Great idea to Save the Country

[AZGrizFan]

I believe 1864 was the first appearance on coins. Cleets must be thinking of "In God We Trust" becoming the official motto of the USA 1956 and it's inclusion on paper currency in 1957.

Either way, it seemed a pretty emphatic statement, ESPECIALLY considering he was questioning somebody else's knowledge of US history.

Maybe he shouldn't have stopped drinking.

[Chizzang]

Either way, it seemed a pretty emphatic statement, ESPECIALLY considering he was questioning somebody else's knowledge of US history.

Maybe he shouldn't have stopped drinking.

What's going on did I miss something..?
I'll tell you what - not drinking has me in spectacular physical condition these days
for an old dude I am a regular picture of health

So what's all this about "In God We trust" and "The year of our Lord" and "Jesus said"..?

So just like Tea Party nut balls
After considerable lobbying by the Reverend Watkinson fought to get “In God We Trust” on a two-cent coin in 1864.. each example is more based on a religious movement applying force rather than the founding fathers plastering God all over everything - we were not founded as a christian nation - that is a lie

[AZGrizFan]

Maybe he shouldn't have stopped drinking.

What's going on did I miss something..?
I'll tell you what - not drinking has me in spectacular physical condition these days
for an old dude I am a regular picture of health

So what's all this about "In God We trust" and "The year of our Lord" and "Jesus said"..?

So just like Tea Party nut balls
After considerable lobbying by the Reverend Watkinson fought to get “In God We Trust” on a two-cent coin in 1864.. each example is more based on a religious movement applying force rather than the founding fathers plastering God all over everything - we were not founded as a christian nation - that is a lie

The founding fathers plastered God into the Declaration of Indpendence, for God's sake.

[Chizzang]

What's going on did I miss something..?
I'll tell you what - not drinking has me in spectacular physical condition these days
for an old dude I am a regular picture of health

So what's all this about "In God We trust" and "The year of our Lord" and "Jesus said"..?

So just like Tea Party nut balls
After considerable lobbying by the Reverend Watkinson fought to get “In God We Trust” on a two-cent coin in 1864.. each example is more based on a religious movement applying force rather than the founding fathers plastering God all over everything - we were not founded as a christian nation - that is a lie

The founding fathers plastered God into the Declaration of Indpendence, for God's sake.

The Declaration of Independence contains sixteen words that could be construed as real references to religion - but - in fact the document mentions that the power of government comes from the people not God:"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…”

[Ibanez]

I do agree with the founders like John Adams and Thomas Jefferson that our country is not a christian country. Being founded by men with Christian morality does not make the country they found a Christian Nation.

If anything, we're more of a Diest country.

[Chizzang]

I do agree with the founders like John Adams and Thomas Jefferson that our country is not a christian country. Being founded by men with Christian morality does not make the country they found a Christian Nation.

If anything, we're more of a Diest country.

James Madison agreed with you....
"The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State."

[Ibanez]

I do agree with the founders like John Adams and Thomas Jefferson that our country is not a christian country. Being founded by men with Christian morality does not make the country they found a Christian Nation.

If anything, we're more of a Diest country.

James Madison agreed with you....
"The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State."

Of course he would. I agree with him!

Constitution:

Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Treaty of Tripoli

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries

[DSUrocks07]

America wasn't founded as a "Christian nation", Christianity is the dominant religion here and members of government reflect that, but this whole idea that the current American govenment has a theological basis is ridiculous. People are "terrified" that these fundamentalist governments are being set up in the Middle East, whileas some desire to set up a Christian fundamentalist government here in the US. And that's supposed to be okay. No thanks.

Sent from my VM670 using Tapatalk 2

[Chizzang]

Agreed..
as important as Religion is to a society - freedom from Religion is even MORE important
Until Republicans figure that one out they will struggle

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Agreed..
as important as Religion is to a society - freedom from Religion is even MORE important
Until Republicans figure that one out they will struggle

I agree with this and the post above yours.

