Another year and....

[dbackjon]

Jacksonville and Dayton did not deserve to be in the playoffs, end of story. If you are from a non-power FCS conference, you have to schedule multiple big time games and win. Think Gonzaga and Butler in college basketball.

Plus, Gonzaga and Butler give the same number of schollies as any other team

[CoachL]

Neither Jacksonville nor Dayton deserved an at-large bid.

Neither did SCST. Or Liberty.

However, the PFL does deserve an AQ just like every other FCS conference with 6 teams that have played together for 2 years that wants one.

[CoachL]

Jacksonville and Dayton did not deserve to be in the playoffs, end of story. If you are from a non-power FCS conference, you have to schedule multiple big time games and win. Think Gonzaga and Butler in college basketball.

Plus, Gonzaga and Butler give the same number of schollies as any other team

Whoa!

Butler's basketball budget is millions and millions less than most "major" basketball programs' budgets.

People are knocking the PFL for not having sufficient financial commitment to football. The very same could be said about Butler basketball.

If one wants to talk purely about $$$ spent on football, I'm quite certain that more grant and scholarship money (non-athletic) is awarded to Butler (and Dayton) football players than is spent on athletic scholarships at most of the public institutions in the FCS.

ADD: My older son's financial aid package from Butler was worth more than a full athletic scholarship to Northern Arizona, for example.

[dbackjon]

Plus, Gonzaga and Butler give the same number of schollies as any other team

Whoa!

Butler's basketball budget is millions and millions less than most "major" basketball programs' budgets.

People are knocking the PFL for not having sufficient financial commitment to football. The very same could be said about Butler basketball.

If one wants to talk purely about $$$ spent on football, I'm quite certain that more grant and scholarship money (non-athletic) is awarded to Butler (and Dayton) football players than is spent on athletic scholarships at most of the public institutions in the FCS.

ADD: My older son's financial aid package from Butler was worth more than a full athletic scholarship to Northern Arizona, for example.

Does Butler and Duke offer the same number of scholarships? YES.
Does Butler Football and App State offer the same number of scholarships? NOPE. NONE vs 63

[SmallCollegeFBFan]

Nobody wants just a two team field but it is clear many of the leagues don't have the scholarships nor put the same amount of money in football in FCS.

Another thing that is flawed in that logic is in basketball there is so much luck involved. Even the best shooter can have a bad day and their team lose if the underrated team is hitting all their shots but in football it is more of a game of strength, schemes, and skill. We already have enough blowouts in the playoffs. Why would we want more? I don't want a BCS format in the FCS but I think 16 is the most we need. I don't think anyone ever said anything about a two team field either. That is just pure exaggeration. The least there should ever be is 8 and I believe 10-12 is ideal.

1.) Who said anything about a two-team field? Except that you may have a point there! That is the logical end-game for the limited-playoff crowd.

2.) The playoffs are not about who spends the most money on football. If it were, please see point #1.

3.) "Blowouts" like last-team-in NDSU blowing out Montana State?

4.) Have you ever played, much less coached football or basketball? "...basketball there is so much luck involved... but in football it is more of a game of strength, schemes, and skill." Are you kidding me??

5.) You haven't addressed any of the points regarding about the success of the broad NCAA basketball tourney vs. the who-gives-a-rat's-furry-behind obscurity of the FCS Playoffs.

I think Flyer said something about two teams.

I was not saying the playoffs are about who spends money on football I was saying those in the playoffs right now earned it because they spent money on scholarships and recruiting to bring in the talent to make them worthy of it.

On the blowouts my point was that we have enough right now. Whoever posted that stuff is talking about adding teams which means more blowouts. I would like to see less of them and start seeing more competitive games. I know we can never stop blowouts but we know JU and Dayton would lose in blowouts to CAA and SoCon teams so why put them in the field?

Yes I have played football and I'm sorry but if a team is much faster and bigger and stronger than can push around and run past the opponents where in basketball that can help you but having kids who can hit lights out from the 3-point line can help you win just as much.

