The Official "Making America Woke Again" Thread

[Pwns]

I do think there are some cultures just not ready for a democratic republican government and that's one blind spot IMO NBC and CNN liberals have. In fairness to the Afghanis though, many probably feel like kids deliberately disobeying their alcoholic mom (the Afghan government and US forces) because if they don't their abusive dad (the Taliban) will get pissed when he comes home and there's no way to know how long mom will be conscious to do anything.

As far as answers, I've got nothing.

[BDKJMU]

Thank god this war is ending (I was a child when it started).

Too bad everyone died in vain. Fuck every politician involved including Biden. Fuck OBL. Fuck the military industrial complex. Fuck the suicide pilots. Fuck the CIA. Fuck the Taliban. Fuck everyone involved.

Unfortunately I don't think this is the last we'll see of the seeds we sowed 20 years ago. Future generations will suffer from this monument to America's early 21st century failure.

Wait, I thought Iraq was the bad Bush war, and Afghanistan was the good Obama war..

[UNI88]

Thank god this war is ending (I was a child when it started).

Too bad everyone died in vain. Fuck every politician involved including Biden. Fuck OBL. Fuck the military industrial complex. Fuck the suicide pilots. Fuck the CIA. Fuck the Taliban. Fuck everyone involved.

Unfortunately I don't think this is the last we'll see of the seeds we sowed 20 years ago. Future generations will suffer from this monument to America's early 21st century failure.

Wait, I thought Iraq was the bad Bush war, and Afghanistan was the good Obama war..

No, no. To Democrats, Afghanistan is only the good Obama war if it is successful. If it's a failure then it's also a bad Bush war. It's kind of like how Afghanistan is a Biden failure to Republicans despite the reality that he's pretty much following Trump's blueprint for withdrawal. If it was successful, Trump would be crowing that it was because Biden followed his blueprint rather than spouting BS about how it would have been different if the election hadn't been stolen.

[AZGrizFan]

Wait, I thought Iraq was the bad Bush war, and Afghanistan was the good Obama war..

No, no. To Democrats, Afghanistan is only the good Obama war if it is successful. If it's a failure then it's also a bad Bush war. It's kind of like how Afghanistan is a Biden failure to Republicans despite the reality that he's pretty much following Trump's blueprint for withdrawal. If it was successful, Trump would be crowing that it was because Biden followed his blueprint rather than spouting BS about how it would have been different if the election hadn't been stolen.

Here’s my two questions (because I think we should have begun the extraction process the day we killed Bin Laden)….

1) how do we NOT have a detailed plan in place to get the Afghanis who helped us OUT of the country. They are going to get slaughtered by the Taliban
2) If we’re going to leave billions of dollars in equipment over there, can we not at least disable it so it’s not usable once the Taliban ultimately get their hands on it? I heard of a base they just overran that had hundreds of humvees and drones that they now have in their possession….

[SeattleGriz]

If you ever supported Obama, please go punch your stupid gullible self in the face.

[BDKJMU]

My question is how in the heck can we spend 20 years training those fucking goat herders, leaving them all that expensive US military hardware, and as soon as we leave, they fold like a wet blanket, allowing the Taliban to go through Afghanistan faster than Sherman went through Jawjah. How is that possible?

[UNI88]

If you ever supported TrumpObama, please go punch your stupid gullible self in the face.

FYP

[SeattleGriz]

If you ever supported TrumpObama, please go punch your stupid gullible self in the face.

FYP

No. Obama didn't have shit for money and is now saying "fuck you" with his birthday super variant spreader birthday. Trump showed dignity.

[UNI88]

FYP

No. Obama didn't have shit for money and is now saying "fuck you" with his birthday super variant spreader birthday. Trump showed dignity.

By lying about bow things would be different in Afghanistan if he were still POTUS? Trump's a clown.

[SeattleGriz]

No. Obama didn't have shit for money and is now saying "fuck you" with his birthday super variant spreader birthday. Trump showed dignity.

By lying about bow things would be different in Afghanistan if he were still POTUS? Trump's a clown.

No, by throwing a tone deaf super spreader birthday party. It's okay to criticize him now. NY Times says it isn't racist any more!

Trump actually had an Afghanistan plan as well.

[∞∞∞]

My question is how in the heck can we spend 20 years training those fucking goat herders, leaving them all that expensive US military hardware, and as soon as we leave, they fold like a wet blanket, allowing the Taliban to go through Afghanistan faster than Sherman went through Jawjah. How is that possible?

