Solyndra!

[VictorG]

Actually, history tells me GATW is winning this discussion!

Sure. DONK history.

Insulting on-lookers is a sure sign of insecurity in ones stand on the topic......+ 1 for GATW

[AZGrizFan]

Sure. DONK history.

Insulting on-lookers is a sure sign of insecurity in ones stand on the topic......+ 1 for GATW

If facts bother you, then there's nothing I can do about that.

[kalm]

Insulting on-lookers is a sure sign of insecurity in ones stand on the topic......+ 1 for GATW

If facts bother you, then there's nothing I can do about that.

What facts have brought forth in this thread? Just asking...

[BDKJMU]

The list is long and illustrious, isn't it Jon.

Solyndra
Benghazi
IRS Targeting
Fast & Furious
NSA Wiretapping
AP Scandal
Ebola Handling
VA Debacle
Obamacare Rollout Fiasco
Military Officer Purge
Secret Service Debacle
Illegal Immigrant Shipping
Bowe Bergdahl-Taliban Prisoner Exchange
ISIS ignorance
Syrian "red line" foreign policy **** up
Head up his ass regarding Russia's intentions with Ukraine

....and a whole host of other, less memorable **** ups.

Benghazi - 1 versus what, 12 under Bush - great improvement
IRS Targeting - been proven that more lefty orgs were targeted.
Fast and Furious - ok, that is one small one.
VA - bipartisan **** up. GOP won't fund veteran's care
Obamacare - resounding success in the end
Bergdahl - we get our prisoners back. A scandal only in the minds that Fox controls

Benghazi: Bush & Co didn't blame any successfullt, pre planned, well coordinated AQ terror attacks on a fabricated story about a Youtube video 7 weeks before an election because they'd been campaigning that AQ was defeated & on the run when it wasn't.

IRS has been proven that it almost exclusively targeted conservative groups.

Allowing 1500 guns to be illegally shipped into Mexico and be involved on dozens of murders on both sides of the border including a US Border Patrol agent is "a small one". Maybe in that small pea brain of yours...

Obamacare "resounding success"..

Bergdahl: A deserting weasel private exchanged for 5 high ranking enemy. Probably a 1st in US history.

He can't be that big a dumba*s can he?

[BlueHen86]

IRS Targeting - been proven that more lefty orgs were targeted.

He can't be that big a dumba*s can he?

Nope. You're the only one.

[BDKJMU]

He can't be that big a dumba*s can he?

Nope. You're the only one.

Coming from one of the biggest dumba*ses on here that's rich.. Sucks to be suffering from early stage dementia, doesn't it? Now go wipe the drool off your face and change your Depends...

[Baldy]

The list is long and illustrious, isn't it Jon.

Solyndra
Benghazi
IRS Targeting
Fast & Furious
NSA Wiretapping
AP Scandal
Ebola Handling
VA Debacle
Obamacare Rollout Fiasco
Military Officer Purge
Secret Service Debacle
Illegal Immigrant Shipping
Bowe Bergdahl-Taliban Prisoner Exchange
ISIS ignorance
Syrian "red line" foreign policy fuck up
Head up his ass regarding Russia's intentions with Ukraine

....and a whole host of other, less memorable fuck ups.

LOL -
Solyndra - program is making money.
Benghazi - 1 versus what, 12 under Bush - great improvement
IRS Targeting - been proven that more lefty orgs were targeted.
Fast and Furious - ok, that is one small one.
NSA wiretapping - should have ended the Bush program. This is a bi-partisan fuck up. Do you really think McCain or Romney would have done different?
AP Scandal - not familiar under that name
Ebola - that is a win - no American deaths, it is stopped here. Only a partisan hack would think this is a failure. It was new, lessons were learned.
VA - bipartisan fuck up. GOP won't fund veteran's care
Obamacare - resounding success in the end
Miiitary officer purge - fake scandal
Secret Service issues - he fucked up, he trusted the Republicans.
Illegal Immigrant - law signed by Bush. You guys crack me up.
Bergdahl - we get our prisoners back. A scandal only in the minds that Fox controls
ISIS - McCain would do what - invade? Kill 10,000 more Americans?

It might not be kosher to laugh at retards saying retarded things, but my God, jon. I needed a good laugh this morning. Thank you.

[Rob Iola]

Man, talk about missing the point. What a couple of morans.

The point is…Solyndra!!!

Solyndra Green is People!!!

[VictorG]

http://missoulian.com/news/national/pro ... 7365b.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



WASHINGTON (AP) — At the RV Park he owns in a remote corner of southwestern Kansas, Jan Leonard is seeing the benefits of one of the federal government's most contentious programs.

Development is booming in tiny Hugoton, a town of roughly 3,900 people. The town is the site of a new cellulosic ethanol refinery that was funded in part by a loan guarantee from the Department of Energy. The same program funded high profile flops like Solyndra, the California-based solar company that filed for bankruptcy and led to hearings over the Barack Obama administration's backing of unproven green-energy projects.

