is HUGE

Low Pay workers are EXTREMELY VALUABLE
Team Brown works hard for less

I agree…which is why neither side has done anything to address the immigration issue…and neither side will. But I love seeing right wingers get excited when Trump says he’ll send everyone back and amend/repeal the 14th amendment…little do they know that nothing will change on immigration. Too many people (that matter) are fine with the status quo.

[SDHornet]

Watching the resident conks spin on this entire topic is laughable. A few things come to mind:
1) the 14th amendment will never be removed so it's a waste of time even talking about that aspect of this issue. The funny thing is that the the 14th amendment isn't even an issue if...
2) the current rules on the books are enforced. Enforce the rules on the books and up the security/BP/wall/drones/etc on the border and illegal immigration becomes a trickle. This is what really should be the focus for the conk candidates. Now conks **** themselves because instead of talking about way to reform immigration (i.e. win over Team Brown)...
3) Trump has highlighted the xenophobia (we all knew existed) of the conk base. Yeah this is the far right but still, in a crucial election that needed to win over a significant portion of Team Brown to have a shot of knocking off hildabeast (yes, she will be the donk nominee) Trump has alienated the fastest growing demographic (que voter fraud debate ) in the US.

Good job conks.

Actually your #2 is a bit off

(and I don't mean diarrhea)

There are no rules or laws to enforce concerning jus soli.

If you are applying for a tourist visa to the United States and you declare that you intend to have a baby there so that it will be a US citizen, you cannot be denied a visa on those grounds.

Birth tourism is huge around the world and we are seeing it firsthand in Nigeria. There are tens of thousands of dual citizens living in Nigeria, and as much as 3/4 of them are minor children whose non-citizen parents had them while legally in the US.

Um, actually that would be addressed under the "immigration reform" part I mentioned in part 2.

[SDHornet]

Yep. Illegal immigrants are about keeping wages down for Americans. Throw a few employers in jail and the problem vanishes overnight.

Yup, this would be a good start.

[Chizzang]

Large American Corporations cannot continue to be as profitable - if the immigration laws change
we dance around that point but it is HUGE

Low Pay workers are EXTREMELY VALUABLE
Team Brown works hard for less

All sides want the laws to "change". Just about everyone agrees that the path to citizenship needs to be streamlined. Is that the "change" you are talking about?

I'm mostly referencing the Republican candidate "tough talk" on immigration
Which is of course just talk - easily consumable bits for the angry right wing voter

But to find out where the rubber hits the road one need only ask a few simple questions

1) Who benefits from having low pay undocumented workers in the market place
2) What are the consequences of "fixing" this situation
3) Why has it gone "unfixed" for so many decades... if everybody is so upset about it
4) What are the forces at play (behind the scenes) that could keep something so simple for getting fixed

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect those dots

[CAA Flagship]

All sides want the laws to "change". Just about everyone agrees that the path to citizenship needs to be streamlined. Is that the "change" you are talking about?

I'm mostly referencing the Republican candidate "tough talk" on immigration
Which is of course just talk - easily consumable bits for the angry right wing voter

But to find out where the rubber hits the road one need only ask a few simple questions

1) Who benefits from having low pay undocumented workers in the market place
2) What are the consequences of "fixing" this situation
3) Why has it gone "unfixed" for so many decades... if everybody is so upset about it
4) What are the forces at play (behind the scenes) that could keep something so simple for getting fixed

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect those dots

It sounds like you are only referencing part of the talk, and not the streamlining of the immigration process that many people are discussing.

Oh, and the answer to #3 is Obamacare.

[Chizzang]

I'm mostly referencing the Republican candidate "tough talk" on immigration
Which is of course just talk - easily consumable bits for the angry right wing voter

But to find out where the rubber hits the road one need only ask a few simple questions

1) Who benefits from having low pay undocumented workers in the market place
2) What are the consequences of "fixing" this situation
3) Why has it gone "unfixed" for so many decades... if everybody is so upset about it
4) What are the forces at play (behind the scenes) that could keep something so simple for getting fixed

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to connect those dots

It sounds like you are only referencing part of the talk, and not the streamlining of the immigration process that many people are discussing.