It's going to be long, but I'll attempt to summarize based on my limited knowledge:

First, Afghanistan is a difficult country to form a central government; reasons range from cultural, geographically, to the fact that they were (and still are) many different people from different tribes which Europeans decided were all one country. The main problem is "Afghanistan" really isn't a thing to a lot of Afghans. That said, the Taliban are made up of the Pashtun tribe which is the largest ethnic tribe in the country so they were going to have an advantage from the onset.

Second, the Afghani government doesn't have the support of the people (remember when "President" Karzai would often be referred to as mayor of Kabul)? At the smallest level, individual villages and farmers were already on the Taliban's payroll as the Taliban provides them with welfare. At higher levels, formal towns and cities have already been paying their taxes as part of a protection racket. When the Taliban came this time around, they'd rather talk protection and politics with them than risk a fight. Also historically, the only time Afghanistan has been "united" under one government is when there's been a strong ruler who uses force and bribes to keep everyone in line.

Third, the ANA was always a paper tiger. Basically anyone who's ever been to Afghanistan has warned us about this for two decades. I recall General Petraeus testifying to Congress (ten years ago) that as soon as the US left, Afghanistan was going to collapse and that it was a completely different situation than Iraq. The expectations for the ANA were low to begin with; that said, they proved it should have been even lower.

If you have the time to watch why the ANA collapsed quickly, Vice has a documentary called "This is What Winning Looks Like." The US never stood a chance training these guys. Great watch though and gives insight into the corruption, drug use and rape of young boys by the ANA:



It was a pure selling point by US politicians that the ANA controlled 80% or whatever of Afghanistan. I think things could have gone differently, but we put some of the most corrupt people in charge of security and looked the other way because we were "winning" the war. Unfortunately corruption means the the Afghani people hated the ANA and in others longed for the Taliban. When it came time to actually defend the country, the ANA folded like the paper tiger they always were.

Fourth, there is a clear winner in this "war": American billionaires and multi-millionaires. It was 20 years of funneling money into the military industrial complex. The American public lost but the American elite won, as they always do.

With all that said, Afghanistan is about to become (yet again) a safe haven for radical Islam and terrorism. I don't believe this is the last we'll see of the effects of this war. I simply hope that we've learned our lessons if there's another September 11, but I'm skeptical.

I feel awful for the women of Afghanistan...the biggest losers here. There two things we actually improved in that country: the literacy/education of women and the medical infrastructure. I don't see either lasting very long under Taliban rule despite them saying otherwise.

The withdrawal had to be done though; we were never going to win.

[CID1990]

My question is how in the heck can we spend 20 years training those fucking goat herders, leaving them all that expensive US military hardware, and as soon as we leave, they fold like a wet blanket, allowing the Taliban to go through Afghanistan faster than Sherman went through Jawjah. How is that possible?

It's going to be long, but ll attempt to summarize based off my limited knowledge:

First, Afghanistan is a difficult country to form a central government; reasons range from cultural, geographically, to the fact that they were (and still are) many different people from different tribes which Europeans decided were all one country. The main problem is "Afghanistan" really isn't a thing to a lot of Afghans. That said, the Taliban are made up of the Pashtun tribe which is the largest ethnic tribe in the country so they were going to have an advantage from the onset. The only time there is an actual "united" Afghanistan under one government is when there's been a strong ruler who uses force and bribes to keep everyone in line.

Second, the Afghani government doesn't have the support of the people (remember when "President" Karzai would often be referred to as mayor of Kabul)? At the smallest level, individual villages and farmers were already on the Taliban's payroll as the Taliban provides them with welfare. At higher levels, formal towns and cities have already been paying their taxes as part of a protection racket. When the Taliban came this time around, they'd rather talk protection and politics with them than risk a fight.

Third, the ANA was always a paper tiger. Basically anyone who's ever been to Afghanistan has warned us about this for two decades. I recall General Petraeus testifying to Congress (ten years ago) that as soon as the US left, Afghanistan was going to collapse, and that it was a completely different situation than Iraq. The expectations for the ANA were low to begin with; that said, they proved it should have been even lower.

If you have the time to watch why the ANA collapsed quickly, Vice has a documentary called "This is What Winning Looks Like." The US never stood a chance training these guys. Great watch though and gives insight into the corruption, drug use and rape of young boys by the ANA:



It was a pure selling point by US politicians that the ANA controlled 80% or whatever of Afghanistan. I think things could have gone differently, but we put some of the most corrupt people in charge of the security of Afghanistan and looked the other way because we were "winning" the war. Unfortunately corruption means the the Afghani people hated the ANA as well, and when it came time to actually defend the country, the folded like the paper tiger that they are/were.