And basketball is much different than football. Nobody wants to see 64 teams in football. The reason there are so many teams in the NCAA tourney is because we have over 300. We already have 20 of about 115 or 120 in the FCS.

The bottom line here is that the PFL has not earned the right to be selected for an at-large bid right now. You guys bring these arguments but the bottom line is JU and Dayton didn't have any quality wins that warranted them getting a berth. The committee has made their stance known so either schedule up or accept that you won't get in the playoffs.

Just an observation but has anyone noticed that the only folks complaining are the ones in the PFL? You really need folks outside of your league saying you deserve it before you have a legit beef. Look at Boise State and TCU in the FBS. They played and BEAT good teams on their schedules and EARNED spots in the BCS. JU and Dayton have yet to beat one quality team outside of their league.

[BlueHen86]

Sounds to me like some PFL fans want their conference to be the FCS version of welfare recipients. They don't want to the same amount of work as everyone else, but they want the same reward.

If the PFL wants and autobid, it's teams should do the things that autobid conference teams do.

If they want to compete for at large spots they should schedule tough OOC games and win some of them.

[CoachL]

I was not saying the playoffs are about who spends money on football I was saying those in the playoffs right now earned it because they spent money on scholarships and recruiting to bring in the talent to make them worthy of it.

Please see my prior response to dbackjon re: Butler.

On the blowouts my point was that we have enough right now. Whoever posted that stuff is talking about adding teams which means more blowouts. I would like to see less of them and start seeing more competitive games. I know we can never stop blowouts but we know JU and Dayton would lose in blowouts to CAA and SoCon teams so why put them in the field?

We "know" this? Everyone "knew" that Lehigh was going to be blown out by UNI. Everyone "knew" that NDSU (the very last team chosen in this expanded field) was going to be blown out by Montana State. Everyone "knew" that Appalachian State was going to be blown out in the Big House by Michigan.

I'm sorry, but we DON'T know that PFL teams "would lose in blowouts to CAA and SoCon teams". Only CAA and SoCon fans "know" that. That is WHY WE HAVE PLAYOFFS! To settle things ON THE FIELD! The word "upset" is in the dictionary for a reason.

Yes I have played football and I'm sorry but if a team is much faster and bigger and stronger than can push around and run past the opponents where in basketball that can help you but having kids who can hit lights out from the 3-point line can help you win just as much.

Having "kids who can hit lights out from the 3-point line" makes you a better basketball team. DUH!

And my football team was smaller and slower than each and every team we played this year. Surprise, surprise.... We actually won a few games! Everyone "knew" we were going to get blown out. Don't try to tell me that bigger, stronger, faster teams always win. I know better. Don't try to tell me that giving a kid a scholarship makes him a better football player. I know better.

And basketball is much different than football.

See. We agree on something!

Nobody wants to see 64 teams in football.

And the person who said that they wanted 64 teams in the FCS Playoffs is....???

The reason there are so many teams in the NCAA tourney is because we have over 300. We already have 20 of about 115 or 120 in the FCS.

There are 124 or 125 teams in FCS. You say that "10-12 is ideal" for the playoffs! Do the math.

The bottom line here is that the PFL has not earned the right to be selected for an at-large bid right now. You guys bring these arguments but the bottom line is JU and Dayton didn't have any quality wins that warranted them getting a berth. The committee has made their stance known so either schedule up or accept that you won't get in the playoffs.

If you thoroughly read the prior posts, you would see that I happen to agree with you that Jacksonville and Dayton did not earn an at-large bid this year. (Neither did teams like SCSU, but that's another debate.) My point is that EACH AND EVERY FCS conference/league that meets the NCAA requirements and requests an AQ should have one. Period. That includes the PFL, and would include the Ivy and SWAC if they ever pull their heads out of their collective butts.

Just an observation but has anyone noticed that the only folks complaining are the ones in the PFL?

DUH! The PFL are the only folks on the outside looking in! OF COURSE they're going to be the only ones complaining!

You really need folks outside of your league saying you deserve it before you have a legit beef.

