2020 Democratic Nomination Process Mega-thread

[kalm]

Resorting to memes this soon?

Kalm wins.............again!

Rather be the fisherman than the fish.

Yeah ok...you knew all along and secretly agreed.

[89Hen]

Two reports on medical wait times released last week underscore three key points that the more than one million Canadians waiting for medically necessary treatment already know from often bitter experience.

First, that access to a waiting list for health care is not health care.

Second, that waiting for medically necessary treatment imposes a financial burden on patients in addition to physical and psychological ones.

Third, that excessive wait times for medically necessary treatment have become a permanent feature of Canada’s health care system.

https://torontosun.com/opinion/editoria ... acceptable

[Skjellyfetti]

Yeah, our healthcare system has no financial burdens. Wake up, Canadians!!

[89Hen]

Yeah, our healthcare system has no financial burdens. Wake up, Canadians!!

You missed the point, but thanks for jumping in the middle.

[93henfan]

[UNI88]

Yeah, our healthcare system has no financial burdens. Wake up, Canadians!!

Our healthcare system is not perfect but Medicare For All is not some panacea that will fix those problems without bringing its own set of problems.

How Bernie, Fauxahontas and others are selling Medicare For All is not that different from how Trump sold his tax cut.

[93henfan]

There's nothing like getting cancer treatment at a world-class research hospital to validate the power of private insurance.

I somehow doubt it would have gone so smoothly or expediently on Medicare for All.

[kalm]

There's nothing like getting cancer treatment at a world-class research hospital to validate the power of private insurance.

I somehow doubt it would have gone so smoothly or expediently on Medicare for All.

Right. Because you have kickass insurance. So do I. Not everyone does.

[AZGrizFan]

There's nothing like getting cancer treatment at a world-class research hospital to validate the power of private insurance.

I somehow doubt it would have gone so smoothly or expediently on Medicare for All.

Right. Because you have kickass insurance. So do I. Not everyone does.

Why don’t they just go sign up for Obamacare?

[UNI88]

Right. Because you have kickass insurance. So do I. Not everyone does.

Why don’t they just go sign up for Obamacare?

That sh!t's expensive. The best price for insurance in the marketplace for me was about $550/month with a $6,000 deductible. I'm on my ex's policy under COBRA for the same price with a $2,000 deductible. I can stay on COBRA for 36 months total before I get fvcked in the ass. Despite that, I am NOT an advocate for Medicare for All.

[Skjellyfetti]

There's nothing like getting cancer treatment at a world-class research hospital to validate the power of private insurance.

I somehow doubt it would have gone so smoothly or expediently on Medicare for All.

Does the world class cancer hospital not treat people on Medicare?

[SDHornet]

Bloomberg... I don't know how he can stay in after that beating.

What exactly was the "beating" that he took? The Pocahontas feminazi act?......pfft. People don't give a shit about that. We'd all look like Bloomberg did last night with crazies attacking us left & right.

He apologized for his past actions. If there is anything anyone has learned from Trump is to never apologize, specially to the SJW/femenazi crowd.

Btw, kudos to your sane posting about the debate. Probably the most sensible posts from you I have ever seen.

[SDHornet]

There's nothing like getting cancer treatment at a world-class research hospital to validate the power of private insurance.

I somehow doubt it would have gone so smoothly or expediently on Medicare for All.

Pft, you work for the government and know it would be way better and more efficient than anything the public sector could provide.

[HI54UNI]

Why don’t they just go sign up for Obamacare?

That sh!t's expensive. The best price for insurance in the marketplace for me was about $550/month with a $6,000 deductible. I'm on my ex's policy under COBRA for the same price with a $2,000 deductible. I can stay on COBRA for 36 months total before I get fvcked in the ass. Despite that, I am NOT an advocate for Medicare for All.

This.

Our work plan is grandmothered in for Obamacare. If we had to switch to a somewhat comparable ACA compliant plan our premium cost would go up $700/month per family policy. Plus the co-pay increases, prescription co-pay increases,co-insurance would increase from 10% to 20% and the out of pocket max increases from $4,000 to $10,000.

This is the big secret about Obamacare that most people don't understand. The feds keep granting waivers to let people stay on their grandmothered plans. Without the waivers everyone would have seen massive premium increases and shittier coverage.