Repubs need to concentrate on being the party of 'fiscal responsibility-leaner government-efficient government'.

Get out of the bedroom---let people marry who they want---reform immigration.

Ya, until they get their heads out of their a**es...they will struggle.

** But when people get tired of working hard and paying more taxes so others do not have to....nothing will change.

[89Hen]

Maybe he shouldn't have stopped drinking.

What's going on did I miss something..?
I'll tell you what - not drinking has me in spectacular physical condition these days
for an old dude I am a regular picture of health

So what's all this about "In God We trust" and "The year of our Lord" and "Jesus said"..?

So just like Tea Party nut balls
After considerable lobbying by the Reverend Watkinson fought to get “In God We Trust” on a two-cent coin in 1864.. each example is more based on a religious movement applying force rather than the founding fathers plastering God all over everything - we were not founded as a christian nation - that is a lie

Correct, but the founders were 100% sure there was a creator.

[Chizzang]

What's going on did I miss something..?
I'll tell you what - not drinking has me in spectacular physical condition these days
for an old dude I am a regular picture of health

So what's all this about "In God We trust" and "The year of our Lord" and "Jesus said"..?

So just like Tea Party nut balls
After considerable lobbying by the Reverend Watkinson fought to get “In God We Trust” on a two-cent coin in 1864.. each example is more based on a religious movement applying force rather than the founding fathers plastering God all over everything - we were not founded as a christian nation - that is a lie

Correct, but the founders were 100% sure there was a creator.

Agreed
I would never attempt to dispute that...
However in the same breath they collectively had a pretty healthy distaste for organized religion

"God is an essence that we know nothing of. Until this awful blasphemy is got rid of, there will never be any liberal science in the world."

"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."

[89Hen]

However in the same breath they collectively had a pretty healthy distaste for organized religion

One side thinks freedom from religion is more important, the other that freedom of religion is more important. Both and neither are correct at the same time.

"All persons shall have full and free liberty of religious opinion; nor shall any be compelled to frequent or maintain any religious institution."

[Chizzang]

However in the same breath they collectively had a pretty healthy distaste for organized religion

One side thinks freedom from religion is more important, the other that freedom of religion is more important. Both and neither are correct at the same time.

"All persons shall have full and free liberty of religious opinion; nor shall any be compelled to frequent or maintain any religious institution."

Well duh..!!!

As someone who grew up in an Episcopal family and spent many many weekends at church I have a healthy respect for what good a church can do in a community - I also have a pretty good understanding of how dysfunctional and myopic these grand faiths are... As I have argued on this forum The collection of works known as "the Bible" are one giant step away from God and everything that happened after Constantine and the decision (out of the blue) that Jesus was God and the whole 325 & 345 meetings which are largly unknown by 99.99 % of Christians...

I'm told that the pop culture book Da Vinci Code has muddled and distorted even further these events - not helping matters at all

whatever... just keep it out of politics and away from actual science and we're good

[89Hen]

One side thinks freedom from religion is more important, the other that freedom of religion is more important. Both and neither are correct at the same time.

Well duh..!!!

I'm not convinced that's such a "duh" statement. You seem to be one of the people I described but maybe you don't realize you are.

as important as Religion is to a society - freedom from Religion is even MORE important

[Ibanez]

Freedom from religion more important than of religion, IMO. Both matter and are critical.

[Chizzang]

Well duh..!!!

I'm not convinced that's such a "duh" statement. You seem to be one of the people I described but maybe you don't realize you are.

as important as Religion is to a society - freedom from Religion is even MORE important

read: sarcasm

[CID1990]

Agreed..
as important as Religion is to a society - freedom from Religion is even MORE important
Until Republicans figure that one out they will struggle

There's nothing to figure out. Conservatives will ALWAYS struggle. 2000 years from now the problem will be the same- human nature is antithetical to the survival of large societies.

You have to think beyond your own receivership of governmental largesse and consider the world you are creating for your children.

No matter how personally inconvenient that might be.