The beef is legit, whether or not folks outside the league agree or not.

Look at Boise State and TCU in the FBS. They played and BEAT good teams on their schedules and EARNED spots in the BCS. JU and Dayton have yet to beat one quality team outside of their league.

Agreed! I've said all along that the PFL needs to upgrade their scheduling. It is starting, but it is a slow process.

Boise State and TCU shouldn't have to be better than everyone else and go undefeated to be considered, however. Look at UCONN... How did they "earn" their BCS Bowl spot??

The PFL is a full-fledged FCS conference. It fulfills every NCAA requirement for an AQ in the FCS Playoffs. It has requested an AQ. (Which seems to me to be a silly requirement, but folks like the Ivy and the SWAC powers-that-be make it necessary, I guess. )

The PFL should have an AQ. Period. That would make most of this stuff moot.

[CoachL]

Sounds to me like some PFL fans want their conference to be the FCS version of welfare recipients. They don't want to the same amount of work as everyone else, but they want the same reward.

That makes no sense whatsoever. "Same amount of work"? "Welfare recipients"??

If the PFL wants and autobid, it's teams should do the things that autobid conference teams do.

The PFL satisfies each and every requirement for an AQ, and has (per requirement) requested one. Period.

If they want to compete for at large spots they should schedule tough OOC games and win some of them.

Agreed.

[SmallCollegeFBFan]

I was not saying the playoffs are about who spends money on football I was saying those in the playoffs right now earned it because they spent money on scholarships and recruiting to bring in the talent to make them worthy of it.

Please see my prior response to dbackjon re: Butler.

On the blowouts my point was that we have enough right now. Whoever posted that stuff is talking about adding teams which means more blowouts. I would like to see less of them and start seeing more competitive games. I know we can never stop blowouts but we know JU and Dayton would lose in blowouts to CAA and SoCon teams so why put them in the field?

We "know" this? Everyone "knew" that Lehigh was going to be blown out by UNI. Everyone "knew" that NDSU (the very last team chosen in this expanded field) was going to be blown out by Montana State. Everyone "knew" that Appalachian State was going to be blown out in the Big House by Michigan.

I'm sorry, but we DON'T know that PFL teams "would lose in blowouts to CAA and SoCon teams". Only CAA and SoCon fans "know" that. That is WHY WE HAVE PLAYOFFS! To settle things ON THE FIELD! The word "upset" is in the dictionary for a reason.

Yes I have played football and I'm sorry but if a team is much faster and bigger and stronger than can push around and run past the opponents where in basketball that can help you but having kids who can hit lights out from the 3-point line can help you win just as much.

Having "kids who can hit lights out from the 3-point line" makes you a better basketball team. DUH!

And my football team was smaller and slower than each and every team we played this year. Surprise, surprise.... We actually won a few games! Everyone "knew" we were going to get blown out. Don't try to tell me that bigger, stronger, faster teams always win. I know better. Don't try to tell me that giving a kid a scholarship makes him a better football player. I know better.

And basketball is much different than football.

See. We agree on something!

Nobody wants to see 64 teams in football.

And the person who said that they wanted 64 teams in the FCS Playoffs is....???

The reason there are so many teams in the NCAA tourney is because we have over 300. We already have 20 of about 115 or 120 in the FCS.

There are 124 or 125 teams in FCS. You say that "10-12 is ideal" for the playoffs! Do the math.

The bottom line here is that the PFL has not earned the right to be selected for an at-large bid right now. You guys bring these arguments but the bottom line is JU and Dayton didn't have any quality wins that warranted them getting a berth. The committee has made their stance known so either schedule up or accept that you won't get in the playoffs.

If you thoroughly read the prior posts, you would see that I happen to agree with you that Jacksonville and Dayton did not earn an at-large bid this year. (Neither did teams like SCSU, but that's another debate.) My point is that EACH AND EVERY FCS conference/league that meets the NCAA requirements and requests an AQ should have one. Period. That includes the PFL, and would include the Ivy and SWAC if they ever pull their heads out of their collective butts.