Fourth, there is a clear winner in this "war": American billionaires and multi-millionaires. It was 20 years of funneling money into the military industrial complex. The American public lost but the American elite won, as they always do.

With all that said, Afghanistan is about to become (yet again) a safe haven for radical Islam and terrorism. I don't believe this is the last we'll see of the effects of this war. I simply hope that we've learned our lessons, but I'm skeptical.

I feel awful for the women of Afghanistan. There two things we actually improved in that country: the literacy/education of women and the medical infrastructure there. I don't see either lasting very long under Taliban rule despite them saying otherwise.

The withdrawal had to be done though; we were never going to win.

Well damn, Treep... you’re pretty spot on about Afghanistan

You only went slightly off the rails near the end- Afghanistan is done as a safe harbor the way it was with Al Qaeda

The Taliban has been tolerant of those groups the last 5 or so years because they were the “enemy of my enemy”. But the Haqqanis have no love for the remnants of Al Qaeda and the absolutely hate ISIS-Khorasan. Once the Taliban is back in power they’ll kick the rest of AQ into Iran and they’ll fight with ISIS-K (who might get some outside help... not from the West)

The Taliban isn’t going to tolerate groups exporting terror from their own soil anytime soon


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[AZGrizFan]

And it took him a while, but he finally got round to blaming his ultimate boogey man….the millionaires and billionaires in THIS country.

Also, if he were smart enough, he’d see in his own comments the potential future of America should we continue down the “Squad” path Pelosi and others would have us on.

[Baldy]

Wait, I thought Iraq was the bad Bush war, and Afghanistan was the good Obama war..

No, no. To Democrats, Afghanistan is only the good Obama war if it is successful. If it's a failure then it's also a bad Bush war. It's kind of like how Afghanistan is a Biden failure to Republicans despite the reality that he's pretty much following Trump's blueprint for withdrawal. If it was successful, Trump would be crowing that it was because Biden followed his blueprint rather than spouting BS about how it would have been different if the election hadn't been stolen.

Don't disagree at all, but it's not Trump's fault that drones and armored Humvees are on their way to Iran. If Biden can take the credit for ending it, he has to own the disastrous way its ending.

[UNI88]

No, no. To Democrats, Afghanistan is only the good Obama war if it is successful. If it's a failure then it's also a bad Bush war. It's kind of like how Afghanistan is a Biden failure to Republicans despite the reality that he's pretty much following Trump's blueprint for withdrawal. If it was successful, Trump would be crowing that it was because Biden followed his blueprint rather than spouting BS about how it would have been different if the election hadn't been stolen.

Don't disagree at all, but it's not Trump's fault that drones and armored Humvees are on their way to Iran. If Biden can take the credit for ending it, he has to own the disastrous way its ending.

Biden could have changed Trump's plan but he didn't. He owns this.

[SeattleGriz]

Don't disagree at all, but it's not Trump's fault that drones and armored Humvees are on their way to Iran. If Biden can take the credit for ending it, he has to own the disastrous way its ending.

Biden could have changed Trump's plan but he didn't. He owns this.

Biden is following Trump's Taliban plan just like he followed Trump's border plan. He's not. He following the timeline, not the plan.

[∞∞∞]

Don't disagree at all, but it's not Trump's fault that drones and armored Humvees are on their way to Iran. If Biden can take the credit for ending it, he has to own the disastrous way its ending.

Biden could have changed Trump's plan but he didn't. He owns this.

Everyone involved in the last 20 years (and even further back) owns this. This has been a slow-motion train wreck that was going to end in a clusterfu*ck no matter the leadership. This isn't a defense of Biden...dude also owns the beginning of the war itself...but just perspective that the end isn't even the worse fuck-up. It's just another, and hopefully last, in a long list of them.

That said, we can now add ourselves to the record of empires and superpowers which failed in that region of the world.

[UNI88]

Biden could have changed Trump's plan but he didn't. He owns this.

Biden is following Trump's Taliban plan just like he followed Trump's border plan. He's not. He following the timeline, not the plan.

He is following Trump's plan - the Taliban have not broken Trump's requirements for the withdrawal. What they are doing is within the scope of the agreement that Trump laid out for them. Trump is a lying snake-oil salesman who is full of sh!t when he says that he would have done it differently. His plan is the one being implemented.

