Show me where I say this? I said communism rose from the failures of capitalism. It's literally stated in the Communist Manifesto. The world capitalism is even coined in the philosophy.
Cuban Uprising
Re: Cuban Uprising
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Re: Cuban Uprising
Yes capitalism has hurt people but it has also greatly improved the lives of people. It's intellectually dishonest to look at the US or the world in a vacuum and blame capitalism for peoples' woes without considering what their life would be like without capitalism. Yes there is a huge gap between the poor and the wealthy in the US but it could definitely be argued that the rising tide of capitalism has made the lives of the poor much, much better than they would have been without capitalism.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:21 am AZ, you're seeing or reading what you want to from me.
Marx and Engels (who are German btw) wrote about the effect of private capital on the working class in Europe. Capitalism at this point exists, albeit without a name, alongside monarchies and democracies.
Eventually their philosophy takes hold, sweeps throughout Europe and the world, and evolves in a million ways depending on each society. Like capitalism, the varieties of socialism lift tens of millions out of poverty. Some great things are done under those economies as well. However like all economic philosophies, many others are hurt finding themselves on the wrong side of it.
Each society and generation needs to nurture whatever economic system it has chosen to utilize to help as many people as possible. Otherwise I don't care if it's feudalism or capitalism or communism, it will eventually fail and be replaced.
Anyways, I wish the Cuban people the best whatever happens.
People are ambitious and will work to better their lives. Capitalism provides a mechanism that focuses that ambition in a way that has pushed innovation and improved the quality of life. Working for the government becomes much more attractive to those people under socialism/communism and innovation lags as a result.
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Re: Cuban Uprising
You literally move the goalposts in like 3 successive posts on your claims.
BTW, Bernie release a statement on Cuba protests yet? Think he blames the embargo or the China Virus to deflect from the failure that Communism is.
Re: Cuban Uprising
Love it or not, the Communist Manifesto is probably the most influential philosophical doctrine written since the 95 Theses.kalm wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:24 amIbanez wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:07 am
One thing that people tend to forget or just don't know is that Marx was putting forth a theory...an idea. Take all, some or none of it but his philosophies were just that. When put into practice we've seen theories prove themselves and disprove themselves. Adapt and try again.
We aren't the same capitalist country we were 40 or 50 years ago, we're changing (for better/worse is up to debate I guess.)
Dude wrote a book and all hell broke loose.
(Don’t tell anyone that Lincoln and Adam Smith suggested that labor precedes capital. )
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Re: Cuban Uprising
Capitalism has literally allowed people to get out of poverty and into a better life. I can't imagine where I'd be, being the son of an immigrant and a mechanic in a working class family if America had one of these broke dick Communist/socialist systems Trip and klammy hype up so much. Thank God for capitalism and God bless America.UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:28 amYes capitalism has hurt people but it has also greatly improved the lives of people. It's intellectually dishonest to look at the US or the world in a vacuum and blame capitalism for peoples' woes without considering what their life would be like without capitalism. Yes there is a huge gap between the poor and the wealthy in the US but it could definitely be argued that the rising tide of capitalism has made the lives of the poor much, much better than they would have been without capitalism.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:21 am AZ, you're seeing or reading what you want to from me.
Marx and Engels (who are German btw) wrote about the effect of private capital on the working class in Europe. Capitalism at this point exists, albeit without a name, alongside monarchies and democracies.
Eventually their philosophy takes hold, sweeps throughout Europe and the world, and evolves in a million ways depending on each society. Like capitalism, the varieties of socialism lift tens of millions out of poverty. Some great things are done under those economies as well. However like all economic philosophies, many others are hurt finding themselves on the wrong side of it.
Each society and generation needs to nurture whatever economic system it has chosen to utilize to help as many people as possible. Otherwise I don't care if it's feudalism or capitalism or communism, it will eventually fail and be replaced.
Anyways, I wish the Cuban people the best whatever happens.
People are ambitious and will work to better their lives. Capitalism provides a mechanism that focuses that ambition in a way that has pushed innovation and improved the quality of life. Working for the government becomes much more attractive to those people under socialism/communism and innovation lags as a result.