Just an observation but has anyone noticed that the only folks complaining are the ones in the PFL?

DUH! The PFL are the only folks on the outside looking in! OF COURSE they're going to be the only ones complaining!

You really need folks outside of your league saying you deserve it before you have a legit beef.

The beef is legit, whether or not folks outside the league agree or not.

Look at Boise State and TCU in the FBS. They played and BEAT good teams on their schedules and EARNED spots in the BCS. JU and Dayton have yet to beat one quality team outside of their league.

Agreed! I've said all along that the PFL needs to upgrade their scheduling. It is starting, but it is a slow process.

Boise State and TCU shouldn't have to be better than everyone else and go undefeated to be considered, however. Look at UCONN... How did they "earn" their BCS Bowl spot??

The PFL is a full-fledged FCS conference. It fulfills every NCAA requirement for an AQ in the FCS Playoffs. It has requested an AQ. (Which seems to me to be a silly requirement, but folks like the Ivy and the SWAC powers-that-be make it necessary, I guess. )

The PFL should have an AQ. Period. That would make most of this stuff moot.

I never said Lehigh would be blown out by UNI. I did not think the MVFC was that great overall. To me NDSU beating MSU is more surprising than Lehigh beating UNI.

The PFL probably should have an AQ but they don't and did not have a team that was among the 10 best playoff eligible teams this year. It's not about the record it is about strength of schedule and who you beat and for a league without an AQ it didn't have any wins that warranted putting them in over NDSU, GSU, or even a SC State team who might have gotten blown out but was much more competitive last time it faced App than JU was.

As long as you agree they did not earn an at-large just because of their records that is all I'm looking for. Maybe one day the Ivy League and SWAC will want in the playoffs and then the PFL and GWFC (if it adds members and doesn't go exstinct) will all join the playoffs and every league will then be represented.

[nwFL Griz]

I was not saying the playoffs are about who spends money on football I was saying those in the playoffs right now earned it because they spent money on scholarships and recruiting to bring in the talent to make them worthy of it.

Please see my prior response to dbackjon re: Butler.

On the blowouts my point was that we have enough right now. Whoever posted that stuff is talking about adding teams which means more blowouts. I would like to see less of them and start seeing more competitive games. I know we can never stop blowouts but we know JU and Dayton would lose in blowouts to CAA and SoCon teams so why put them in the field?

We "know" this? Everyone "knew" that Lehigh was going to be blown out by UNI. Everyone "knew" that NDSU (the very last team chosen in this expanded field) was going to be blown out by Montana State. Everyone "knew" that Appalachian State was going to be blown out in the Big House by Michigan.

I'm sorry, but we DON'T know that PFL teams "would lose in blowouts to CAA and SoCon teams". Only CAA and SoCon fans "know" that. That is WHY WE HAVE PLAYOFFS! To settle things ON THE FIELD! The word "upset" is in the dictionary for a reason.

Yes I have played football and I'm sorry but if a team is much faster and bigger and stronger than can push around and run past the opponents where in basketball that can help you but having kids who can hit lights out from the 3-point line can help you win just as much.

Having "kids who can hit lights out from the 3-point line" makes you a better basketball team. DUH!

And my football team was smaller and slower than each and every team we played this year. Surprise, surprise.... We actually won a few games! Everyone "knew" we were going to get blown out. Don't try to tell me that bigger, stronger, faster teams always win. I know better. Don't try to tell me that giving a kid a scholarship makes him a better football player. I know better.

And basketball is much different than football.

See. We agree on something!

Nobody wants to see 64 teams in football.

And the person who said that they wanted 64 teams in the FCS Playoffs is....???

The reason there are so many teams in the NCAA tourney is because we have over 300. We already have 20 of about 115 or 120 in the FCS.

There are 124 or 125 teams in FCS. You say that "10-12 is ideal" for the playoffs! Do the math.

