Worst President Ever

[kalm]

If that is supposed to suggest that he solved the Middle East problem, that he created record jobs, or that he CREATED record low unemployment your premises are false. He did not do anything of those things. The Middle East problem is not solved. The rate of job creation during Obama's second term was higher than the rate of job creation during Trump's first three years before COVID. The trend towards declining unemployment was obviously in place before he took office. He didn't "create" anything. He just jumped into the captain's chair and continued to sail the ship until a storm hit. And when the storm hit he totally botched the situation.

I swear, you react like frog legs on a lightening rod. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

You make me think of a fellow Vandal....

[∞∞∞]

@UNI

The large deficit and debt accumulated in Obama's first term was primarily on the back of the Economic Stimulus Act (signed by Bush, split Congress). And to be fair, it was necessary even though more money should have gone to regular Americans instead of banks and corporations.

Here's the deficit as a percent of GDP over time, from the CBO:
https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2020-0 ... utlook.pdf

[UNI88]

@UNI

The large deficit and debt accumulated in Obama's first term was primarily on the back of the Economic Stimulus Act (signed by Bush, split Congress). And to be fair, it was necessary even though more money should have gone to regular Americans instead of banks and corporations.

Here's the deficit as a percent of GDP over time, from the CBO:
https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2020-0 ... utlook.pdf

So Obama didn't necessarily reduce the deficit, he reduced the deficit as a percentage of GDP.

If I make $100,000/year and spend $110,000/year my deficit is $10,000 or 10% of my income. If I get a raise and make $120,000/year and spend $131,000/year my deficit is $11,000/year or 9.2% of my income. I shrank my deficit as a percentage of my income but my deficit is actually greater than it was before and my total debt is growing.

[SDHornet]

Deficit spending during a crisis is exactly what you're supposed to do. You raise taxes or reduce spending during the good times because eventually the bad times happen again. Basic economics, not whatever voodoo economics conks like to espouse.

I don't disagree with this. But this increase in gubmint spending is not just a conk problem.

And look at my post history, I've always cared about it.

Also if Trump handled the pandemic correctly, didn't downplay things, if all Americans wore masks, didn't have large indoor gatherings, and generally gave a sh*t about each other, we wouldn't be in as large of an economic mess.

Not true. We know lockdowns don't work and that masks (at least the cloth ones) do jack shit in reducing the spread. Not going to expand much here as a lot of this has been debunked in the China Virus thread.

400K+ dead also means we've lost millions of years of productivity and taxable income. Immigration is the only way to make up for lost productivity...so open up the borders baby! Also medical spending has ballooned, infrastructure spending is down, our kids aren't getting proper schooling, unemployment is sky high, small businesses are going under...all which compound on an already bad economic situation.

Most of the folks that died are well past retirement age. Not buying the "we need to replace them with immigrants" nonsense. Increasing immigration while unemployment is "sky high"? Yeah that's a fucking stupid move right there.

So yeah, if from the onset Trump and friends said "wear a mask", "be distant around people", "don't gather together", "please take it seriously", we wouldn't have a large swath of the population dragging our economy under because they think they're smarter than science. Instead we got some stupid guy telling his sheep to do whatever they want while holding rallies with thousands of people.

Then he gets the virus himself, receives the best medical and experimental treatments in the world, and says "see it's no biggie."

Conks and their denial of reality single-handily destroyed the economy.

Again, see the China Virus thread on how well the "experts" handled messaging when the China Virus broke out. First no masks needed, then masks, then no masks again, now 2+ masks are better. The comparison between CA and FL is proof enough that these lockdown policies don't work.

We were sold that Biden* had a plan to deal with the China Virus. Turns out it is nothing more than just a continuation of what was already being done by Trump.

[kalm]

Deficit spending during a crisis is exactly what you're supposed to do. You raise taxes or reduce spending during the good times because eventually the bad times happen again. Basic economics, not whatever voodoo economics conks like to espouse.

I don't disagree with this. But this increase in gubmint spending is not just a conk problem.

And look at my post history, I've always cared about it.

Also if Trump handled the pandemic correctly, didn't downplay things, if all Americans wore masks, didn't have large indoor gatherings, and generally gave a sh*t about each other, we wouldn't be in as large of an economic mess.

