Road Map for America

[UNI88]

Thanks for the offer my good man, but no need. If I want to remind myself of the failures of supply side/objectivist/ Friedmanonics I have many of your posts I can already reference. Or I can just refer to modern history.

So what do you propose? Obamanomics is just recycled Euro Social-Democratic economics that have dragged Europe into a deeper pit than the U.S. Adopting those policies will just make a bad situation a lot worse and for a much longer period of time. Ryan's plan is far from perfect but at least it's a plan that will start to get us out of the hole we've dug rather than the keep digging approach of trying to spend our way out of the hole.

The reality is that neither approach works all by itself. You need a blend of the two leaning towards more of a true capitalist approach (i.e. get the government out of helping pick winners and losers through subsidies and tax breaks for established industries and focusing on preventing monopolies, protecting the environment, encouraging innovation and most importantly creating & maintaining the infrastructure that businesses need to compete).

[kalm]

Thanks for the offer my good man, but no need. If I want to remind myself of the failures of supply side/objectivist/ Friedmanonics I have many of your posts I can already reference. Or I can just refer to modern history.

So what do you propose? Obamanomics is just recycled Euro Social-Democratic economics that have dragged Europe into a deeper pit than the U.S. Adopting those policies will just make a bad situation a lot worse and for a much longer period of time. Ryan's plan is far from perfect but at least it's a plan that will start to get us out of the hole we've dug rather than the keep digging approach of trying to spend our way out of the hole.

The reality is that neither approach works all by itself. You need a blend of the two leaning towards more of a true capitalist approach (i.e. get the government out of helping pick winners and losers through subsidies and tax breaks for established industries and focusing on preventing monopolies, protecting the environment, encouraging innovation and most importantly creating & maintaining the infrastructure that businesses need to compete).

Mostly agree, especially with the 2nd paragraph, and neither supply side nor the Ryan plan accomplish much in this regard.

[Baldy]

Thanks for the offer my good man, but no need. If I want to remind myself of the failures of supply side/objectivist/ Friedmanonics I have many of your posts I can already reference. Or I can just refer to modern history.

So what do you propose? Obamanomics is just recycled Euro Social-Democratic economics that have dragged Europe into a deeper pit than the U.S. Adopting those policies will just make a bad situation a lot worse and for a much longer period of time. Ryan's plan is far from perfect but at least it's a plan that will start to get us out of the hole we've dug rather than the keep digging approach of trying to spend our way out of the hole.

The reality is that neither approach works all by itself. You need a blend of the two leaning towards more of a true capitalist approach (i.e. get the government out of helping pick winners and losers through subsidies and tax breaks for established industries and focusing on preventing monopolies, protecting the environment, encouraging innovation and most importantly creating & maintaining the infrastructure that businesses need to compete).

Good post, 88.

The only real exception I have is that monopolies in the private sector (aside from one anomaly) can only be created through government fiat.

[kalm]

So what do you propose? Obamanomics is just recycled Euro Social-Democratic economics that have dragged Europe into a deeper pit than the U.S. Adopting those policies will just make a bad situation a lot worse and for a much longer period of time. Ryan's plan is far from perfect but at least it's a plan that will start to get us out of the hole we've dug rather than the keep digging approach of trying to spend our way out of the hole.

The reality is that neither approach works all by itself. You need a blend of the two leaning towards more of a true capitalist approach (i.e. get the government out of helping pick winners and losers through subsidies and tax breaks for established industries and focusing on preventing monopolies, protecting the environment, encouraging innovation and most importantly creating & maintaining the infrastructure that businesses need to compete).

Good post, 88.

The only real exception I have is that monopolies in the private sector (aside from one anomaly) can only be created through government fiat.

[UNI88]

Good post, 88.

The only real exception I have is that monopolies in the private sector (aside from one anomaly) can only be created through government fiat.

Baldy's right Kalm.

While not technically a monopoly, I also have serious concerns about corporate oligarchies that are able to use their scale and influence to stunt the growth of alternative industries. Examples of this could include Big Oil and the auto manufacturers and their bed-partners in the UAW and other unions working together to suck up subsidies and squash any potential competitor.

America is better when business and unions aren't buying influence to protect their arses.

[kalm]

Baldy's right Kalm.

While not technically a monopoly, I also have serious concerns about corporate oligarchies that are able to use their scale and influence to stunt the growth of alternative industries. Examples of this could include Big Oil and the auto manufacturers and their bed-partners in the UAW and other unions working together to suck up subsidies and squash any potential competitor.

America is better when business and unions aren't buying influence to protect their arses.

Private industry can create monopoly without government too. What you're describing is ineffectual government and I totally agree it's a huge problem, but it doesn't have to be. Remember, there is no "free market" without government.

[Baldy]

Good post, 88.

The only real exception I have is that monopolies in the private sector (aside from one anomaly) can only be created through government fiat.

We have had this discussion before. Other than the anomaly of DeBeers, name one.

[Grizalltheway]

We have had this discussion before. Other than the anomaly of DeBeers, name one.

Help me out here: how was Standard Oil enabled by the government?

[Baldy]

We have had this discussion before. Other than the anomaly of DeBeers, name one.

Help me out here: how was Standard Oil enabled by the government?

Better yet, how was Standard Oil a monopoly?

[kalm]

We have had this discussion before. Other than the anomaly of DeBeers, name one.

Microsoft?

But you're missing my point and I think you and I actually agree that government shouldn't pick winners and losers. Although I question whether or not it happens by fiat. More like sausage making. Government should set the table, and let the companies eat.

[kalm]

Just out of curiosity Baldy, do you think government should prevent and/or break up too big to fail banks?

[Baldy]

We have had this discussion before. Other than the anomaly of DeBeers, name one.

Microsoft?

But you're missing my point and I think you and I actually agree that government shouldn't pick winners and losers. Although I question whether or not it happens by fiat. More like sausage making. Government should set the table, and let the companies eat.

For every Microsoft I can give you a Mozilla, Chrome, Linux, MacOS, etc.
Fiat might be too harsh of a word, but technically, the ICC, which monopolized the trucking and rail industry, and the FCC which monopolized radio and television licensing rights were by definition government fiats. How about government privilege. Is that touchy feely enough for ya?

[Baldy]

Just out of curiosity Baldy, do you think government should prevent and/or break up too big to fail banks?

That's a non sequitur in my opinion. Nothing should be too big to fail, period.
The banking industry is probably the one industry that does need rigorous government oversight. We could learn a very valuable lesson from our neighbors to the north regarding how to run a banking system.

[JohnStOnge]

Get behind this guy and **** the tea party idiots.

I'm pretty sure Ryan is a Tea Party favorite.