The bottom line here is that the PFL has not earned the right to be selected for an at-large bid right now. You guys bring these arguments but the bottom line is JU and Dayton didn't have any quality wins that warranted them getting a berth. The committee has made their stance known so either schedule up or accept that you won't get in the playoffs.

If you thoroughly read the prior posts, you would see that I happen to agree with you that Jacksonville and Dayton did not earn an at-large bid this year. (Neither did teams like SCSU, but that's another debate.) My point is that EACH AND EVERY FCS conference/league that meets the NCAA requirements and requests an AQ should have one. Period. That includes the PFL, and would include the Ivy and SWAC if they ever pull their heads out of their collective butts.

Just an observation but has anyone noticed that the only folks complaining are the ones in the PFL?

DUH! The PFL are the only folks on the outside looking in! OF COURSE they're going to be the only ones complaining!

You really need folks outside of your league saying you deserve it before you have a legit beef.

The beef is legit, whether or not folks outside the league agree or not.

Look at Boise State and TCU in the FBS. They played and BEAT good teams on their schedules and EARNED spots in the BCS. JU and Dayton have yet to beat one quality team outside of their league.

Agreed! I've said all along that the PFL needs to upgrade their scheduling. It is starting, but it is a slow process.

Boise State and TCU shouldn't have to be better than everyone else and go undefeated to be considered, however. Look at UCONN... How did they "earn" their BCS Bowl spot??

The PFL is a full-fledged FCS conference. It fulfills every NCAA requirement for an AQ in the FCS Playoffs. It has requested an AQ. (Which seems to me to be a silly requirement, but folks like the Ivy and the SWAC powers-that-be make it necessary, I guess. )

The PFL should have an AQ. Period. That would make most of this stuff moot.

I think everyone agrees with that. If the PFL has requested an AQ, they should be granted one. However, that is not the point DF is trying to make, is it? His complaint is JU and UD getting passed over in favor of OVC and MEAC teams. He uses the fact that both were 10-1 as evidence that they deserved to be in, even though those 10 wins were all less than spectacular when viewed as a playoff resume.

Tell you what, I would gladly have Montana trade this years schedule with either JU or UD. That would have guaranteed Montana a 10-1 season as well....and Montana wouldn't have deserved to get in either.

[CoachL]

Whoa!

Butler's basketball budget is millions and millions less than most "major" basketball programs' budgets.

People are knocking the PFL for not having sufficient financial commitment to football. The very same could be said about Butler basketball.

If one wants to talk purely about $$$ spent on football, I'm quite certain that more grant and scholarship money (non-athletic) is awarded to Butler (and Dayton) football players than is spent on athletic scholarships at most of the public institutions in the FCS.

ADD: My older son's financial aid package from Butler was worth more than a full athletic scholarship to Northern Arizona, for example.

Does Butler and Duke offer the same number of scholarships? YES.
Does Butler Football and App State offer the same number of scholarships? NOPE. NONE vs 63

Is the amount of grant money awarded to Butler football players greater than the amount of (athletic) grant money awarded to Appalachian State football players?

YES.

And your point is...???

[CoachL]

As long as you agree they did not earn an at-large just because of their records that is all I'm looking for.

I said that a long time ago.

Good luck getting DF to agree, however!

[SmallCollegeFBFan]

As long as you agree they did not earn an at-large just because of their records that is all I'm looking for.

I said that a long time ago.

Good luck getting DF to agree, however!

And I want to clarify on the luck comment that I'm saying the talent of the teams left in the playoffs right now is so much better than JU and Dayton that they could not overcome it with any amount of luck to pull the upset. I know luck can affect a game. Where luck can win a game or bad luck can lose it is when you have teams that are fairly equal in talent. In football if you don't have the speed or skill set to execute plays and beat a team you just won't do it.

And no DF won't agree. These Dayton fans can be quite tough to agree with. I caught so much flack for saying Valentino is good but not nearly as good as they make him out to be or that he is anywhere near AE from App State last year and that he would finish very LOW in the Payton voting and I believe Valentino didn't even finish in the top 20.