Not true. We know lockdowns don't work and that masks (at least the cloth ones) do jack shit in reducing the spread. Not going to expand much here as a lot of this has been debunked in the China Virus thread.

400K+ dead also means we've lost millions of years of productivity and taxable income. Immigration is the only way to make up for lost productivity...so open up the borders baby! Also medical spending has ballooned, infrastructure spending is down, our kids aren't getting proper schooling, unemployment is sky high, small businesses are going under...all which compound on an already bad economic situation.

Most of the folks that died are well past retirement age. Not buying the "we need to replace them with immigrants" nonsense. Increasing immigration while unemployment is "sky high"? Yeah that's a fucking stupid move right there.

So yeah, if from the onset Trump and friends said "wear a mask", "be distant around people", "don't gather together", "please take it seriously", we wouldn't have a large swath of the population dragging our economy under because they think they're smarter than science. Instead we got some stupid guy telling his sheep to do whatever they want while holding rallies with thousands of people.

Then he gets the virus himself, receives the best medical and experimental treatments in the world, and says "see it's no biggie."

Conks and their denial of reality single-handily destroyed the economy.

Again, see the China Virus thread on how well the "experts" handled messaging when the China Virus broke out. First no masks needed, then masks, then no masks again, now 2+ masks are better. The comparison between CA and FL is proof enough that these lockdown policies don't work.

We were sold that Biden* had a plan to deal with the China Virus. Turns out it is nothing more than just a continuation of what was already being done by Trump.

The economics of lockdowns is interesting. Social distancing and masks help with the spread. That’s not remotely debatable. Whether lockdowns (especially shorter, more targeted) lead to a quicker recovery is.

The failure in moving past the pandemic lies partly in a lack of government relief and stimulus.

Yet the analysis finds that a balance can be achieved in protecting public health while preventing a protracted economic decline. Lockdowns impose short-term costs but may lead to a faster economic recovery as they lower infections and thus the extent of voluntary social distancing. Examining the medium-term effects of lockdowns as well as the robustness of our findings is an important area for future research as the pandemic evolves and more data become available.

The large contribution of voluntary social distancing in reducing mobility and job postings should warn policymakers against lifting lockdowns when infections are still elevated in the hope of jumpstarting economic activity. Addressing the health risks appears to be a pre-condition to allow for a strong and sustained economic recovery.

In this regard, the analysis reveals that lockdowns can substantially reduce infections. The effects are particularly strong if lockdowns are adopted early in a country’s epidemic. The bottom chart below shows that countries that adopted lockdowns when COVID-19 cases were still low experienced much better epidemiological outcomes relative to countries that intervened when cases were already high. The chapter also documents that lockdowns must be sufficiently strict to curb infections, thus suggesting that stringent and short-lived lockdowns could be preferable to mild and prolonged measures.

https://blogs.imf.org/2020/10/08/covids ... he-crisis/

[∞∞∞]

I didn't mention lockdowns.

I agree the economic benefits of lockdowns are still up in the air, but lockdowns do work when they're not half-ass measures. No state in the US has actually had a "lockdown" despite whatever we want to call them. Other nations had real ones and the data is conclusive.

And it makes sense. No one seeing each other means the virus can't spread as quickly.

Anyways I was talking about Americans being so pussified that they can't go two holidays alone, can't go a few months without drinking at a crowded place, or bitching about wearing a 1oz piece of cloth on their face.

[kalm]

I didn't mention lockdowns.

I agree the economic benefits of lockdowns are still up in the air, but lockdowns do work when they're not half-ass measures. No state in the US has actually had a "lockdown" despite whatever we want to call them. Other nations had real ones and the data is conclusive.

And it makes sense. No one seeing each other means the virus can't spread as quickly.

Anyways I was talking about Americans being so pussified that they can't go two holidays alone, can't go a few months without drinking at a crowded place, or bitching about wearing a 1oz piece of cloth on their face.

Exactly. And that pussifification is projected as strength.

If government had made financial guarantees that at least some non-essential locked down businesses (if not all) were going to be propped up until the numbers were low enough we’d have even less to bitch about.

Skipping thanksgiving and trivia night at the bar for a year is doable, especially if the needy are taken care of.

