Romney - still buying profitable factories, shipping jobs to

[eagleskins]

Baldy is going to swallow Romney, but he has no idea why. The mormon thing is kiling him.

[Baldy]

Baldy is going to swallow Romney, but he has no idea why. The mormon thing is kiling him.

'kiling'??? really???

The only thing more insignificant than Romney's religion is your 'inteligence'.

[YoUDeeMan]

Baldy is going to swallow Romney, but he has no idea why. The mormon thing is kiling him.

'kiling'??? really???

The only thing more insignificant than Romney's religion is your 'inteligence'.

Romney's religion is significant to eaglesforeskins because he is a mouth-breathing bigot and a racist.

[CID1990]

Wan't that a program implemented while Bush was in office?

Never implemented...Congress blocked it. Of course, Obama went around it in July 2011.

So, let's get back to how many jobs Obama has driven overseas during his administration...I'd bet it's been FAR more than Romney.

Jobs going overseas is more a function of our economic base (consumer) than it is due to the actions of any one president. As our society becomes more affluent, more people want to work for a wage that will give them a share of that prosperity. Most large manufacturers of consumer products operate only a little above the profitability line, so there comes a point where you either move to where labor costs are lower, or you reduce or terminate operations. It is that simple.

There are theoretical ways to manipulate this, but nobody will touch those remedies, not even Democrats, because the remedy is so strong it kills the patient. For example, we could always enact laws that require US companies to maintain a certain percentage of their workforce in the US. This has to come in conjunction with a higher tariff, because if enacted alone it would allow foreign companies to compete our own companies right out of business. If we increase the tariff, then our companies will receive a larger market share, but the price of their goods will be significantly higher, leading to diminished demand. And then, we are back where we started, with American companies laying off workers to compensate; possibly innovating to automate their production to reduce overhead. Won't work.

Democrats will always demagogue outsourcing as being the fault of the right, but in truth it is an even mix of factors supported by both sides. The problem for Republicans is that most Americans are low information voters like Jon who really believe political ads are as pure as the wind driven snow.

[SDHornet]

Never implemented...Congress blocked it. Of course, Obama went around it in July 2011.

So, let's get back to how many jobs Obama has driven overseas during his administration...I'd bet it's been FAR more than Romney.

Jobs going overseas is more a function of our economic base (consumer) than it is due to the actions of any one president. As our society becomes more affluent, more people want to work for a wage that will give them a share of that prosperity. Most large manufacturers of consumer products operate only a little above the profitability line, so there comes a point where you either move to where labor costs are lower, or you reduce or terminate operations. It is that simple.

There are theoretical ways to manipulate this, but nobody will touch those remedies, not even Democrats, because the remedy is so strong it kills the patient. For example, we could always enact laws that require US companies to maintain a certain percentage of their workforce in the US. This has to come in conjunction with a higher tariff, because if enacted alone it would allow foreign companies to compete our own companies right out of business. If we increase the tariff, then our companies will receive a larger market share, but the price of their goods will be significantly higher, leading to diminished demand. And then, we are back where we started, with American companies laying off workers to compensate; possibly innovating to automate their production to reduce overhead. Won't work.

Democrats will always demagogue outsourcing as being the fault of the right, but in truth it is an even mix of factors supported by both sides. The problem for Republicans is that most Americans are low information voters like Jon who really believe political ads are as pure as the wind driven snow.

Good post. It's like the immigration issue, both sides of the aisle bitch about it, but are unwilling to do anything about it.

[YoUDeeMan]

Jobs going overseas is more a function of our economic base (consumer) than it is due to the actions of any one president. As our society becomes more affluent, more people want to work for a wage that will give them a share of that prosperity.

Democrats will always demagogue outsourcing as being the fault of the right, but in truth it is an even mix of factors supported by both sides. The problem for Republicans is that most Americans are low information voters like Jon who really believe political ads are as pure as the wind driven snow.

Yup, if consumers such as Jon and houndawg would volunteer to pay extra for each of the items they purchase, and only purchase things made in America, then more Americans could keep their jobs.