[UD1Hens]

Typical BS.... So, the PFL has to buy its way to an at large bid? And what does it matter how UD or JU would finish in the SoCon or CAA?

We already know that answer...they would be co-champs with W&M Oh, Dayton not Delaware, carry-on

[CoachL]

I think everyone agrees with that. If the PFL has requested an AQ, they should be granted one.

Actually, a lot of people don't agree with that. That's why I even entered this debate.

However, that is not the point DF is trying to make, is it? His complaint is JU and UD getting passed over in favor of OVC and MEAC teams. He uses the fact that both were 10-1 as evidence that they deserved to be in, even though those 10 wins were all less than spectacular when viewed as a playoff resume.

DF is a big boy and can fight his own battles. His battle is not my battle. We've been known to disagree in the past.

I'm actually more of an NEC fan than a PFL fan these days because I currently have progeny on an NEC roster.

My point has always been that the PFL shouldn't have to fight for at-large scraps at the playoff table. They should be seated at the table with an AQ.

[CoachL]

And I want to clarify on the luck comment that I'm saying the talent of the teams left in the playoffs right now is so much better than JU and Dayton that they could not overcome it with any amount of luck to pull the upset. I know luck can affect a game. Where luck can win a game or bad luck can lose it is when you have teams that are fairly equal in talent. In football if you don't have the speed or skill set to execute plays and beat a team you just won't do it.

I stated earlier...

And my football team was smaller and slower than each and every team we played this year. Surprise, surprise.... We actually won a few games! Everyone "knew" we were going to get blown out. Don't try to tell me that bigger, stronger, faster teams always win. I know better. Don't try to tell me that giving a kid a scholarship makes him a better football player. I know better.

I don't agree that "In football if you don't have the speed or skill set to execute plays and beat a team you just won't do it." I repeat: Upset is in the dictionary for a reason. The great thing about the FCS is that championships are earned on the field. Teams with "less talent" win football games all the time. "Luck" is only one component, and a very small one at that.

[clenz]

Does Butler and Duke offer the same number of scholarships? YES.
Does Butler Football and App State offer the same number of scholarships? NOPE. NONE vs 63

Is the amount of grant money awarded to Butler football players greater than the amount of (athletic) grant money awarded to Appalachian State football players?

YES.

And your point is...???

The cost of Butler is $29,740 dollars. The cost at Appalachian State for in state is $5,460.74, for out of state it is $16,722.

It barely costs more for a year at ASU for a non North Carolina resident than it costs for a semester at Butler. Of course a Butler student is going to get more in aid - especially compared to a NC resident at ASU - 100% of their tuition in grant is equal to 18% of a Butler students tuition


What's your point in all of that?


Oh, and if Butler football players are getting academic grant money at a higher rate than the rest of the student population - especially if they aren't "more qualified" for the money - the NCAA needs to investigate that.

[clenz]

Oh...and as for the academic side of things. According to ASU's website the average ACT of incoming freshman at ASU is 24....Butler is something like 30 - I can't find the actual number on their website

Oh, and if we are talking complete tuition and fees Butler is at about 42K per year compared to App States total $14,391 (in-state); $25,012 (out-of-state)

[clenz]

Appalachian State University Financial Aid (2008 - 09):

* Percentage of New Students Receiving Aid: 56%
* Percentage of New Students Receiving Types of Aid
o Grants: 38%
o Loans: 43%
* Average Amount of Aid
o Grants: $5,251
o Loans: $4,489
Butler University Financial Aid (2008 - 09):

* Percentage of New Students Receiving Aid: 90%
* Percentage of New Students Receiving Types of Aid
o Grants: 88%
o Loans: 58%
* Average Amount of Aid
o Grants: $13,961
o Loans: $8,937



I fail to see what you are proving with the grant money here coachL.

[SmallCollegeFBFan]

And I want to clarify on the luck comment that I'm saying the talent of the teams left in the playoffs right now is so much better than JU and Dayton that they could not overcome it with any amount of luck to pull the upset. I know luck can affect a game. Where luck can win a game or bad luck can lose it is when you have teams that are fairly equal in talent. In football if you don't have the speed or skill set to execute plays and beat a team you just won't do it.

