We Are At War

[CID1990]

Oil isnt king because we somehow propped it up at the expense of everything else. That is an unfortunate viewpoint, but a simple one to have, and therefore appealing to those who dont think for themselves.

Oil is king because the internal combustion engine and later the turbine were the first technologies that revolutionized the industrial age. Fossil fuel energy has had nearly a 200 year head start on the other technologies (starting with the wood and coal fired steam engines). The world's infrastructure is based on fossil fuels, and any country's competitive success over the last 100 years has been largely tied to its ability to secure enough fossil fuel resources to power its industries and its ability to protect those resources.

As nice as it sounds to argue that we should be subsidizing alternate energy sources, it just does not and will not happen that way. Wind and solar technology is STILL not where it needs to be in order to wean us off oil to any significant extent. When we are forced economically and strategically to change, then we will change. Until then, oil is king and we (along with every other developed country in the world) will continue to rely on an industrial infrastructure system that depends on it.

If we are ready to cede the rest of the world to China and Brazil, while simultaneously sacrificing the lions share of our own standard of living, then we can get off oil pretty quickly. For a country where even the stinkiest green hippie would be lost withou his Ipod, I would say that none of us is ready to make those sacrifices. Not even the most liberal enviro nut.

[Ibanez]

My wife is a graduate student and this semester they've been discussing Chinas economy( She is on a MBA program). She is studying global retail manufacturing. Anyway, china is losing millions of jobs from American and other foreign countries due to their rising labor costs, high export tartiffs and the increase govt oversight. The Chinese are raising money to evaluate and implement energy efficient programs. Their energy costs are double those of Americas. China is suffering from their success and the idea of cheap labor in China no longer is the norm. One up and coming country is Vietnam. The average Chinese factory worker makes $5 an hour. Compared to $2.25 in Vietnam.

So what I am saying is that, china is, the autocracy, is losing millions and millions in foreign investments. Many American companies have relocated their manufacturing jobs to the USA because it is now cheaper. I should state the Sources are govt reports, business journals and other publications. This is just something to think about.



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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.034369,-80.159628" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Ibanez]

Oil isnt king because we somehow propped it up at the expense of everything else. That is an unfortunate viewpoint, but a simple one to have, and therefore appealing to those who dont think for themselves.

Oil is king because the internal combustion engine and later the turbine were the first technologies that revolutionized the industrial age. Fossil fuel energy has had nearly a 200 year head start on the other technologies (starting with the wood and coal fired steam engines). The world's infrastructure is based on fossil fuels, and any country's competitive success over the last 100 years has been largely tied to its ability to secure enough fossil fuel resources to power its industries and its ability to protect those resources.

As nice as it sounds to argue that we should be subsidizing alternate energy sources, it just does not and will not happen that way. Wind and solar technology is STILL not where it needs to be in order to wean us off oil to any significant extent. When we are forced economically and strategically to change, then we will change. Until then, oil is king and we (along with every other developed country in the world) will continue to rely on an industrial infrastructure system that depends on it.

If we are ready to cede the rest of the world to China and Brazil, while simultaneously sacrificing the lions share of our own standard of living, then we can get off oil pretty quickly. For a country where even the stinkiest green hippie would be lost withou his Ipod, I would say that none of us is ready to make those sacrifices. Not even the most liberal enviro nut.

we are losing the war on this. During my one month travel of Europe last year, wind turbines and solar energy is everywhere for huge banks to al the farms on the road between Munich and Salzburg. I agree, it isn't a turnkey solution, per se, but other countries are developing it. Fossil fuels just isn't sustainable.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.034170,-80.159720" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[CID1990]

Oil isnt king because we somehow propped it up at the expense of everything else. That is an unfortunate viewpoint, but a simple one to have, and therefore appealing to those who dont think for themselves.

Oil is king because the internal combustion engine and later the turbine were the first technologies that revolutionized the industrial age. Fossil fuel energy has had nearly a 200 year head start on the other technologies (starting with the wood and coal fired steam engines). The world's infrastructure is based on fossil fuels, and any country's competitive success over the last 100 years has been largely tied to its ability to secure enough fossil fuel resources to power its industries and its ability to protect those resources.

As nice as it sounds to argue that we should be subsidizing alternate energy sources, it just does not and will not happen that way. Wind and solar technology is STILL not where it needs to be in order to wean us off oil to any significant extent. When we are forced economically and strategically to change, then we will change. Until then, oil is king and we (along with every other developed country in the world) will continue to rely on an industrial infrastructure system that depends on it.