Yeah, we'll see that happen.

Simply put, Jon and houndawg, despite their howling, simply don't care about others....the selfish bastards just want the lowest price...and then they bitch about the big, bad corporations. In the meantime, Obama continues to waste money on things that aren't helping our economy.

And if he lets some of the tax breaks expire, you can be sure that big money will get out of dividend paying stocks asap and some folks will sell stocks to get the smaller capital gains taxes this year...which will drop stock prices and impact corporate borrowing and investment.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[houndawg]

There's no denying that the global economy is changing drastically, and that Americans need to be aware of it and do their best to adapt. It's just unfortunate that so many honest and hardworking people are getting the short end of the stick, while those at the very top are doing better than ever.

One word for you:

UNIONS

Go ask all the dedicated honest, hard working donk voters in Anaconda who USED to work for the smelter, struck for $1 more an hour, then watched as ARCO shut it down and sent its raw material to Japan to be smelted and sent back for less cost.

Stupid, greedy **** had the world by the balls and it wasn't enough.

dumb conk fvck.


They were leaving regardless.

[houndawg]

Jobs going overseas is more a function of our economic base (consumer) than it is due to the actions of any one president. As our society becomes more affluent, more people want to work for a wage that will give them a share of that prosperity.

Democrats will always demagogue outsourcing as being the fault of the right, but in truth it is an even mix of factors supported by both sides. The problem for Republicans is that most Americans are low information voters like Jon who really believe political ads are as pure as the wind driven snow.

Yup, if consumers such as Jon and houndawg would volunteer to pay extra for each of the items they purchase, and only purchase things made in America, then more Americans could keep their jobs.

Yeah, we'll see that happen.

Simply put, Jon and houndawg, despite their howling, simply don't care about others....the selfish bastards just want the lowest price...and then they bitch about the big, bad corporations. In the meantime, Obama continues to waste money on things that aren't helping our economy.

And if he lets some of the tax breaks expire, you can be sure that big money will get out of dividend paying stocks asap and some folks will sell stocks to get the smaller capital gains taxes this year...which will drop stock prices and impact corporate borrowing and investment.

Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Already do lots of that, Cuck.

[D1B]

Then entitlement mentality on full display. As though the reason for a business' existence is to provide YOU with a job. Few if any of the people involved would pay more than they have to to get something they need done done. They'd see nothing wrong with choosing the least expensive house painter they can get, the least expensive lawn care business, the least expensive car dealer, etc. When it's THEIR money they see nothing wrong with choosing the cheapest alternative regardless of what that means for anybody else.

But when somebody decides that what they're doing can be obtained for a lower cost, why, then it's IMMORAL!

SO TRUE!

People are hypocrites.

Couple of fucking conk dipshits here.

Conks keep shipping jobs overseas and the surplus labor army is going to annihilate you.

[YoUDeeMan]

Yup, if consumers such as Jon and houndawg would volunteer to pay extra for each of the items they purchase, and only purchase things made in America, then more Americans could keep their jobs.

Already do lots of that, Cuck.

"lots"....

What TV do you own...where are your shirts made...your shoes...your computer...your phone...your skirts?

If I went through your belongings, there would be a trail of items that you've purchased that led directly to the loss of American jobs. Selfish bastard.

And your fellow Democrats are shipping out American jobs by the boatload...each and every day with their actions.

They need their big screen, foreign made TV so that they can listen to Pelosi tell them that they are victims and it is the decisions by rich people that are driving out the jobs.

[YoUDeeMan]

SO TRUE!

People are hypocrites.

Couple of fucking conk dipshits here.

Conks keep shipping jobs overseas and the surplus labor army is going to annihilate you.

I don't worry about an army of people killing me...Obama is making it cool for the unemployed to be in the services again...and he's keeping our boys busy enough in Uganda, Syria, and Afghanistan (Hey, we're up to 224 U.S. folks killed in Affy so far this year...2088 overall, including three more dead U.S. boys on Wednesday...where's the outrage ) and killing more of them than ever. Thumbs up from you Donks!