[UNI88]

Biden could have changed Trump's plan but he didn't. He owns this.

Everyone involved in the last 20 years (and even further back) owns this. This has been a slow-motion train wreck that was going to end in a clusterfu*ck no matter the leadership. This isn't a defense of Biden...dude also owns the beginning of the war itself...but just perspective that the end isn't even the worse fuck-up. It's just another, and hopefully last, in a long list of them.

That said, we can now add ourselves to the record of empires and superpowers which failed in that region of the world.

I don't disagree.

Who was the last "superpower" to succeed in Afghanistan? Alexander?

[∞∞∞]

"President" Ashraf Ghani has left the country. It's insignificant in the grand scheme of things, we knew the central government was on the brink of collapse, but it's symbolic nonetheless. Taliban will just wait out the US/allied evacuations and that'll be that.

On a side note, I'm sure we'll be reading about a Belt & Road investment in Afghanistan soon.

[∞∞∞]

Everyone involved in the last 20 years (and even further back) owns this. This has been a slow-motion train wreck that was going to end in a clusterfu*ck no matter the leadership. This isn't a defense of Biden...dude also owns the beginning of the war itself...but just perspective that the end isn't even the worse fuck-up. It's just another, and hopefully last, in a long list of them.

That said, we can now add ourselves to the record of empires and superpowers which failed in that region of the world.

I don't disagree.

Who was the last "superpower" to succeed in Afghanistan? Alexander?

Probably the Mongols, so Genghis Khan and his successors at the time. Others have held the region longer, but the Mongols are the last true empire to hold it for an extended period of time.

[SeattleGriz]

Biden is following Trump's Taliban plan just like he followed Trump's border plan. He's not. He following the timeline, not the plan.

He is following Trump's plan - the Taliban have not broken Trump's requirements for the withdrawal. What they are doing is within the scope of the agreement that Trump laid out for them. Trump is a lying snake-oil salesman who is full of sh!t when he says that he would have done it differently. His plan is the one being implemented.

Biden hasnt followed Trump in any fashion, but he's following Trump's plan on Afghanistan? No.

[SeattleGriz]

What were our military leadership doing over in Afghanistan all those years? I read $88 Billion was spent on preparing the Afghani's. Why such poor results?

In fairness to Joe. I expected more as well.

[∞∞∞]

Well damn, Treep... you’re pretty spot on about Afghanistan

You only went slightly off the rails near the end- Afghanistan is done as a safe harbor the way it was with Al Qaeda

The Taliban has been tolerant of those groups the last 5 or so years because they were the “enemy of my enemy”. But the Haqqanis have no love for the remnants of Al Qaeda and the absolutely hate ISIS-Khorasan. Once the Taliban is back in power they’ll kick the rest of AQ into Iran and they’ll fight with ISIS-K (who might get some outside help... not from the West)

The Taliban isn’t going to tolerate groups exporting terror from their own soil anytime soon.

I don't necessarily disagree. The Taliban did originally warn the US that Al-Qaeda was planning an attack, but there's also a lot of corruption in that region and money talks. I can see a situation where, once again, the tribalism and corruption in Afghanistan leads to breading grounds.

But Pakistan is doing a good enough job of it anyways, so maybe Afghanistan will be left alone. I mean in the end, terrorists are going to build and train where there's vacuums of power (Syria, Yemen, etc.) and protected the most (Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc.).

You're right in that Afghanistan isn't that place at the moment.

[∞∞∞]

And it took him a while, but he finally got round to blaming his ultimate boogey man….the millionaires and billionaires in THIS country.

Because it's true. Instead of solely focusing on the Tora Bora region where Al-Qaeda resided, politicians with vested interest in the MIC and oil (including at the highest levels) used tragedy and nationalism to sell an extended nation-building campaign in Afghanistan. Suddenly the Taliban wasn't an ally because of human-rights issues...forget that we ally with some other sh*tty nations who are more involved in terrorism...and now you've got a recipe for selling arms and other services under the guise of freeing the Afghanis.

There are many people who benefit from war and they know it; they have superfunds, lobbyists, people in positions of power, etc. They couldn't care less about other countries, or even our soldiers, as long as they can make a buck. I live in an area where many people have made a great living off war; I've had these conversations with them as recent as this year. Sometimes they're confused why I wouldn't vote for this stuff as if they're completely disconnected to what war actually means. And in many important ways, they are disconnected.