[Chizzang]

Agreed..
as important as Religion is to a society - freedom from Religion is even MORE important
Until Republicans figure that one out they will struggle

There's nothing to figure out. Conservatives will ALWAYS struggle. 2000 years from now the problem will be the same- human nature is antithetical to the survival of large societies.

You have to think beyond your own receivership of governmental largesse and consider the world you are creating for your children.

No matter how personally inconvenient that might be.

I'm sorry I can't hear you from way up their on your fucking high horse...

[JohnStOnge]

Congress shall make NO law respecting an establishment of religion,

I can see this thread has veered off course but that's what usually happens. I'll go with it.

I've seen the thing where the "NO" in that clause is emphasized before. But what about the rest of it?

How about "CONGRESS?" How about "MAKE?" How about "LAW?"

You know, to violate that clause, the CONGRESS must make a LAW with respect to establishment of religion. Even if you take the questionable interpretation holding that the 14th Amendment extended that to the States, it still takes a legislative body making a LAW with respect to the establishment of religion.

It says nothing at all about association between Church and State. It clearly does not, for example, prohibit a school from having an informal practice of reading prayers over the intercom. It clearly does not prohibit something like a nativity scene in a public park.

If you're going to read the language read the language.

And BTW the CONGRESS appropriated funds to hire a chaplain and began holding Christian Church services in the House chamber shortly after the Bill of Rights was ratified. That ought to end any illusions you have about how the people of the time construed that language. Or rather how they did not. It's clear that what they were thinking bears no resembllance to the "interpretations" (i.e., distortions) of the First Amendment establishment clause inflicted upon us by the Supreme Court in relatively recent years.

[JohnStOnge]

as important as Religion is to a society - freedom from Religion is even MORE important

And why do you say that is? And do you really mean just "religion?" How about being free to believe what you want to believe?

Suppose your beliefs contradict egalitarianism and/or secular humanism? Are those religions? Is it important to have freedom "from" them?

How about atheism? It's a belief system. Is it important to be free "from" that?

If so, why is so much time spent by some people who say freedom of thought is important in cramming them down people's throats?

If you think "freedom from religion" is going to liberate people from being pressured to think in certain ways and believe certain things you are not paying attention.

[Chizzang]

as important as Religion is to a society - freedom from Religion is even MORE important

And why do you say that is? And do you really mean just "religion?" How about being free to believe what you want to believe?

Suppose your beliefs contradict egalitarianism and/or secular humanism? Are those religions? Is it important to have freedom "from" them?

How about atheism? It's a belief system. Is it important to be free "from" that?

If so, why is so much time spent by some people who say freedom of thought is important in cramming them down people's throats?

If you think "freedom from religion" is going to liberate people from being pressured to think in certain ways and believe certain things you are not paying attention.

I do enjoy you

Science most notable recent accomplishment just landed on Mars
Religion's most recent accomplishment flew aircraft into the twin towers and organized pedophilia

that's why

[AZGrizFan]

The founding fathers plastered God into the Declaration of Indpendence, for God's sake.

The Declaration of Independence contains sixteen words that could be construed as real references to religion - but - in fact the document mentions that the power of government comes from the people not God:"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…”

Yeah. 16 references to something in a one-page document. No big deal.

[Chizzang]

The Declaration of Independence contains sixteen words that could be construed as real references to religion - but - in fact the document mentions that the power of government comes from the people not God:"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…”

Yeah. 16 references to something in a one-page document. No big deal.

So I'm guessing you've never actually read it then...

[houndawg]

Agreed..
as important as Religion is to a society - freedom from Religion is even MORE important
Until Republicans figure that one out they will struggle

There's nothing to figure out. Conservatives will ALWAYS struggle. 2000 years from now the problem will be the same- human nature is antithetical to the survival of large societies.

You have to think beyond your own receivership of governmental largesse and consider the world you are creating for your children.

No matter how personally inconvenient that might be.

Well isn't this special? Ol' STD1990 channeling his inner liberal.....

Tell it to BP and General Electric.