But in Hugoton, which Leonard describes as "pretty far from nothing," more trailers rolling in to his park and new businesses are popping up.

"There's a Dollar General getting built, a new motel getting built. Another grocery store getting built," Leonard said in a phone interview. "There's a lot of different people coming to town. It's been big."

The plant has a work force of 75 and an annual payroll of $5 million. When it was established in 2009, as part of Obama's stimulus package, the clean energy loan guarantee program was billed as a two-fer: It would provide billions of dollars for environment-friendly energy and it would create jobs.

Instead, the program became synonymous with failure and a regular talking point for conservatives.

Besides Solyndra, three other subsidized companies went bust at a cost of $780 million. Critics, especially Republicans in Congress, seized on it as an example of government waste.

But roughly six years on, there are more signs that the program is working. In California, Tesla Motors has flourished, paying back a $465 million loan nearly 10 years early. A handful of companies have opened solar energy sites and signed long term contracts to sell power to utility companies.

And then there is the Abengoa biorefinery in Hugoton, where Energy Secretary Ernest Moniz came in October for the opening. He was joined by two Kansas officials who voted against the stimulus package: Republicans Sen. Pat Roberts and Gov. Sam Brownback, a former senator.

"This program, let me say, not only here in Hugoton, but across the board has been a tremendous success," Moniz said. "I mentioned $30 billion in loans with a 2 percent default rate — that is a pretty enviable in any portfolio."

Roberts and Brownback say they voted against the stimulus package for other reasons.

"The governor strongly supports the Abengoa project," said Eileen Hawley, a spokeswoman for Brownback.

Despite the program's failures, the department now projects a profit of between $5 billion and $6 billion over the next 20 to 25 years. Overall, 20 of the program's 30 enterprises are operating and generating revenues so far, according to the department.

The successful projects include a site in Alamosa, Colorado, that is the world's largest generator of high concentration photovalic energy, which is a type of solar power. The operator, power company Cogentrix, has 10 permanent operations positions in addition to supply line jobs.

Overall, the Department of Energy claims the program has created or saved roughly 35,000 permanent jobs.

Republicans have argued that the investments are risky and the program mismanaged, as Solyndra demonstrated, though improvements have been made.

"We are not out of the woods by any stretch," said Michigan Rep. Fred Upton, chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee. "Our oversight efforts will continue as problems still persist, and more needs to be done to protect billions of dollars in taxpayer interests."

But supporters say government investment is necessary for innovative energy enterprises.

"It's very hard to get commercial scale financing, especially for these types of projects," said Nancy Pfund, a managing partner with DBL Investor, a San Francisco-based venture capital company with holdings in two companies backed by the program. "It's been a very positive force in that respect."

Mike Garland, CEO of Pattern Energy Group, a company focused on wind energy investments, said he was turned down by the program in part because he could get other financing.

"I kind of respected that about the program," said Garland. "I would have liked to have had a lower cost of capital, lower cost of debt. But it is run in a way that said, 'your deal is too good. You don't need it.'"

The loan program's director, Peter Davidson, said the program had a specific target.

"Commercial lenders are often unwilling to finance the first few commercial-scale projects that use a new technology because there is not yet a history of performance or operation," he said.

The refinery in Hugoton, built by Seville, Spain-based Abengoa, is the largest cellulosic biorefinery in the world, producing up to 25 million gallons ethanol fueled by non-edible waste. About $132 million of the plant's $500 million cost was backed by the loan guarantee program.

Abengoa buys biomass from local farmers that would otherwise be useless and sells the refined biofuels through trading companies in the U.S., Europe and parts of Asia.

[AZGrizFan]

Development is booming in tiny Hugoton, a town of roughly 3,900 people. The town is the site of a new cellulosic ethanol refinery that was funded in part by a loan guarantee from the Department of Energy. The same program funded high profile flops like Solyndra, the California-based solar company that filed for bankruptcy and led to hearings over the Barack Obama administration's backing of unproven green-energy projects.

"There's a Dollar General getting built, a new motel getting built. Another grocery store getting built," Leonard said in a phone interview. "There's a lot of different people coming to town. It's been big."

The plant has a work force of 75 and an annual payroll of $5 million. When it was established in 2009, as part of Obama's stimulus package, the clean energy loan guarantee program was billed as a two-fer: It would provide billions of dollars for environment-friendly energy and it would create jobs.

So they're building a Dollar General and a new motel and a grocery store for 75 additional people?

[VictorG]

So they're building a Dollar General and a new motel and a grocery store for 75 additional people?

Which right there alone is more than the "other side" has done in 6 years...Beside you happened to skip the best information.....I wonder why?