[89Hen]

Americans being so pussified that they can't go two holidays alone, can't go a few months without drinking at a crowded place...

[SDHornet]

I didn't mention lockdowns.

I agree the economic benefits of lockdowns are still up in the air, but lockdowns do work when they're not half-ass measures. No state in the US has actually had a "lockdown" despite whatever we want to call them. Other nations had real ones and the data is conclusive.

And it makes sense. No one seeing each other means the virus can't spread as quickly.

Anyways I was talking about Americans being so pussified that they can't go two holidays alone, can't go a few months without drinking at a crowded place, or bitching about wearing a 1oz piece of cloth on their face.

Agreed with no true lockdowns. The gubmit made exceptions for big box stores that had plenty of large groups of people so it was obvious bullshit from the start. Also a "true" lockdown would be un-constitutional so there's that. But it's noted that you hate freedoms so much. You should consider that those at risk have the freedom to keep their asses home and let the MFers with shit to do go about their business.

[AZGrizFan]

I swear, you react like frog legs on a lightening rod. Like shooting fish in a barrel.

You make me think of a fellow Vandal....

Love him.

[89Hen]

No state in the US has actually had a "lockdown" despite whatever we want to call them. Other nations had real ones and the data is conclusive.

Like Belgium? #3 in the world for deaths per population.

[∞∞∞]

No state in the US has actually had a "lockdown" despite whatever we want to call them. Other nations had real ones and the data is conclusive.

Like Belgium? #3 in the world for deaths per population.

You want to choose Belgium as the country to prove lockdowns don't work?

Red is when it started:

[89Hen]

Red is when it started:

From June 1 to October 1 (four months) they had 636 deaths. From October 1 to now (four months) they've had 11,200.

Lockdowns probably work. At what cost?

We could stop all auto accident deaths if we just banned autos.

[AZGrizFan]

Like Belgium? #3 in the world for deaths per population.

You want to choose Belgium as the country to prove lockdowns don't work?

Red is when it started:

How do you explain the first six months, with no lockdown then?

[∞∞∞]

Red is when it started:

From June 1 to October 1 (four months) they had 636 deaths. From October 1 to now (four months) they've had 11,200.

Lockdowns probably work. At what cost?

Everything you say continues to prove my point.

The Belgians had tight restrictions when the pandemic started and got ahead of it early. Again, you don't need a lockdown to make things work but your population still needs to be smart about it. At the end of summer 2020, they lifted most restriction and because viruses abhor a vacuum, things spiraled way out of control. Lockdown goes into effect and deaths plummet again, but you're no longer ahead of the virus anymore.

I'm not advocating for lockdowns, but they do work. Literally any nation which did it proves this.

What I'm advocating for is Americans being smart, but the genie has been out of the bottle for months now. At this point, the vaccine (thanks science!) is going to be the one that helps the most as it's clear many Americans only give a sh*t about themselves.

Honestly the pandemic really showed me was how sorry ass of a population we have. China might as well just launch an invasion and take over because I'm 100% positive half of America would capitulate. God help us if there's ever a major world conflict.

[89Hen]

What I'm advocating for is Americans being smart

You've seen The Bachelor and been to a Walmart?

[∞∞∞]

What I'm advocating for is Americans being smart

You've seen The Bachelor and been to a Walmart?

[AZGrizFan]

What I'm advocating for is Americans being smart

You've seen The Bachelor and been to a Walmart?

No need to narrow it down to The Bachelor....or Walmart, for that matter.

[kalm]

What I'm advocating for is Americans being smart

You've seen The Bachelor and been to a Walmart?

[houndawg]

It won't be easy for Biden to win over a crowd whose political IQ is at the level of shitting on the Capitol floor and wiping it on the walls.

Just think if they hadn't stopped to shit on the floors and wipe it on the walls - Mike Pence might not have had time to escape his planned lynching...

Yes, you’re right. 100% of the “crowd” shit on the floor and wiped it on the walls. There’s so much shit they may NEVER get it all off the walls. Literally hundreds of thousands of people shitting on the floor and wiping it on the walls.

Oh, wait. That’s San Francisco. In the Capitol building it was ONE person.

Now you're just being a sore loser

Although it would have been interesting if they'd paraded Pence in front of the cameras wearing the zip ties that were waitung for him