I stated earlier...

And my football team was smaller and slower than each and every team we played this year. Surprise, surprise.... We actually won a few games! Everyone "knew" we were going to get blown out. Don't try to tell me that bigger, stronger, faster teams always win. I know better. Don't try to tell me that giving a kid a scholarship makes him a better football player. I know better.

I don't agree that "In football if you don't have the speed or skill set to execute plays and beat a team you just won't do it." I repeat: Upset is in the dictionary for a reason. The great thing about the FCS is that championships are earned on the field. Teams with "less talent" win football games all the time. "Luck" is only one component, and a very small one at that.

Here I will give you an example of what I mean. Everyone agrees that App State beating Michigan was perhaps the greatest upset ever but here is where my point is made. ASU had so much speed. Look at the 40 times of the players ASU put in the NFL from that team and look how many of them were drafted. ASU was very talented and caught Michigan overlooking them but had talent and just matched up well. Without Dexter Jackson's 4.3 speed ASU loses. If he was just a 4.5 guy ASU would have lost because both of his touchdowns would not have happened.

Most upsets in football are because a team overlooked the other. You can take someone seriously in basketball but if you miss everything and they hit the upset is going to happen. In football if all of your players are as slow as D2 or D3 teams and you are way undersized you aren't going to beat a team like App State or Delaware, etc. Coaching can overcome a slight gap or your system can if you have one like Wofford that can truly catch you by surprise but I'm saying that if the gap is too great there is no luck as in shooting great one night. You are going to get beat, as long as the team doesn't overlook you and executes. In football you can't win if you can't catch the opponent as in basketball you just have to hit shots to win. My point is that there is no way any PFL team has the talent to beat any of the top 3-4 teams in the SoCon or CAA right now. JU proved that by hanging for a half and then getting shellacked by ASU in the second half. They have improved and could potentially be good enough to pull that upset in a few years but they just don't have the horses to possibly pull that upset right now.

[BDKJMU]

The "powerful" MEAC and OVC go 0-fer in the playoffs AGAIN while two, 10-1 PFL teams are completely screwed out of an opportunity to participate in the playoffs. I simply do not see how anyone with half a brain can take an at large team out of the MEAC over two teams in the PFL.... This kind of crap causes me to completely lose interest in the so called FCS playoffs....

I agree that it was ASININE to have SCSU get at At large, but as far as the 2 10-1 PFL teams, neither of them had beaten anyone worth a damn either, and their were at least 5 teams more deserving (UR, UMass, JMU, and Montana among them) who had much better resumes.

Jacksonville's suffered a 31 point loss to ASU. Best win was by 10 over ODU, and other 9 wins over cupcakes.
Dayton lost to a cupcake in Dusquene, best win was a 2 TD win over RMU, and had another 9 wins over cupcakes.

Those resumes aren't going to get it done. Eiher upgrade your schedules and get some quality wins, or telll your league commish to get of his arse and apply for an AQ, which will simply expand the playoffs to 22 or 24.

[BDKJMU]

From a post by a very wise man over on the AGS board:

There are folks who won't be satisfied until we have a BCS system in the FCS.

Some people just don't get the fact that the playoffs are the NCAA Division I Football Championship Playoffs. Just like the NCAA basketball tournament, ALL of the conference/league champions should have a place at the table, if they so desire. The playoffs are not the "Who-gives-the-most-scholarships-playoffs" or the "FBS-wannabe-playoffs".

The reason that the NCAA basketball tournament is such a raging success is that everyone (and I mean everyone) starts out the season with the belief that their team can make it to the Final Four, even teams from weak conferences like the SoCon or Big Sky!

The expanded NCAA basketball tourney gets more people interested and involved. Yeah, let's keep the FCS Playoffs small so that the millions of fans of Appalachian State and Montana across the country can claim some sort of exclusivity!