But don't worry, we've also killed 83 Affy civilians (remember, we count anyone of military age as an enemy combatant - Obama's Change in the headcount, not Bush's) so that means 83 kids and mothers. Eliminating competition from low paid third world workers...brilliant plan from Obama.

[ASUG8]

You righties have NO CLUE whatsoever.

It is sickening the attitude on this board, and by the lack of fundamental understanding of economics, and what it means to be an American.

Unfettered Capitalism is just as bad as Communism. Neither serve the populace as a whole

Management 101: The goal of a business is to maximize shareholder wealth. If you want to pay 50% more for car parts just have them round it up next time you buy something so your conscience will be soothed.

So, this outsourcing is going on now by a company that is majority owned by Bain Capital? A company that Mitt Romney doesn't run and hasn't for years? He's a shareholder and they're maximizing their returns that he'll benefit from, but I don't think you can hold Romney accountable for the actions of a company where he's only a shareholder. It's a real reach for the Guardian and you to try to connect him to outsourcing jobs by proxy as a shareholder.

I probably have some BP stock in my 401K mutual funds, so I guess I should feel bad about the environmental impact of the Gulf spill that I caused by your logic.

[Grizalltheway]

You righties have NO CLUE whatsoever.

It is sickening the attitude on this board, and by the lack of fundamental understanding of economics, and what it means to be an American.

Unfettered Capitalism is just as bad as Communism. Neither serve the populace as a whole

Management 101: The goal of a business is to maximize shareholder wealth. If you want to pay 50% more for car parts just have them round it up next time you buy something so your conscience will be soothed.

So, this outsourcing is going on now by a company that is majority owned by Bain Capital? A company that Mitt Romney doesn't run and hasn't for years? He's a shareholder and they're maximizing their returns that he'll benefit from, but I don't think you can hold Romney accountable for the actions of a company where he's only a shareholder. It's a real reach for the Guardian and you to try to connect him to outsourcing jobs by proxy as a shareholder.

I probably have some BP stock in my 401K mutual funds, so I guess I should feel bad about the environmental impact of the Gulf spill that I caused by your logic.

Article says it's majority-owned by Bain, doesn't that mean they have the final say in decisions like this?

[ASUG8]

Management 101: The goal of a business is to maximize shareholder wealth. If you want to pay 50% more for car parts just have them round it up next time you buy something so your conscience will be soothed.

So, this outsourcing is going on now by a company that is majority owned by Bain Capital? A company that Mitt Romney doesn't run and hasn't for years? He's a shareholder and they're maximizing their returns that he'll benefit from, but I don't think you can hold Romney accountable for the actions of a company where he's only a shareholder. It's a real reach for the Guardian and you to try to connect him to outsourcing jobs by proxy as a shareholder.

I probably have some BP stock in my 401K mutual funds, so I guess I should feel bad about the environmental impact of the Gulf spill that I caused by your logic.

Article says it's majority-owned by Bain, doesn't that mean they have the final say in decisions like this?

Sure they do, but again you can hate Bain for what they're doing, you can hate Romney for being a shareholder, but it's difficult to make a case that Romney is behind it since he's campaigning for president of the US. I don't like that this is happening either, but having worked for a company formerly owned by Bain at one point I understand their philosophy on running businesses.

[Franks Tanks]

You righties have NO CLUE whatsoever.

It is sickening the attitude on this board, and by the lack of fundamental understanding of economics, and what it means to be an American.

Unfettered Capitalism is just as bad as Communism. Neither serve the populace as a whole

What people refuse to mention is that firms like Bain Capital often create many more jobs than they cut. Private equity provides a cash infusion and management willing to make the hard decisions that often leave compaines much better off than when they started.

People sometimes get laid off when a private equity firm takes over but the subsequent re-structing creates a more viable organization which in turn employs many additional people for many years. Perhaps Mitt should run an add featuring people who's jobs were saved, or added, because of the work done by Bain.

[Ibanez]

Management 101: The goal of a business is to maximize shareholder wealth. If you want to pay 50% more for car parts just have them round it up next time you buy something so your conscience will be soothed.