[AZGrizFan]

So they're building a Dollar General and a new motel and a grocery store for 75 additional people?

Which right there alone is more than the "other side" has done in 6 years...Beside you happened to skip the best information.....I wonder why?

No reason. Just thought it was funny as hell that 75 more people (assuming they ALL come from out of town) would necessitate and/or be able to support all that new infrastructure. How long until the Dollar General is abandoned?

[travelinman67]

Not viable.

There are reasons why commercial funding is unavailable and facility design/manufacturing is not domestically available.

The concept is only experimental.

I'm hoping to complete an OSGPTB (Obnoxious Squirrel Gang Pedaling Tiny Bicycles ) generation facility by 2016 pending my $510 million EPA grant.

Hey, bulk walnuts aren't cheap.

[Chizzang]

Not viable.

There are reasons why commercial funding is unavailable and facility design/manufacturing is not domestically available.

The concept is only experimental.

I'm hoping to complete an OSGPTB (Obnoxious Squirrel Gang Pedaling Tiny Bicycles ) generation facility by 2016 pending my $510 million EPA grant.

Hey, bulk walnuts aren't cheap.

I've seen funding for worse ideas...

[AZGrizFan]

Not viable.

There are reasons why commercial funding is unavailable and facility design/manufacturing is not domestically available.

The concept is only experimental.

I'm hoping to complete an OSGPTB (Obnoxious Squirrel Gang Pedaling Tiny Bicycles ) generation facility by 2016 pending my $510 million EPA grant.

Hey, bulk walnuts aren't cheap.

I've seen funding for worse ideas...

Like Solyndra?

[travelinman67]

Not viable.

There are reasons why commercial funding is unavailable and facility design/manufacturing is not domestically available.

The concept is only experimental.

I'm hoping to complete an OSGPTB (Obnoxious Squirrel Gang Pedaling Tiny Bicycles ) generation facility by 2016 pending my $510 million EPA grant.

Hey, bulk walnuts aren't cheap.

I've seen funding for worse ideas...

It worked on paper...

...until the Feds added the SEIU rider.


Fucking purple-shirted rodents

[Chizzang]

I've seen funding for worse ideas...

Like Solyndra?

Meh...
Redpoint has a pretty high hit rate
although they've missed a few booms like Bluetooth and Play-Fi



you win some you lose some

[CID1990]

So they're building a Dollar General and a new motel and a grocery store for 75 additional people?

Which right there alone is more than the "other side" has done in 6 years...Beside you happened to skip the best information.....I wonder why?

Yeah- an electric car that only the rich can afford even after subsidies is a game changer.

[AZGrizFan]

A 2% default rate on a loan portfolio gets you fired in the real world.

[Chizzang]

A 2% default rate on a loan portfolio gets you fired in the real world.

Or bailed out - depending on how you define "The real world"

[dbackjon]

Development is booming in tiny Hugoton, a town of roughly 3,900 people. The town is the site of a new cellulosic ethanol refinery that was funded in part by a loan guarantee from the Department of Energy. The same program funded high profile flops like Solyndra, the California-based solar company that filed for bankruptcy and led to hearings over the Barack Obama administration's backing of unproven green-energy projects.

"There's a Dollar General getting built, a new motel getting built. Another grocery store getting built," Leonard said in a phone interview. "There's a lot of different people coming to town. It's been big."

The plant has a work force of 75 and an annual payroll of $5 million. When it was established in 2009, as part of Obama's stimulus package, the clean energy loan guarantee program was billed as a two-fer: It would provide billions of dollars for environment-friendly energy and it would create jobs.

So they're building a Dollar General and a new motel and a grocery store for 75 additional people?

75 people with families - 200-300 people. Plus plant visitors (motel). Spending in town generates more businesses, etc. But your a banker who votes Republican, so you don't know anything about economics

[travelinman67]

So they're building a Dollar General and a new motel and a grocery store for 75 additional people?

75 people with families - 200-300 people. Plus plant visitors (motel).

Jon, I used to create that monthly...sometimes weekly.

This is akin to heralding the "challenged" student who built a "plane" out of popsicle sticks.

Producing overpriced energy IS NOT a viable industry.

[kalm]

75 people with families - 200-300 people. Plus plant visitors (motel).

Jon, I used to create that monthly...sometimes weekly.

This is akin to heralding the "challenged" student who built a "plane" out of popsicle sticks.

Producing overpriced energy IS NOT a viable industry.

This is true. Producing under-priced energy is where it's at.

[BDKJMU]

Jon, I used to create that monthly...sometimes weekly.

This is akin to heralding the "challenged" student who built a "plane" out of popsicle sticks.

Producing overpriced energy IS NOT a viable industry.

This is true. Producing under-priced energy is where it's at.

What energy is under priced?

[kalm]

This is true. Producing under-priced energy is where it's at.

What energy is under priced?

Oil, duh.