Oh, and the answer to #3 is Obamacare.

Well sure...
After a 30 year discussion we absolutely need to have another discussion
Let me guess - you work for the Federal Government



We can have this wrapped up in another 30 years (if we have enough discussions)
in the meanwhile - if nothing changes - that's good for business

[JohnStOnge]

Bottom line is that blanket "birthright citizenship" is a bad idea. It's probably true that it can't be changed. But it's a bad idea.

And there's nothing wrong with at least TRYING to get rid of it. One thing's for sure: If you don't TRY to change something that is a bad idea you're CERTAINLY not going to change it.

[SeattleGriz]

JEEZUS TITTY FUCKING CHRIST... For the THOUSANDTH TIME
I am 100% in support of the 2nd amendment

I am in no way making inferences to the 2nd amendment
I am referring to ALL amendments and all the issues that confront America today



I'm asking how it is we can so selectively "open our minds" in one way and not another...
Why would anybody who is Religious or Conservative begin a debate
arguing from the point of "Opening your mind"

Yeah dammit. He means ALL amendments...except the 2nd!

[CAA Flagship]

JEEZUS TITTY FUCKING CHRIST... For the THOUSANDTH TIME
I am 100% in support of the 2nd amendment

I am in no way making inferences to the 2nd amendment
I am referring to ALL amendments and all the issues that confront America today



I'm asking how it is we can so selectively "open our minds" in one way and not another...
Why would anybody who is Religious or Conservative begin a debate
arguing from the point of "Opening your mind"

Yeah dammit. He means ALL amendments...except the 2nd!

Wait. Are you SURE he said ALL?

[dbackjon]

I'm not a hardline anti-immigration guy, but I still want to know if anyone here has a good reason for why we should still have it? It's a very different world today than it was when the 14th amendment was put in place.

The only other country in the world that has it only has the US and vast tundras for neighbors. Even those enlightened, diversensitolerant European countries don't have it.

Discuss.

So...
You're going to use the old "Its a different world today" tactic
Fascinating - I don;t disagree - it is indeed a different world
But doesnt that same "open minded approach" you just launched this thread with
apply to a whole bunch of amendments and philosophical issues..?

Curious

Like the 2nd?

[dbackjon]

I'm not a hardline anti-immigration guy, but I still want to know if anyone here has a good reason for why we should still have it? It's a very different world today than it was when the 14th amendment was put in place.

The only other country in the world that has it only has the US and vast tundras for neighbors. Even those enlightened, diversensitolerant European countries don't have it.

Discuss.

Most of the Western Hemisphere has birthright citizenship

[CID1990]

All sides want the laws to "change". Just about everyone agrees that the path to citizenship needs to be streamlined. Is that the "change" you are talking about?

I'm mostly referencing the Republican candidate "tough talk" on immigration
Which is of course just talk - easily consumable bits for the angry right wing voter

Sort of like "stick it to the big banks and wall street" or income inequality is to the left's pitchfork and torch wielders

[kalm]

I'm mostly referencing the Republican candidate "tough talk" on immigration
Which is of course just talk - easily consumable bits for the angry right wing voter

Sort of like "stick it to the big banks and wall street" or income inequality is to the left's pitchfork and torch wielders

[BDKJMU]

"The Very Real Economic Costs of Birthright Citizenship

....According to Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) legal policy analyst Jon Feere, who testified before the House Judiciary Committee’s Subcommittee on Immigration and Border Security in April, between 350,000 and 400,000 children are born annually to an illegal-alien mother residing in the United States — as many as one in ten births nationwide. As of 2010, four out of five children of illegal aliens residing in the U.S. were born here — some 4 million kids. Reporting that finding, the Pew Research Center noted that, while illegal immigrants make up about 4 percent of the adult population, “because they have high birthrates, their children make up a much larger share of both the newborn population (8 percent) and the child population (7 percent) in this country.”....