So, this outsourcing is going on now by a company that is majority owned by Bain Capital? A company that Mitt Romney doesn't run and hasn't for years? He's a shareholder and they're maximizing their returns that he'll benefit from, but I don't think you can hold Romney accountable for the actions of a company where he's only a shareholder. It's a real reach for the Guardian and you to try to connect him to outsourcing jobs by proxy as a shareholder.

I probably have some BP stock in my 401K mutual funds, so I guess I should feel bad about the environmental impact of the Gulf spill that I caused by your logic.

Article says it's majority-owned by Bain, doesn't that mean they have the final say in decisions like this?

Right, but Mitt is not at the helm. He isn't working for Bain. Like G8 said, if we're going to hold people accountable for the companies in which they invest in, then I'm guilty of some bad stuff that Ford and Citibank have done.

[Baldy]

You righties have NO CLUE whatsoever.

It is sickening the attitude on this board, and by the lack of fundamental understanding of economics, and what it means to be an American.

Unfettered Capitalism is just as bad as Communism. Neither serve the populace as a whole

What people refuse to mention is that firms like Bain Capital often create many more jobs than they cut. Private equity provides a cash infusion and management willing to make the hard decisions that often leave compaines much better off than when they started.

People sometimes get laid off when a private equity firm takes over but the subsequent re-structing creates a more viable organization which in turn employs many additional people for many years. Perhaps Mitt should run an add featuring people who's jobs were saved, or added, because of the work done by Bain.

That doesn't fit the Donk meme.
Companies who bring in firms like Bain don't do so for the hell of it. If a company solicits Bain Capital, it's because they are about to go tits up and need help restructuring the company. It's election season, all you're going to hear about is the few like GST Steel and not the 150+ companies that Bain Capital actually saved from going under.

[Ibanez]

What people refuse to mention is that firms like Bain Capital often create many more jobs than they cut. Private equity provides a cash infusion and management willing to make the hard decisions that often leave compaines much better off than when they started.

People sometimes get laid off when a private equity firm takes over but the subsequent re-structing creates a more viable organization which in turn employs many additional people for many years. Perhaps Mitt should run an add featuring people who's jobs were saved, or added, because of the work done by Bain.

That doesn't fit the Donk meme.
Companies who bring in firms like Bain don't do so for the hell of it. If a company solicits Bain Capital, it's because they are about to go tits up and need help restructuring the company. It's election season, all you're going to hear about is the few like GST Steel and not the 150+ companies that Bain Capital actually saved from going under.

I work for a company that was restructured under Carlsyle Group. I believe they are still involved, however, during the buy out, we had minimal layoffs and are stronger than ever. Democrats will avoid the good a company does and focus on the failures or the bad. IT's the nature of the beast and it's what appeals to Americans. American's don't want to hear how a company succeded. Just my

[Grizalltheway]

You righties have NO CLUE whatsoever.

It is sickening the attitude on this board, and by the lack of fundamental understanding of economics, and what it means to be an American.

Unfettered Capitalism is just as bad as Communism. Neither serve the populace as a whole

What people refuse to mention is that firms like Bain Capital often create many more jobs than they cut. Private equity provides a cash infusion and management willing to make the hard decisions that often leave compaines much better off than when they started.

People sometimes get laid off when a private equity firm takes over but the subsequent re-structing creates a more viable organization which in turn employs many additional people for many years. Perhaps Mitt should run an add featuring people who's jobs were saved, or added, because of the work done by Bain.

Don't you think he would have done that by know if it reflected reality?

[houndawg]

Already do lots of that, Cuck.

"lots"....

What TV do you own...where are your shirts made...your shoes...your computer...your phone...your skirts?

If I went through your belongings, there would be a trail of items that you've purchased that led directly to the loss of American jobs. Selfish bastard.

And your fellow Democrats are shipping out American jobs by the boatload...each and every day with their actions.

They need their big screen, foreign made TV so that they can listen to Pelosi tell them that they are victims and it is the decisions by rich people that are driving out the jobs.

Shop locally when I can, buy locally grown food.