Medicare doesn't pay shit to rural hospitals and providers. My wife works in a rural hospital and Medicare doesn't even pay them 100% of their costs for things like lab tests. The local docs can do basic lab tests and it all gets wrapped into your doctor visit cost and co-pay. But if you're on Medicare they send you to the hospital for lab tests because the docs don't want to lose money doing the testing. So instead the hospital gets to lose the money. How long is that sustainable for the rural hospitals?

[AZGrizFan]

That sh!t's expensive. The best price for insurance in the marketplace for me was about $550/month with a $6,000 deductible. I'm on my ex's policy under COBRA for the same price with a $2,000 deductible. I can stay on COBRA for 36 months total before I get fvcked in the ass. Despite that, I am NOT an advocate for Medicare for All.

This.

Our work plan is grandmothered in for Obamacare. If we had to switch to a somewhat comparable ACA compliant plan our premium cost would go up $700/month per family policy. Plus the co-pay increases, prescription co-pay increases,co-insurance would increase from 10% to 20% and the out of pocket max increases from $4,000 to $10,000.

This is the big secret about Obamacare that most people don't understand. The feds keep granting waivers to let people stay on their grandmothered plans. Without the waivers everyone would have seen massive premium increases and shittier coverage.

Medicare doesn't pay shit to rural hospitals and providers. My wife works in a rural hospital and Medicare doesn't even pay them 100% of their costs for things like lab tests. The local docs can do basic lab tests and it all gets wrapped into your doctor visit cost and co-pay. But if you're on Medicare they send you to the hospital for lab tests because the docs don't want to lose money doing the testing. So instead the hospital gets to lose the money. How long is that sustainable for the rural hospitals?

My question was in jest. Obamacare is a shit sandwich, plain and simple. And Medicare ain't much better. And THOSE are the best programs our benevolent government can come up with.

Thanks Klammy, but I'll keep my private plan. The LAST thing I want to trust to my government is my health.

[mainejeff]

Just copy the healthcare plan of Congress.

[kalm]

This.

Our work plan is grandmothered in for Obamacare. If we had to switch to a somewhat comparable ACA compliant plan our premium cost would go up $700/month per family policy. Plus the co-pay increases, prescription co-pay increases,co-insurance would increase from 10% to 20% and the out of pocket max increases from $4,000 to $10,000.

This is the big secret about Obamacare that most people don't understand. The feds keep granting waivers to let people stay on their grandmothered plans. Without the waivers everyone would have seen massive premium increases and shittier coverage.

Medicare doesn't pay shit to rural hospitals and providers. My wife works in a rural hospital and Medicare doesn't even pay them 100% of their costs for things like lab tests. The local docs can do basic lab tests and it all gets wrapped into your doctor visit cost and co-pay. But if you're on Medicare they send you to the hospital for lab tests because the docs don't want to lose money doing the testing. So instead the hospital gets to lose the money. How long is that sustainable for the rural hospitals?

My question was in jest. Obamacare is a shit sandwich, plain and simple. And Medicare ain't much better. And THOSE are the best programs our benevolent government can come up with.

Thanks Klammy, but I'll keep my private plan. The LAST thing I want to trust to my government is my health.

Nothing wrong with the system if you can afford a good private plan like I have, or your employer covers it, or you don’t get sick.

[UNI88]

My question was in jest. Obamacare is a shit sandwich, plain and simple. And Medicare ain't much better. And THOSE are the best programs our benevolent government can come up with.

Thanks Klammy, but I'll keep my private plan. The LAST thing I want to trust to my government is my health.

Nothing wrong with the system if you can afford a good private plan like I have, or your employer covers it, or you don’t get sick.

If you want to reduce costs, tort reform should be a part of the discussion.

And why not make pricing more transparent so that people can become better consumers of healthcare.

And look at Fiver's post on medicare and rural hospitals. Medicare for all might provide coverage but it also might drive providers and hospitals out and create healthcare deserts where you can't find a provider or hospital within a reasonable distance.

This is not as simple as we give Medicare to everyone (or some other type of universal coverage) and nothing else changes. There will be unintended consequences many of which are predictable but are being ignored by proponents.

[kalm]

Nothing wrong with the system if you can afford a good private plan like I have, or your employer covers it, or you don’t get sick.