Rhetorical question: How many "Cinderella" teams make runs in the NCAA basketball tourney that stir interest in the tourney from people without a horse in the race?

I would argue that the FCS Playoffs are stronger and more interesting to a wider audience this year simply because of expansion. They will be even stronger and far more interesting to a much wider audience when they expand further in the near future.

Fans of teams such as Appalachian State should welcome the broader appeal and broader audience for the playoffs. Just as Butler found in the NCAA Tournament this past spring, additional exposure for your institution is absolutely priceless!

But go ahead...

Keep whining about keeping the FCS Playoffs an exclusive, widely-ignored little sandbox in the corner of the American college sports world. Then when someone mentions Appalachian State to your average American, the response will be, "You mean the hillbillies have a college?"

Most of the college football world, "ie BCS" would recognize those hillbillies as the team that knocked off Michigan...

[BDKJMU]

Neither Jacksonville nor Dayton deserved an at-large bid.

Neither did SCST. Or Liberty.

However, the PFL does deserve an AQ just like every other FCS conference with 6 teams that have played together for 2 years that wants one.

Then why don't the dumba**es in charge of their league apply for one?

[BDKJMU]

From a post by a very wise man over on the AGS board:

There are folks who won't be satisfied until we have a BCS system in the FCS.

Some people just don't get the fact that the playoffs are the NCAA Division I Football Championship Playoffs. Just like the NCAA basketball tournament, ALL of the conference/league champions should have a place at the table, if they so desire. The playoffs are not the "Who-gives-the-most-scholarships-playoffs" or the "FBS-wannabe-playoffs".

The reason that the NCAA basketball tournament is such a raging success is that everyone (and I mean everyone) starts out the season with the belief that their team can make it to the Final Four, even teams from weak conferences like the SoCon or Big Sky!

The expanded NCAA basketball tourney gets more people interested and involved. Yeah, let's keep the FCS Playoffs small so that the millions of fans of Appalachian State and Montana across the country can claim some sort of exclusivity!

Rhetorical question: How many "Cinderella" teams make runs in the NCAA basketball tourney that stir interest in the tourney from people without a horse in the race?

I would argue that the FCS Playoffs are stronger and more interesting to a wider audience this year simply because of expansion. They will be even stronger and far more interesting to a much wider audience when they expand further in the near future.

Fans of teams such as Appalachian State should welcome the broader appeal and broader audience for the playoffs. Just as Butler found in the NCAA Tournament this past spring, additional exposure for your institution is absolutely priceless!

But go ahead...

Keep whining about keeping the FCS Playoffs an exclusive, widely-ignored little sandbox in the corner of the American college sports world. Then when someone mentions Appalachian State to your average American, the response will be, "You mean the hillbillies have a college?"

Nobody wants just a two team field but it is clear many of the leagues don't have the scholarships nor put the same amount of money in football in FCS.

Another thing that is flawed in that logic is in basketball there is so much luck involved. Even the best shooter can have a bad day and their team lose if the underrated team is hitting all their shots but in football it is more of a game of strength, schemes, and skill. We already have enough blowouts in the playoffs. Why would we want more? I don't want a BCS format in the FCS but I think 16 is the most we need. I don't think anyone ever said anything about a two team field either. That is just pure exaggeration. The least there should ever be is 8 and I believe 10-12 is ideal.

I agree 16 is the most we need, but now that its been expanded to 20, I don't care if the PFL applies for an auto and it goes to 22. Once you expand it past 16, then having 20 or 22 or 24 teams doesn't make much of a difference, as you are still looking at a 5 round playoff, with a # of teams getting a bye. Its either 12 bye/8 no bye, or 10 bye/12 no bye, or 8 bye/16 no bye. Usually not more than 8 teams or so deserving of a bye....

[AZGrizFan]

Using the "money spent on the program" philosophy is disingenuous at best, unless you're strictly speaking of scholarships.

Otherwise, just within the BSC alone there's a huge disparity in $$ allocated to football. That's why it's the same 4 teams that are competitive every year. It ain't rocket science.