....According to CIS, 71 percent of illegal-alien headed households with children received some sort of welfare in 2009, compared with 39 percent of native-headed houses with children. Illegal immigrants generally access welfare programs through their U.S.-born children, to whom government assistance is guaranteed. Additionally, U.S.-born children of illegal aliens are entitled to American public schools, health care, and more, even though illegal-alien households rarely pay taxes....."
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/4 ... incentives" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[dbackjon]

even though illegal-alien households rarely pay taxes....."


I call BS on that

[BDKJMU]

even though illegal-alien households rarely pay taxes....."


I call BS on that

Most don't pay income taxes..

[dbackjon]

even though illegal-alien households rarely pay taxes....."


I call BS on that

Most don't pay income taxes..

Source?


Or more made-up bullshit that the right believes because it fits their narrative?


Your article was long on rhetoric, short on numbers, which is strange for an article that purports to be about the very real economic costs

[JohnStOnge]

1) the 14th amendment will never be removed so it's a waste of time even talking about that aspect of this issue.

You don't have to remove the 14th Amendment. You just have to remove one provision of it.

I honestly think that if you could just isolate it to that one provision there might be SOME chance of doing it. Just the single provision that being born in the United States regardless of other circumstances means you're a citizen.

Like I think there's a good chance that if you ask people if a child born to someone in the United States illegally should be a citizen a solid majority might say "no." I think you might indeed have a chance of developing sentiment to Amend the Constitution so that doesn't happen.

And really, it's pretty obviously a bad idea to say that a child born to someone who is not here legally is automatically a citizen.

[BDKJMU]

Most don't pay income taxes..

Source?

Or more made-up bullshit that the right believes because it fits their narrative?

Your article was long on rhetoric, short on numbers, which is strange for an article that purports to be about the very real economic costs

47% of Americans don't pay income taxes. If you think a majority of illegals do then you're a lot dumber than I thought you were..

And the article cited a number of stats. I can't help it if they didn't teach you reading comprehension at NAU..

[CID1990]

Most don't pay income taxes..

Source?


Or more made-up bullshit that the right believes because it fits their narrative?


Your article was long on rhetoric, short on numbers, which is strange for an article that purports to be about the very real economic costs

he is actually correct

illegals pay little to nothing in taxes

when they become legal and petition for their families, i see the tax returns- ive seen them in se asia, central america, and now africa

the song remains the same- the vast majority of them do not earn more than 125% of the median poverty level and need joint sponsors to petition

[Chizzang]

Source?


Or more made-up bullshit that the right believes because it fits their narrative?


Your article was long on rhetoric, short on numbers, which is strange for an article that purports to be about the very real economic costs

he is actually correct

illegals pay little to nothing in taxes

when they become legal and petition for their families, i see the tax returns- ive seen them in se asia, central america, and now africa

the song remains the same- the vast majority of them do not earn more than 125% of the median poverty level and need joint sponsors to petition

They sound like valuable Wal-Mart employees then..!!!
who else will work for those wages and make profits go up and make stock value go up
We CANNOT over pay for labor - says Wall Street (our master)

[CID1990]

he is actually correct

illegals pay little to nothing in taxes

when they become legal and petition for their families, i see the tax returns- ive seen them in se asia, central america, and now africa

the song remains the same- the vast majority of them do not earn more than 125% of the median poverty level and need joint sponsors to petition

They sound like valuable Wal-Mart employees then..!!!
who else will work for those wages and make profits go up and make stock value go up
We CANNOT over pay for labor - says Wall Street (our master)

oh ok

so walmart should hire illegals?

[Chizzang]

They sound like valuable Wal-Mart employees then..!!!
who else will work for those wages and make profits go up and make stock value go up
We CANNOT over pay for labor - says Wall Street (our master)

oh ok

so walmart should hire illegals?

Should..?
How about DOES (already convicted) with a few more pending situations

They plea bargained out of their Federal Case using the creative tool / MONEY
$11 Million not including side bribes and political pocket money

They must be off the hook - clean as a whistle