Don't even have a TV, Huck.

[Franks Tanks]

What people refuse to mention is that firms like Bain Capital often create many more jobs than they cut. Private equity provides a cash infusion and management willing to make the hard decisions that often leave compaines much better off than when they started.

People sometimes get laid off when a private equity firm takes over but the subsequent re-structing creates a more viable organization which in turn employs many additional people for many years. Perhaps Mitt should run an add featuring people who's jobs were saved, or added, because of the work done by Bain.

Don't you think he would have done that by know if it reflected reality?

It is reality like it or not. Mitt is probably trying to completely avoid the subject because yahoo's like you can't process the actual information.

Like Ibanez I had a similar experience with private equity. My first job was at a family owned business with about 300 employees. The salaries were competitive but everything else at the place was done on the cheap. Internal systems were very old and cumbersome. Benefits, vacation and perks were poor so employee turnover was too high. The family sold the business to private equity and things changed for the better. Virtually all of the old systems and process bottlenecks were fixed very quickly. It became a better place to work. Now 7 or 8 years later the company (which I left a long time ago) has about 450 employees and opened another location in a different city. Here jobs were created right in the USA by private equity.

[Grizalltheway]

Don't you think he would have done that by know if it reflected reality?

It is reality like it or not. Mitt is probably trying to completely avoid the subject because yahoo's like you can't process the actual information.

Never said it wasn't true, Tanker. I said earlier in the thread that outsourcing and restructuring are sometimes the only ways to keep a company from going under. I just think it would be pretty simple for the Romney camp to counter with ads showcasing the companies where Bain's management resulted in a net increase in jobs.

[Franks Tanks]

It is reality like it or not. Mitt is probably trying to completely avoid the subject because yahoo's like you can't process the actual information.

Never said it wasn't true, Tanker. I said earlier in the thread that outsourcing and restructuring are sometimes the only ways to keep a company from going under. I just think it would be pretty simple for the Romney camp to counter with ads showcasing the companies where Bain's management resulted in a net increase in jobs.

Bain has many examples-- Staples being one of them. Altough Staples was more of a venture captial situation.

[Gil Dobie]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012 ... utsourcing

The shock of losing a precious job in a town afflicted by high unemployment is always hard. A foundation for a stable family life and secure home instantly disappears, replaced with a future filled with fears over health insurance, missed mortgage payments and the potential for a slip below the breadline.

But for Bonnie Borman – and 170 other men and women in Freeport, Illinois – there is a brutal twist to the torture. Borman, 52, and the other workers of a soon-to-be-shuttered car parts plant are personally training the Chinese workers who will replace them.

It's a surreal experience, they say. For months they have watched their plant being dismantled and shipped to China, piece by piece, as they show teams of Chinese workers how to do the jobs they have dedicated their lives to.

"It's not easy to get up in the morning, training them to do your job so that you can be made unemployed," said Borman, pictured, a mother of three who has worked for 23 years at the Sensata auto sensors plant.

Make up your minds now, it's okay to have illegal immigrants work in this country, but not okay to have the work at the same jobs from their home country.

[AZGrizFan]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012 ... utsourcing

The shock of losing a precious job in a town afflicted by high unemployment is always hard. A foundation for a stable family life and secure home instantly disappears, replaced with a future filled with fears over health insurance, missed mortgage payments and the potential for a slip below the breadline.

But for Bonnie Borman – and 170 other men and women in Freeport, Illinois – there is a brutal twist to the torture. Borman, 52, and the other workers of a soon-to-be-shuttered car parts plant are personally training the Chinese workers who will replace them.

It's a surreal experience, they say. For months they have watched their plant being dismantled and shipped to China, piece by piece, as they show teams of Chinese workers how to do the jobs they have dedicated their lives to.

"It's not easy to get up in the morning, training them to do your job so that you can be made unemployed," said Borman, pictured, a mother of three who has worked for 23 years at the Sensata auto sensors plant.

Make up your minds now, it's okay to have illegal immigrants work in this country, but not okay to have the work at the same jobs from their home country.