Re: Cuban Uprising
No disagreement. I've already explained I'm a capitalist a million times before, but it needs to be reigned in. I'm not a believer of this free hand of the market stuff.UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:28 amYes capitalism has hurt people but it has also greatly improved the lives of people. It's intellectually dishonest to look at the US or the world in a vacuum and blame capitalism for peoples' woes without considering what their life would be like without capitalism. Yes there is a huge gap between the poor and the wealthy in the US but it could definitely be argued that the rising tide of capitalism has made the lives of the poor much, much better than they would have been without capitalism.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:21 am AZ, you're seeing or reading what you want to from me.
Marx and Engels (who are German btw) wrote about the effect of private capital on the working class in Europe. Capitalism at this point exists, albeit without a name, alongside monarchies and democracies.
Eventually their philosophy takes hold, sweeps throughout Europe and the world, and evolves in a million ways depending on each society. Like capitalism, the varieties of socialism lift tens of millions out of poverty. Some great things are done under those economies as well. However like all economic philosophies, many others are hurt finding themselves on the wrong side of it.
Each society and generation needs to nurture whatever economic system it has chosen to utilize to help as many people as possible. Otherwise I don't care if it's feudalism or capitalism or communism, it will eventually fail and be replaced.
Anyways, I wish the Cuban people the best whatever happens.
People are ambitious and will work to better their lives. Capitalism provides a mechanism that focuses that ambition in a way that has pushed innovation and improved the quality of life. Working for the government becomes much more attractive to those people under socialism/communism and innovation lags as a result.
Re: Cuban Uprising
It's the implementation of it that, IMO, has failed. From an individual / civil rights level, Socialism has failed. The hallmark of socialism, the USSR, began it's race to bottom in earnest following Glasnost!kalm wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:24 amIbanez wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:07 am
One thing that people tend to forget or just don't know is that Marx was putting forth a theory...an idea. Take all, some or none of it but his philosophies were just that. When put into practice we've seen theories prove themselves and disprove themselves. Adapt and try again.
We aren't the same capitalist country we were 40 or 50 years ago, we're changing (for better/worse is up to debate I guess.)
Dude wrote a book and all hell broke loose.
(Don’t tell anyone that Lincoln and Adam Smith suggested that labor precedes capital. )
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
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Re: Cuban Uprising
I'm not reading anything into anything. And please show me where, on the globe, where ANY variety of true socialism has lifted ANYONE out of poverty. There isn't a better place on the PLANET to be poor than the United States of America. Nowhere.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:21 am AZ, you're seeing or reading what you want to from me.
Marx and Engels (who are German btw) wrote about the effect of private capital on the working class in Europe. Capitalism at this point exists, albeit without a name, alongside monarchies and democracies.
Eventually their philosophy takes hold, sweeps throughout Europe and the world, and evolves in a million ways depending on each society. Like capitalism, the varieties of socialism lift tens of millions out of poverty. Some great things are done under those economies as well. However like all economic philosophies, many others are hurt finding themselves on the wrong side of it.
Each society and generation needs to nurture whatever economic system it has chosen to utilize to help as many people as possible. Otherwise I don't care if it's feudalism or capitalism or communism, it will eventually fail and be replaced.
Anyways, I wish the Cuban people the best whatever happens.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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Re: Cuban Uprising
There is literally NO aspect of the American capitalist system that has a "free hand". Millions and millions and millions of pages of regulation would say otherwise.∞∞∞ wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:37 amNo disagreement. I've already explained I'm a capitalist a million times before, but it needs to be reigned in. I'm not a believer of this free hand of the market stuff.UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:28 am
Yes capitalism has hurt people but it has also greatly improved the lives of people. It's intellectually dishonest to look at the US or the world in a vacuum and blame capitalism for peoples' woes without considering what their life would be like without capitalism. Yes there is a huge gap between the poor and the wealthy in the US but it could definitely be argued that the rising tide of capitalism has made the lives of the poor much, much better than they would have been without capitalism.