If we are ready to cede the rest of the world to China and Brazil, while simultaneously sacrificing the lions share of our own standard of living, then we can get off oil pretty quickly. For a country where even the stinkiest green hippie would be lost withou his Ipod, I would say that none of us is ready to make those sacrifices. Not even the most liberal enviro nut.

we are losing the war on this. During my one month travel of Europe last year, wind turbines and solar energy is everywhere for huge banks to al the farms on the road between Munich and Salzburg. I agree, it isn't a turnkey solution, per se, but other countries are developing it. Fossil fuels just isn't sustainable.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.034170,-80.159720" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course fossil fuels aren't sustainable.

However, your mention of Europe is case in point. Those wind and solar farms you talk about are almost completely EU subsidized, and you can add that as reason number 23,657 as to why the EU is failing fast.

Again, countries will not ultimately make the changes until they are forced to, either economically or strategically, and we are not there yet. To do so prematurely is, well, look at Europe. (Also note that they are further shooting themselves in the foot by choking off nuclear.)

[Grizalltheway]

Oil isnt king because we somehow propped it up at the expense of everything else. That is an unfortunate viewpoint, but a simple one to have, and therefore appealing to those who dont think for themselves.

Oil is king because the internal combustion engine and later the turbine were the first technologies that revolutionized the industrial age. Fossil fuel energy has had nearly a 200 year head start on the other technologies (starting with the wood and coal fired steam engines). The world's infrastructure is based on fossil fuels, and any country's competitive success over the last 100 years has been largely tied to its ability to secure enough fossil fuel resources to power its industries and its ability to protect those resources.

As nice as it sounds to argue that we should be subsidizing alternate energy sources, it just does not and will not happen that way. Wind and solar technology is STILL not where it needs to be in order to wean us off oil to any significant extent. When we are forced economically and strategically to change, then we will change. Until then, oil is king and we (along with every other developed country in the world) will continue to rely on an industrial infrastructure system that depends on it.

If we are ready to cede the rest of the world to China and Brazil, while simultaneously sacrificing the lions share of our own standard of living, then we can get off oil pretty quickly. For a country where even the stinkiest green hippie would be lost withou his Ipod, I would say that none of us is ready to make those sacrifices. Not even the most liberal enviro nut.

we are losing the war on this. During my one month travel of Europe last year, wind turbines and solar energy is everywhere for huge banks to al the farms on the road between Munich and Salzburg. I agree, it isn't a turnkey solution, per se, but other countries are developing it. Fossil fuels just isn't sustainable.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.034170,-80.159720" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dude, WTF is with the coordinates of your current location in your sig?

[JohnStOnge]

I think China will use whatever it can use. They may be looking into solar and wind energy but, unlike us, they are not going to turn their noses up at fossil fuels. No way China would be doing what we're doing where we avoid using certain fossil fuel resources due to esoteric concerns.

Put it this way: If China had jurisdication over the Oil Fields in what we call ANWAR they would be utilizing them. Same with offshore oil resources off of Florida and California.

[Ibanez]

we are losing the war on this. During my one month travel of Europe last year, wind turbines and solar energy is everywhere for huge banks to al the farms on the road between Munich and Salzburg. I agree, it isn't a turnkey solution, per se, but other countries are developing it. Fossil fuels just isn't sustainable.


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I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=33.034170,-80.159720" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Dude, WTF is with the coordinates of your current location in your sig?

GODDAMN IPHONE!

[Ibanez]

I think China will use whatever it can use. They may be looking into solar and wind energy but, unlike us, they are not going to turn their noses up at fossil fuels. No way China would be doing what we're doing where we avoid using certain fossil fuel resources due to esoteric concerns.

Put it this way: If China had jurisdication over the Oil Fields in what we call ANWAR they would be utilizing them. Same with offshore oil resources off of Florida and California.

NO SHIT! That has already been stated. China will destroy thier resources. China is the Decepticon.

[Grizalltheway]

Dude, WTF is with the coordinates of your current location in your sig?

GODDAMN IPHONE!

Well, I enjoyed stalking you while I could.

[93henfan]

Dude, WTF is with the coordinates of your current location in your sig?

GODDAMN IPHONE!

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I am here: http://g.co/maps/p2jpu

[Grizalltheway]

GODDAMN IPHONE!

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I am here: http://g.co/maps/p2jpu

In your dreams!

[BDKJMU]

We've got enough coal/oil/natty gas to last us through the next century. Have had massive new discoveries in oil, natty gas (Shale) over the last decade, including in the US. Govt subsidized windmills & solar plants isn't going to cut it. Ex- One fistful of coal, one acre of solar panels= same energy output in one hr. Only thing that is going to wean us off of fossil fuels to a large extent is nuclear. But the regulatory red tape & NIMBYism to get a nuclear plant built is astronomical, and we should have started building dozens of new ones years ago (or better yet several thousand of the small ones like the Navy uses to power nuke ships), but we haven't.