If you want to reduce costs, tort reform should be a part of the discussion.

And why not make pricing more transparent so that people can become better consumers of healthcare.

And look at Fiver's post on medicare and rural hospitals. Medicare for all might provide coverage but it also might drive providers and hospitals out and create healthcare deserts where you can't find a provider or hospital within a reasonable distance.

This is not as simple as we give Medicare to everyone (or some other type of universal coverage) and nothing else changes. There will be unintended consequences many of which are predictable but are being ignored by proponents.

Valid points. Yet they somehow find a way to spend half for healthcare...even in Lapland.

[UNI88]

If you want to reduce costs, tort reform should be a part of the discussion.

And why not make pricing more transparent so that people can become better consumers of healthcare.

And look at Fiver's post on medicare and rural hospitals. Medicare for all might provide coverage but it also might drive providers and hospitals out and create healthcare deserts where you can't find a provider or hospital within a reasonable distance.

This is not as simple as we give Medicare to everyone (or some other type of universal coverage) and nothing else changes. There will be unintended consequences many of which are predictable but are being ignored by proponents.

Valid points. Yet they somehow find a way to spend half for healthcare...even in Lapland.

Half of what? Per person?

Why don't you or Jelly find a graphic that breaks out and compares our healthcare expenditures to those in Lapland, Canada, Britain, etc. so we can see where we're spending more money.

[kalm]

Valid points. Yet they somehow find a way to spend half for healthcare...even in Lapland.

Half of what? Per person?

Why don't you or Jelly find a graphic that breaks out and compares our healthcare expenditures to those in Lapland, Canada, Britain, etc. so we can see where we're spending more money.

I will when I get some time. Last time I looked, we were spending just shy of twice of what France was spending.

And yes, per person annual expenditures.

[89Hen]

Yeah, our healthcare system has no financial burdens. Wake up, Canadians!!

Our healthcare system is not perfect but Medicare For All is not some panacea that will fix those problems without bringing its own set of problems.

How Bernie, Fauxahontas and others are selling Medicare For All is not that different from how Trump sold his tax cut.

88 gets it

[89Hen]

There's nothing like getting cancer treatment at a world-class research hospital to validate the power of private insurance.

I somehow doubt it would have gone so smoothly or expediently on Medicare for All.

Right. Because you have kickass insurance. So do I. Not everyone does.

The exact question Mrs89 asked me last night. She said regardless of the FACT that Bernie can't pay for his plan, does he or anyone who supports him really believe we're better off if folks who have great insurance have to give that up to get mediocre insurance for everyone? Fuck that.

[UNI88]

Half of what? Per person?

Why don't you or Jelly find a graphic that breaks out and compares our healthcare expenditures to those in Lapland, Canada, Britain, etc. so we can see where we're spending more money.

I will when I get some time. Last time I looked, we were spending just shy of twice of what France was spending.

And yes, per person annual expenditures.

I don't doubt that we're spending close to double per person compared to other countries. What are we spending more on is an important element to understanding and managing those costs. I wonder about costs related to:
- Liability insurance.
- Less than necessary treatments that are ordered so that doctor's can reduce liability.
- Unnecessary doctor/ER visits because people run to doctor at the drop of a hat.
- ER visits because I believe hospitals are more limited than doctors in turning away the uninsured.
- Advertising/promotion of drugs and other healthcare services.
- R&D - are we subsidizing drug and other research that benefit other countries?

Bernie, Fauxahontas and others need to address the issues/concerns with Medicare For All:
- Where will the money really come from?
- What about the long wait times for treatments in countries with universal care?
- How will existing coverage be handled? What about union plans? Will there be a double standard where Congress and union plans are exempted but other employer plans aren't?

I'm sure I've numerous costs and issues/concerns.

[AZGrizFan]

My sister (who, interestingly worked in/for Medicare for the last 15 years before retirement) just returned from the Bahamas where she fell and broke her wrist in 3 places. She's on Medicare now. Her doctor told her she should have had it fixed in the Bahamas. According to him: better coverage, lower cost, better pain management allowances, faster recovery.

My MIL fell and broke her wrist 3 years ago while in Oregon. Doctor (again, Medicare) was such a quack he fucked it up so bad they had to REBREAK the wrist when she got back to Arizona so that it would set properly.

THAT'S Medicare.

No thanks.