People are ambitious and will work to better their lives. Capitalism provides a mechanism that focuses that ambition in a way that has pushed innovation and improved the quality of life. Working for the government becomes much more attractive to those people under socialism/communism and innovation lags as a result.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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Re: Cuban Uprising
We simply have higher expectations for America than you.SDHornet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:36 amCapitalism has literally allowed people to get out of poverty and into a better life. I can't imagine where I'd be, being the son of an immigrant and a mechanic in a working class family if America had one of these broke dick Communist/socialist systems Trip and klammy hype up so much. Thank God for capitalism and God bless America.UNI88 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:28 am
Yes capitalism has hurt people but it has also greatly improved the lives of people. It's intellectually dishonest to look at the US or the world in a vacuum and blame capitalism for peoples' woes without considering what their life would be like without capitalism. Yes there is a huge gap between the poor and the wealthy in the US but it could definitely be argued that the rising tide of capitalism has made the lives of the poor much, much better than they would have been without capitalism.
People are ambitious and will work to better their lives. Capitalism provides a mechanism that focuses that ambition in a way that has pushed innovation and improved the quality of life. Working for the government becomes much more attractive to those people under socialism/communism and innovation lags as a result.
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Re: Cuban Uprising
It doesn't get any higher, bro. Unless you aspire for America to be Venezuela. Or Viet Nam. Or China. Or North Korea. Or Russia.kalm wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:17 amWe simply have higher expectations for America than you.SDHornet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:36 am
Capitalism has literally allowed people to get out of poverty and into a better life. I can't imagine where I'd be, being the son of an immigrant and a mechanic in a working class family if America had one of these broke dick Communist/socialist systems Trip and klammy hype up so much. Thank God for capitalism and God bless America.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
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Re: Cuban Uprising
FYPkalm wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:17 amWe simply have higher expectations for America than you and we're willing to bet the future prosperity of millions that we can do socialism better this time.SDHornet wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 10:36 am
Capitalism has literally allowed people to get out of poverty and into a better life. I can't imagine where I'd be, being the son of an immigrant and a mechanic in a working class family if America had one of these broke dick Communist/socialist systems Trip and klammy hype up so much. Thank God for capitalism and God bless America.
Being wrong about a topic is called post partisanism - kalm
Re: Cuban Uprising
Adam Smith is rolling in his grave right now.
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
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Re: Cuban Uprising
Even stipulating that Trip's statement is correct (which I'm not necessarily willing to do), it only proves there are a shitload of really stupid, gullible people on this rock.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Re: Cuban Uprising
duplicate post
Last edited by Ibanez on Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cuban Uprising
Like it or not, I would have to agree in part that the Communist Manifesto is one of the most influential books/pamphlets/documents in the past 500 or so years. Common Sense, The Wealth of Nations, 1984, The Rights of Man, Democracy in America, Critique of Pure Reason and On the Origin of Species are on the list for sure (at least they should be, IMO).
Turns out I might be a little gay. 89Hen 11/7/17
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Re: Cuban Uprising
King James BibleIbanez wrote: ↑Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:58 amLike it or not, I would have to agree in part that the Communist Manifesto is one of the most influential books/pamphlets/documents in the past 500 or so years. Common Sense, The Wealth of Nations, 1984, The Rights of Man, Democracy in America, Critique of Pure Reason and On the Origin of Species are on the list for sure (at least they should be, IMO).
Art of War
Unless you're specifically talking about political documents/influence....
Last edited by AZGrizFan on Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cuban Uprising
Define socialism...
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Re: Cuban Uprising
Here's the lib definition: clinging desperately to ANYTHING that even REMOTELY looks like socialism that even REMOTELY works.
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Re: Cuban Uprising
I was more curious about what nations had capitalism and now have a different economic system that has improved that country.Capitalism has failed before, leading nations to find alternative economic systems.
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Re: Cuban Uprising
So this is it? The pinnacle of American success is now? And it’s sustainable?
You clearly have less faith in America than I do.
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Re: Cuban Uprising
I'd also like a list of nations that TRIED communism, but then decided it wasn't for them and were allowed to go back to capitalism by the benevolent state.
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"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
Re: Cuban Uprising
No doubt important books, although I haven't read all. That said I'd argue On the Origin of Species is the only other that had a profound global effect. Even then, it was still in a limited scientific (and religious) way.
The social and political landscape drastically changed across the world with The Communist Manifesto (among other works of Marx).
The social and political landscape drastically changed across the world with The Communist Manifesto (among other works of Marx).
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Re: Cuban Uprising
Define lib. As in the liberal ideals this nation was founded on?
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Re: Cuban Uprising
Not even remotely what I said. Try again.
"Ah fuck. You are right." KYJelly, 11/6/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12
"The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam." Barack Obama, 9/25/12